Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Xenon lamps, duck and cover!!

This is topic Xenon lamps, duck and cover!! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Dominique Replogle (Member # 2387) on 04-28-2004, 04:27 PM:

People are talking about four and five k lamps blowing. We work with a pair of 15 k. I have a feeling that if one of these blow while I am working that it will be my last day and a few years down the road my kids will be calling some other guy daddy.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-28-2004, 04:35 PM:

Dominique,
Just wear the bullett proof vest and face shield all the time you're working there.... Its in the parts cabinet down the hall next to the bathroom. It won't protect the bodys more important parts so all you really have to worry about it your voice going up a couple of octaves if one lets go.... [uhoh]

Really, the lamphouse cover on those lamps will easily stop any glass fragments that may be expelled. It takes three people just to safely lift the cover off the lamphouse itself. I'd be far more concerned about that 375 amps passing through that too small of DC cabling that was installed there and the ensuing fire that might erupt from it. But hey you're in Utah County and I'm not too sure they really have any actual codes they go by down there. Ever feel how hot the DC conduits get in the electric room after about 10 hours of operation? Does Thanksgiving Point have their own Fire Department like Skywalker Ranch does?

Mark

Posted by Dominique Replogle (Member # 2387) on 04-28-2004, 05:02 PM:

Mark,

I have indeed felt those pipes. They are hot as hell. Now we leave the tops open and have an a/c unit in there. That has helped a lot to cool them down. As for the lamp, I will purchase a Xenon proof codpeice today my friend.

Dom

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 04-29-2004, 01:49 AM:

Does anyone know if there is a drastic change in PSI between the different size bulbs?

Even if the bigger bulbs are under more pressure, the envelope is still made of the same density quartz and therefore would not do much more damage than say a 2k bulb.

There was an episode of mythbusters where they built a pneumatic chicken gun and fired frozen chickens out of it. There was no direct relation to velocity and the PSI that the chickens were launched at.

Im not trying to say that they are toys, but it is getting tiresome to hear people talk like they have the destructive power of a hydrogen bomb.

Posted by Dennis J. Losco (Member # 1374) on 04-29-2004, 07:45 AM:

Chris, the pressure inside each size lamp may not be incredibly different, but that isn't what is causing the damage.
Force = pressure x area.
The square area of a 4k bulb is about double that of a 2k bulb. So even though pressure in each lamp may be close the force of a 4k bulb will be twice of a 2k. Plus the quartz mass is much higher in a 4k bulb than in a 2k bulb.

Never under-estimate what these lamps can do! We had a 10k lamp in test and our cooling system failed. The lamp overheated and exploded. The case was made of .090 aluminum and the quartz from the exploding lamp basically blew through it.

Also occasionally you have an employee drop a bulb while in production. We will find quartz pieces 80 feet from were it exploded.

Luckily this does not happen often.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-29-2004, 08:34 AM:

The bottom line is to ALWAYS wear protective gear, and handle lamps safely. Always destroy lamps safely before discarding in the trash.

Here is what NASA does:

http://osat-ext.grc.nasa.gov/gso/manual/chapter_26.pdf

Posted by Dominique Replogle (Member # 2387) on 04-29-2004, 06:55 PM:

what about the returns you get on used bulbs. As long as they have not gone black your are o.k. are you not safe then? I want to know.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-29-2004, 09:06 PM:

If returning used lamps for warantee credit, use the same protective packaging and labeling they were shipped to you with. If the lamp is being discarded, destroy it, and protect the garbage handlers from the quartz shards.

Posted by Dennis J. Losco (Member # 1374) on 04-30-2004, 07:36 AM:

Always return a lamp in the same packaging it was received in. All manufacturers have gone through the ropes in how to ship these lamps. If you return a lamp improperly you are putting everybody who handles the lamp at risk of injury. Once a manufacturer receives the lamp it will be inspected and if needed, disposed of properly.

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 04-30-2004, 10:16 AM:

Guys--

What is being said here is NO bullshit. Xenon safety cannot be
taken lightly. I walked into a theatre lobby one night about
eight years ago where staff (kids) were playing with two lamps
(out if their protective covers). Upon entering the theatre I
heard a loud Ka-Pow coming from the lobby. I went back into
the lobby to find one of the kids with a face full of quartz
glass bleeding profusley all over the place. Moral of this:
Xenon lamps ARE NOT playtoys. They are to be treated with
respect... nothing more, nothing less.

fjn
Local 294 Ret

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-30-2004, 02:01 PM:

Y'Know, I've said several times that xenons are nothing to get worried about but THEY ARE NOTHING TO BE TRIFLED WITH, EITHER!

I could never walk past a bunch of people playing with a xenon lamp like that. Stranger or not, I would have stopped an hollered at them right then and there!

I have had a couple of kids, here and there, working in the booth who fucked around with xenons when they shouldn't have been. On each occasion I took them out back and busted one inside the dumpster while they watched. The response I get is always, "Holy Shit!!" Once they see (and hear) a xenon lamp explode they get the idea real quick!

When a xenon lamp is handled safely, you have nothing to worry about in the world. (But then again, I sleep with a loaded 12 Ga. shotgun under my bed! [Wink]

)

Posted by Dominique Replogle (Member # 2387) on 05-01-2004, 08:25 PM:

Randy,

You have smashed your bulbs? Do you get a return credit for your expired ones. It may be that we do just because of the particular lamps we use. I don't know, forgive me if I am just new to the industry and I am clueless.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-01-2004, 10:23 PM:

Do any manufacturers accept returns of used lamps (maybe the larger ones) that are beyond the warantee hours? Is there any recycling market for the used tungsten electrodes?

We've always destroyed and discarded the lamps we use. Many of the labs in Kodak have special containers for discarding broken laboratory glass, so that's where the quartz goes.

Posted by Dominique Replogle (Member # 2387) on 05-01-2004, 10:33 PM:

Yes John. Ushio gives us a credit on them when we send them after they are used up. I am not sure what the amount is but I can find out from the museum director if you want.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-01-2004, 10:39 PM:

For yours, I don't know. When I worked in the megaplexes it went like this:

If a xenon expired while still under warranty we documented the events surrounding the incident and save the lamp. (All the vital statistics, etc.)
A claim would be made to the manufacturer for reimbursmet. We sent a message to our purchasing office. They would forward the claim to the mfg.
Most often, the manufacturer will want to inspect the lamp before paying the claim. (> 90% of the time.) Purchasing would send us a note saying where to send it.
From there on, the matter was handled by the main office. I'm assuming things were done this way so that any/all claims could be handled in batches instead of piecemeal.
If the manufacturer didn't want the lamp back it was disposed of.

If a xenon expired outside of warranty it was trashed with no claim. At my theater, accurate records were kept of each xenon's history. They were changed out regularly at warranty + 25%. (As decreed by the home office.)

If a xenon was changed out during routine maintanence without expiring, they were inspected to see if they had any life left in them at all. The best one or two of each type were kept on the shelf as emergency spares. The crappiest ones or the ones that didn't have any life left in them were disposed of.

When new shipments of xenons were received, they were put on the shelf and any extra spares were disposed of. This way we were sure to have at least one usable lamp on hand in the case of a catastrophe. I don't think we ever used an emergency spare but we kept them on hand because you never know what could happen.

If you have an incredible string of bad luck it is conceivable that you could go through your stock of lamps in a short period of time before the Purchasing department can order you some more.

It follows the old saying: "Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best." [Big Grin]

Posted by Dennis J. Losco (Member # 1374) on 05-03-2004, 07:48 AM:

John asked - """Do any manufacturers accept returns of used lamps (maybe the larger ones) that are beyond the warantee hours? Is there any recycling market for the used tungsten electrodes?"""

Superior will take back any lamp it manufactures.

On its 12 and 15kw lamps a $100.00 credit will be applied to the customers account.

On air cooled lamps, customers can return any Superior or MIT branded lamp for disposal at no charge!

Both styles of lamps needed to be returned Pre-paid.

The tungsten electrodes in a xenon lamp can not be used for recycling. The electrodes are doped with various materials, so we have to go through en enviromental company for proper disposal.

Regarding any waranty claims: the warranty claim sheet must be filled out along with a description of the failure. Most claims will be processed in a week, and a new replacement lamp can be shipped before a lamp is evaluated, if needed.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-03-2004, 08:25 AM:

How much protection does the plastic snap on cover or the tie on sleeve offer in an explosion?

Posted by Dennis J. Losco (Member # 1374) on 05-03-2004, 09:56 AM:

Superior uses the vinyl/plastic wrap and has found it safe in handling of xenon lamps. Along with intensive in-house testing, NASA has tested approved this protectie wrap in the handling our 20,000 and 32,000 watt lamps. All major carriers have also accpeted this protective wrap for the shipping of lamps from 150 watt to 32,000 watt.

We have found that with the vinyl wrap projectionists can install a lamp with the wrap on and then easlily untie the two stings for easy removal.