Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Van Helsing print sets off

This is topic Van Helsing print sets off in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 05-11-2004, 03:21 AM:

My Van Helsing print sets off so much yellow dust in projector, that i'm considering c/o run instead of platter. Re-focusing is neccessarely several times during a run. OK, I still don't have the Kelmar and the Film Guard, but only a couple of PTRs, which become absolute fury within the first 5 minutes of a run. This big build-up of dust is seen before, but not often - I don't remember the titles...
Can this be a special cheep kind of print ? The number of prints in Denmark is so big, that it looks like someone has given UIP an offer, they couldn't refuse...

per

Posted by John Foley (Member # 1183) on 05-11-2004, 12:43 PM:

My van helsing print has no dusting or focus issues. We do use film guard, which helps alot.

Will this print have similar problems in another auditorium?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2004, 12:48 PM:

Sometimes overseas prints may be printed on a different film stock. Don't know if this is the case here. AFAIK, US prints were on Kodak film.

Posted by Chris Rhode (Member # 448) on 05-11-2004, 01:55 PM:

Our prints of Van Helsing don't have any problems with shedding at all. We just have sound issues (that or really sensitive customers..) [Big Grin]

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 05-11-2004, 01:59 PM:

We've had major focus issues. Every show, we have to refocus. I checked our main film gate because that use to be an old problem on this projector but it seemed fine. Any pointers to what could cause out of focus picture every show?

AJG

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 05-11-2004, 02:30 PM:

This was allmost too much for my eyes - my God, those id-numbers are small - and painted in sdds-green, too. -As far as I can get it, it says:

2382 515 115 1 36 KODA.K 14 2004 A

Does this give any explanation ?

p.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2004, 02:36 PM:

It's Kodak, likely Kodak VISION Color Print Film 2383.

Can you collect the "yellow dust" and provide it to your local Kodak representative in a small clean plastic bag for analysis?:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/order/offices2.shtml#denmark

Film debris from projector abrasion is usually pure white (base side scuffing) or magenta (emulsion side scuffing). Yellow is not common.

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 05-11-2004, 06:27 PM:

You could also spray some holy water on the print or drive a stake through each reel's core. If the print crumbles to dust, it was possessed and you should mail the ashes to John P who will take care of it (don't ask how!). [Smile]

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 05-11-2004, 06:40 PM:

Mr. P.: I will be happy to help entertaining Your danish collegue - maybe even c.c. You, if bags are available.

Christian: Holy water will be a problem, as the DP70's water drainpot is all dry right now. I may be filled after running "Braveheart in Bethlehem", but Mr Gibson's film will not arrive until Herr Van H has risen from the krypt and left the building ! For the local "Passion" run, I have the deal on land: Denmark's only remaining print of "Life of Brian" will be here as well. -But that's another story !

Per

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2004, 07:22 PM:

The small plastic "sandwich" bags used for food storage are fine for collecting any debris. Or a small clean vial or bottle could be used.

Can you see any area of the print that is obviously being scuffed? Emulsion side or back side? Any nicking of perforations or edges?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-11-2004, 09:43 PM:

Our print is beautiful... well, except for a studio splice just after the credits start... but that's ok there! [Razz]

Dolby and DTS mixes both fine... creative use of surrounds. No operational problems with the print.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 05-12-2004, 10:00 AM:

I've seen this yellow dust, too on different prints. Not in the projector, but on the cleaning pads after we run the used prints through them. (We build onto 6,000's, and run it through the Kelmar cleaner at the bench when rewinding) It mostly shows up on the non-soundtrack side, and looks almost "cakey" like flour.
More of a golden color like mailing envelopes than yellow.
I'm curious what would cause this too.
It's come off various prints, Kodak and Fuji stock.

=TMP=

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-13-2004, 01:59 PM:

Sometimes excessive edgewax (if used) could show up as a "cakey" pale yellow buildup. SMPTE Recommended Practice RP151 specifies hard waxes like paraffin for release print lubrication.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 05-13-2004, 07:35 PM:

John P. wrote:

quote: John Pytlak
excessive edgewax (if used) could show up as a "cakey" pale yellow buildup.

I think, this is it - at least from a color point of view.
Many years ago, I often noticed labels "Edge waxed" on used US prints, but I never knew what it meant.
This might also explain, why the problem is - not over - but minimized already now after 8 days. Those PTR rolls have sure been on overtime, taking a good part of the dust.

p

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 05-13-2004, 07:59 PM:

Could it be the yellow undercoat or primer under the surface paint?

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 05-15-2004, 08:47 AM:

Huh?

[Confused]

fjn
Local 294 Ret.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-15-2004, 03:25 PM:

Matthew Bailey asks, "Could it be the yellow undercoat or primer under the surface paint?"

No, I believe that FilmGuard and PTRs both automatically strip off 110% of any manufacturer-applied surface paint on Kodak, Fuji, or Agfa stock. If that isn't enough, this invisible and indectable paint (see Williams, Jay & Abrashkin, Raymond: Danny Dunn and the anti-gravity paint) is automatically removed by the light from the xenon arc. Theatres still running carbon arcs without FilmGuard or PTRs might have a problem.

--jhawk

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 05-15-2004, 09:47 PM:

I meant the paint on the projector. Could the film or something else be wearing it away & depositing it in form of dust on the film?