Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Constantly loose pad roller on 5-Star. Why?

This is topic Constantly loose pad roller on 5-Star. Why? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 05-15-2004, 08:56 PM:

Greetings all,

One of our [Simplex 5-Star] sound head's holdback sprocket's upper pad roller arm repeatedly comes loose, no matter how much I tighten the set screw holding it in place. When I had a chance to do a complete breakdown, I took some time to examine what may be causing the problem. The sprocket teeth are all in good shape, the roller's distance from the edge of the sprocket is at a good distance, and the sprocket shaft turns smoothly, and in good rotation.

Something else must be causing the screw to loosen. Has anyone had this problem, and what did you do to fix it? I believe this to be the culprit of our shedding prints. The PTRs are covered in white dust at the end of each show, exclusively on this particular projector.

Thanks for reading!
-Jackson

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-15-2004, 09:00 PM:

Check that the pad roller runs true to the sprocket teeth and is parralel to its face
Put some nail polish or better yet lockite on the screw and set it and let it harden to keep it from drifting

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-16-2004, 01:11 AM:

better yet don't put lock tight on there unless you want problems later on when you have to change a pad roller shaft. On that note are you talking about the pad roller shaft set screw or the main screw that holds the assembly to the frame. I have had issues with the main screw coming loose on older 5 star heads. The newer ones have that screw going straight through with a lock nut on the other side. if it is the set screw on the pad roller shaft I have in some cases been able to get the set screw tight then add another set screw on top of that one to prevent the other one from working out.

to verify the shedding problem run the film with the pad roller open. The tension on the film will keep it on the sprocket. Believe me I know it will I have had to run shows in that manner before until I got a part in to fix it.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-16-2004, 01:39 AM:

It is just a HOS to begin with. The problem can be solved very easily...don't let the damn thing slam shut when it is closed, and open it gently when you lace the machine.

Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 05-16-2004, 02:15 AM:

Tommorrow I work the side that has the mentioned projector, and I will run the first show with the pad roller open. I suppose if it still sheds, I won't worry about fixing the pad roller so soon.

I do agree with you Paul, it probably was from someone being rough on the equipment. I was broken into the habit early on never to slam the gate or pad rollers when threading. If I want to be rough, I always pick something unimportant to slam, like our microwave door, or the radio, or maybe an old 3 minute trailer at a co-worker (though the >2 minute ones are slightly more aerodynamic).

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-16-2004, 02:09 PM:

Locktite removable isn't an issue to remove it later

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 05-16-2004, 05:08 PM:

Screw Lock-Tight! [fu]

If you have loose threads, then contact a screw/gear company like Berg in New York. They have set screws with locking inserts and other stuff to do the job CORRECTLY!

In my opinion, Lock-Tight is a cheap way of half-assing a job!

Locking hardware of the proper kind is the quality way to go!

Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 05-16-2004, 11:30 PM:

The pad roller is causing a majority of shedding. The PTRS still came out dirty (dirtier on the ST side I may add), however, that may be due to the print picking up dirt from the shedding.

I am not certified to repair this part myself sadly. I was hoping the screw was just rattling loose due to a bad bearing or something else that I could repair without the tech on hand.

Thanks anyway for the help fellas!
-Jackson

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-16-2004, 11:57 PM:

Just loosen the screw and stuff two film thicknesses around the sprocket and close the pad roller. Then tighten that little worthless 6 (maybe 8)-32 acrew. Open the pad roller and reclose it. Move the pad roller with your fingers. You should feel a very slight drag from the two thicknesses of the film if the pad roller bracket isn't sprung to shit or if the pad roller flange is snugly agains the sprocket. If it is, a few thin washers from Eagle Hardware should correct the problem. If it is a heavy drag, just compensate for it before you reef that damn screw down.

Before you do this, make sure the big screw (the one holds the pad roller bracket on the manin casting) is TIGHT!

You don't have to be a brain sugeon to make this adjustment. Do it with confidence and you will be OK.

That 5-Star sound head should be renamed to "5-Boner" sound head. I never liked that HOS. (Sorry, Strong International [fu]

) I would prefer the Simplex SH-1000 or the RCA-9030 over that thing any day of the week.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-17-2004, 12:03 AM:

Hey, at least the 5 Star can be modified to rid itself of that damned "dirt embedder roller". With an SH-1000 or RCA-9030 boat anchor, you're stuck with it!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-17-2004, 12:06 AM:

HAH! you would not be stuck with it if you don't use WD-40 on the damned thing.... [Big Grin]

Those old SH-1000's and 9030's have been running for at least 60 years. There must be something that was done right. [Big Grin]

Yeah, as far as I know, the rubber roller does interchange between the 5-Star and the SH-1000.

And, I agree, the SH-1000's and 9030's are very heavy. I think they could almost be used to moor the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier.

So would that old 1964 10,000 watt Collins vacuum tube transmitter I keep running. It'll be mine in about 2 or three weeks.

It beats the solid state stuff for tone quality - hands down.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-17-2004, 12:10 AM:

Paul, glad you're finally back and up to your ol' self of bitching about everything... [Razz]

quote: Brad Miller
...dirt embedder roller...

Gosh Brad, I didn't think we were talking about PTRs... [Razz]

>>> Phil

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-17-2004, 12:13 AM:

Thanks, Phil. It has been a long road to haul. [Smile]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-17-2004, 12:18 AM:

Hang in there, bub! Welcome back.

>>> Phil

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-17-2004, 08:03 AM:

"Yeah, as far as I know, the rubber roller does interchange between the 5-Star and the SH-1000."
_________________________________________________________________

Yes, and the whole lateral guide roller assy. is exactly the same and is interchangable.

I'd take a 4 star any day over just about anythng else out there, a late model 5 star actually can perform just about as good as a 4 star. The WORST soundhead I've ever seen is the design(kludge)on the new Apogee projector... from the intermittent sprocket down on, its an absolute [puke]

! Uncle Rube musta had a hand in its design.

There are only 4 decent soundheads that are made in the U.S..... this is my order of preference.

1. Simplex 4 Star
2. RCA 9030
3. Century
4. 5-Star

Of course the absolute best is the DP-70 soundhead after I do all the upgrades to them in the shop. No film contact here except at the very edges, and a 5 minute plus run down time on the sound drum!

Mark

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-17-2004, 08:31 AM:

Ah, a Mark's Favourites list. How delightful!

(Please hear this in Stanley Holloway's "Titfield Thunderbolt" voice.)

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-17-2004, 07:49 PM:

Also in Stanley Holloways "Titfield Thunderbolt" voice.....

"We should drink a toast to that....Another round for everyone bartender...."

Mark

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-17-2004, 10:07 PM:

oops...double post on an edit. Sorry.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-17-2004, 10:08 PM:

Uncle Rube? Kinda funny, Mark. But when I was 16, we had a TV tech by the name of "Uncle Rube."

His last name was Kubitchka. [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-17-2004, 10:32 PM:

"His last name was Kubitchka."

Hey Paul,
That sounds like a good Bohemian name that you would typically encounter in Manitowoc!!

Mark

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-20-2004, 02:41 AM:

Ah, it must be bitch about simplex day, how delightful [evil]

The 5-star is the worst (modern) soundhead made. They SUCK, plain and simple. Why in the hell must we have two unecessary rollers to slow down threading time? I can whip through an SH-1000 in half the time it takes to thread these dreadful concoctions of potmetal torture. The pad roller stops are, well, non existant. the older machines had a screw, thats right, a screw to adjust pad roller clearance. now we have a flimsy blade stuffed in a spring to try and stop the force of the arm? WHO THE HELL DID THAT!! These damn things love to break, especially on busy friday nights (happened two weeks ago as a matter of fact). Then there is the eccentric shaft that controls pad roller clearance. These especially love to loosen up, and no amount of locktite or superman jizz can keep these things tight. My boss actually removed the arm, drilled and tapped a second hole for another set screw and they still work loose.

For the record, I now in addition to the single screen art cinema, work for a 10 plex, with simplex all around, crappy platters and all. Now, someone start a thread about strong platters so I can go over there and bitch too.

have a nice day [Smile]