Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Missing credits at the end of a movie

This is topic Missing credits at the end of a movie in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006208

Posted by Todd Cornwall (Member # 2205) on 05-24-2004, 10:02 AM:

Here is something I have never seen happen before, nor has anyone at the theater I worked at. The theater was a first run house and we just got in our copy of Godsend (this was several weeks ago). After putting the whole movie togehter, I got down to the end credits, however, there were NO credits. The movie ended in the correct place, however, the credits were missing. This film had been previously viewed somewhere, by someone, as the heads and tails were reattached with masking tape and the print had some noticable wear to it. Could this have been a special screener? Are movies shown before the credits are added? I must stress that we are a first run house, we got the film the day before it was scheduled to open. Don't these things get checked closer? Who would send out a film with no credits at all?? Curious if this is common occurance?? We ordered another reel and there was no problem, however, it makes me wonder....who had this print.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-24-2004, 10:40 AM:

When you say 'the movie ended in the correct place', do you simply mean that the story seemed to finish as it should when watching it, or that you've checked for signs of tampering with the last reel of your print? Absolutely zero credits sounds wrong to me, especially for a modern mainstrem film. Is there any cut or join between the end of the picture and the tail ID section on the last reel? If so, it would suggest that some moron has chopped the credits off and not reattached them.

I've never known combined 'rough cut' versions without credits to be printed up as combined optical release prints. I've shown the odd workprint for a preview screening, but only with sepmag sound. My gut instinct is that someone has removed them from your print.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-24-2004, 10:54 AM:

I ran a sneak but the day the print arrived we also got a FedEx of a roll that was to replace the existing credits. The credits however were on the print and spliced at that. But this was an independent and not a mainstream. The screening was for backers to see it, so I probably was a work still in progress, although one would think that by the time the internegative is assembled they would have settled on what was supposed to be in the credits.

In Todd's case, it seems like it is just a whopper of a mistake. However, how someone could make such a mistake as cutting off the credits when breaking down a print is really questionable. On the other hand, through the years I've seen stuff that I would never have believed anyone could do, so I put nothing past the latter day "projectionists."

Posted by Todd Cornwall (Member # 2205) on 05-24-2004, 11:25 AM:

The movie was over....then there was about 1/3 of the reel left, however the film was completely blank.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-24-2004, 11:55 AM:

Oh, ok, then this is a lab error (blown printing light or perhaps a lighting step change that went askew, like being read as a 1 instead of the proper number). Which makes more sense than someone in a booth accidently chopping off the credits.
Was there sound on this 1/3rd of a reel? In any case, a replacement reel should be ordered ASAP.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-24-2004, 12:11 PM:

I've seen at least one print (from the late 1970s) that was made for bookers' screenings. It had a track but no picture for the first two minutes' of the first reel and for the entire length of the credits. So, yes, that type of print does exist, but I would hope that those prints would have the first and last reels replaced before being sent out for theatrical bookings.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-24-2004, 12:11 PM:

A printer light failure would result in CLEAR film on the print, not black. Separate light sources for the picture and soundtrack(s).

Posted by Todd Cornwall (Member # 2205) on 05-24-2004, 12:25 PM:

I understand it may have been an error, however, this print had been screened previously. There were splices and slight film damage. So, if the print was screened by someone, why didnt replace the reel then? If it was meant as a screener, why werent steps taken to make sure THIS print does not get sent out to a theater? If it was a brand new never viewed print, I could see this just being a lab error, but for people to know this particualr print had no credits, and to let it circulate is just plan laziness.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 05-24-2004, 12:34 PM:

I ran a sneak showing of "Road Trip" that had no real end credits- the cast list scrolled over the last scene as it does in the final version, but there were no credits or music after that. Some of the music in the film was different than in the final version too.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 05-24-2004, 01:28 PM:

It sounds like the exchange mixed a screening print reel with yours. Many times a print is ready before the full end title credits are ready. I get prints from Lion's Gate, New Line, Miramax and a few others. That the print is used for critic screenings and some previews. The critic screenings we hold here in New York, someone from that studio hands out a full set of press notes which include a full credit listing. Sometimes on the head or tail of that reel, it will read preview or bid print. Lion's Gates films are handled with TES..

Posted by Daniel Alt (Member # 2303) on 05-24-2004, 09:09 PM:

I won't say where or when, since I don't want to get anyone in trouble, but I saw a showing of "Galaxy Quest" looong after it was in first run where somehow the theater had been shipped a work print. Not only were there no credits, but half the effects hadn't been added in, so instead of shots of the spaceship at the end, there were a bunch of shots of an Apollo capsule reentering the atmosphere. That was sorta nifty.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-24-2004, 11:00 PM:

Todd, edit the subject title of this post. Teaser topics are NOT permitted here. The subject has to explain what the topic is about. If someone has to click on it to figure out what your "interesting film problem" is, then it is a teaser topic and you will soon be banned for it if not corrected. Click the FAQ link for more policies.

Have a nice day. [Smile]

Posted by Todd Cornwall (Member # 2205) on 05-24-2004, 11:19 PM:

I didnt think it was a teaser. But I understand your point.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-24-2004, 11:23 PM:

Awesome. Only 19 minutes!

He'll do. [Big Grin]

Posted by David Ingalsbe (Member # 2433) on 05-25-2004, 02:44 AM:

I too have recived one of these "screener prints". I recived a sneek peek of somthing a year and a half ago, 3 hours before it was to be shown and while building the last reel the movie faded to black and nothing. I called the 800 number for fox and the lady said that it was a screener print. She had me a new reel in 45 min. Fox has not sent me a sneek with less then 1 day to build and sreen since. [Smile]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-25-2004, 12:01 PM:

Todd, you asked the questions....

quote: Todd Cornwall
So, if the print was screened by someone, why didnt replace the reel then? If it was meant as a screener, why werent steps taken to make sure THIS print does not get sent out to a theater?

...and then you answer them....

quote:
(it's) just plan laziness.

In other words, in this business, [bs]

happens.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 05-25-2004, 01:58 PM:

I too have had this in a screener print. I ran Gone in 60 Seconds a few months before the release and it had a full soundtrack under where the credits should have been, but just black film on screen.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-25-2004, 02:08 PM:

Opening titles and closing credits are often the final elements to be approved (locked) in a production. It's one reason the 6000-foot Extended Length Reels (ELR) didn't succeed -- printing 2000-foot reels allows a lab to begin printing the middle reels of a picture while awaiting final approval of the titles and credits, whereas they would have to wait for final approval before they could begin printing any of a 6000-foot ELR release.

Since the final soundtrack may be approved before the credits, pre-release prints might just slug in clear negative, giving a print with the soundtracks, but black instead of credits.

Posted by Alan Haigh (Member # 1781) on 05-25-2004, 02:58 PM:

I agree with John, they probably struck it as a grading check copy before the end titles were finished. BTW way I love the security coding on your picture, John - I almost missed it! Gives it a nice professional "release" look to it. Now you'll be able to trace the exact place that photo was stolen from. Great!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-25-2004, 03:04 PM:

The Anti-Piracy code on my Film-Tech photo is courtesy of Film-Tech, and not my idea. [Roll Eyes]

The CAP Code I helped Kodak develop over twenty years ago was much harder to see on the screen.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-25-2004, 04:19 PM:

Not once you know it's there! Ever since I've been aware of those codes, they drive me crazy.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 05-25-2004, 05:20 PM:

quote: Daniel Alt
I saw a showing of "Galaxy Quest" looong after it was in first run where somehow the theater had been shipped a work print. Not only were there no credits, but half the effects hadn't been added in, so instead of shots of the spaceship at the end, there were a bunch of shots of an Apollo capsule reentering the atmosphere.

Hmmm. Did they say "Fuck" in it? There's one scene near the end of GQ where Sigourney Weaver's lips CLEARLY mouth the word "Fuck" but the audio is something lame like "Damn" or "Shit". Probably didn't want the PG-13 rating for the holidays?

=TMP=

Posted by Daniel Alt (Member # 2303) on 05-26-2004, 06:41 AM:

Sorry, can't say as I recall.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 05-26-2004, 09:52 AM:

These "screener" prints are typically labeled "BID" prints.

Some states have anti-blind bidding laws which require distributors to screen a release prior to accepting bids from exhibitors.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-26-2004, 02:52 PM:

Well,look at the bright side. If you can get a replacement reel, perhaps you'll wind up with 1/3 reel of black leader. That's pretty useful around the booth! [Wink]