Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Dark Screen Image??

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Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-24-2004, 01:50 PM:

This past weekend with the opening of Shrek2, we had many, many complaints about the "darkness" of the picture - especially during the first reel. Each night, at exactly the same time, we had customers coming up to the building and asking if we could adjust the brightness of the screen.

One of the scenes in the movie where Shrek and Fiona arrive at her parents castle, the image looked almost gray. The shadows on Shrek and Fiona's face were almost black.

I called Technicolor to ask about a replacement copy or just a replacement Reel #1... nothing is available. I called our booker this morning, and he thought there might be a technical problem with our equipment... specifically said we may have dropped one leg of the 3 phase power. The 15 minutes of policy trailers and previews were as bright as could be, but as soon as Shrek2 started.. dark images. The second feature ENVY was as bright as any movie we've ever shown.

Any clues??

What leads me to believe it's a print problem is that the images do get brighter and the following reel changes.

Technicolor said "IF" they could find us a replacement copy, they (Dreamworks) would demand a certified cashiers check for the cost of the print. If the print I claim is not found to be defective, they keep the money.

We have a 600 amp 3 phase electrical service going into the building. This weekend, the HVAC system, and the ice machine NEVER shut off. During peak periods, the lamphouse, rectifier, ice machine, kitchen grill, deep fryer, steam tables, etc. were all going at peak demand.
I would assume if we had dropped a phase leg, then the other applicances requiring 3 phase power would have been affected too ?

Is it possible for other electrical demanding applicances to draw power away from the lamphouse?

We are running a 4kw Xenex II with an Osram 4k bulb @ 125 amps +/-.

Any help would be appreicated.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-24-2004, 02:14 PM:

Often, the "look" of a print is a creative "color timing" decision by the filmmakers and the lab. A scene may deliberately be made dark or desaturated because it fits the mood of the picture.

Most drive-ins struggle to get enough light on their big and sometimes weathered screens, and are probably well under 16 footlamberts. Light or average lit scenes can look okay at the lower light levels typical of a drive-in (4 to 8 footlamberts), but the darker scenes will be "lost in the dark", eliciting complaints.

I suggest you visit a few other theatres playing "Shrek 2" and notice the scenes that aren't looking good in your theatre. I suspect they are indeed darker, but suit the mood of the picture when projected at the normal 12-22 footlamberts specified by standard SMPTE 196M.

In the future, you could request a "drive-in" print, if available. These are deliberately printed a few printer lights lighter to look a bit better on a dim screen. Better yet, consider upgrading to a larger lamp when you can afford to in the future --- you want to get as close to 16 footlamberts on the screen as you can.

If you lost one leg of three-phase, you would see a drop in the ammeter reading, and a significant amount of flicker. And it would not just happen for a particular reel or scene.

If there were a problem with your particular print, it should be obvious if you lay out the scenes on an illuminator on the rewind bench. One possibility would be that a section of the film got accidently fogged, usually seen as a bluish cast across the entire width of the film, including the soundtracks.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-24-2004, 02:38 PM:

Thanks for the quick reply John.

I'm still led to believe that this is indeed a "print problem". Last weekend we showed the trailer to Shrek2 that included the very same scene I referenced above, and it was stunningly bright.
I'm going to go in tonight and run the film just to see how dark it actually is. I'll check the amp meter on the rear of the lamphouse to see if there is any drop showing on the meter.

You mentioned "Drive-In Prints". They do still exists, although they are now called "IMAX Prints". Our copies of both Van Helsing and Dawn of the Dead were IMAX Prints, including all of the enclosed trailers which were packed in the cans.

I'll check the print tonight to look for "fogging" as you described it.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 05-27-2004, 05:57 AM:

Hi Barry,

I think you'll find almost all CGI (or CGA) prints are dull. With animation we expect bright pictures, but it seems the opposite with anything computor animation generated. Our Shrek 2 trailer looks dull compared to everything else running around it.

We have over 12fl on our drive-in screens and still dread dark shows. The indoor up the road has even duller images than us with 7,000 watt lamps, however.

What size is your screen? That will give us some idea what your light is with a 4k running in optimum conditions. If you have the power supply current available, you can still run 5k lamps without water cooling on most projectors, our Century and Philips handle it fine even in the peak of our Australian Summer.

David

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-27-2004, 06:56 AM:

I concur with David K on this one, but in particular I've found that contrast also takes a hit with CGI features. The dynamic range that we've come to expect with 35MM simply isn't there with CGI-to-film stuff.