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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 05-31-2004, 11:37 AM:
 
I recently purchased two Simplex projectors that I have to pick up and remove from service. I have started a list of tools that I need to take to complete this job. Is there any advice you guys can give me as far as what tools I cannot do without? It is five hours from here so coming home to get something I forgot is not an option. What size socket wrench do I need to loosen the 4 hex head screws that attach the soundhead to the base? Also I am going to take a digital camera and tape to document and mark everything I diassemble.

I am a very handy and mechanical-minded person and I have worked on these before, but have never done something this extensive on them. This will be somewhat of a learning process. Is there any recommendations as to what I definitely should or shouldn't do? I will be installing these in my home theater. I have set aside two days to complete this. Does this sound like a reasonable amount of time to you? Thanks for all your help guys!
 

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Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 05-31-2004, 01:08 PM:
 
Not that I've ever done this but there are a few things that spring to mind:

Make sure all electrical supplies are disconnected.
Remove the Xenon (using proper P.P.E. and care).
If there are any oil sumps/baths, drain them first.

Alex.
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 05-31-2004, 01:11 PM:
 
What model Simplex projector heads are they? And, more importantly, what make and model of soundheads are they mounted to?

The model of soundhead can make a difference on what tools to bring. If it's an RCA 1040, the projector will be mounted directly onto the soundhead through keyholes on the top of the head, using hex bolts (you will need a thin 9/16" wrench to loosen the hard-to-get-at front bolt right above the gearbox).

RCA 9030s used a mounting plate secured to the projector with large slotted flathead screws and attached to the soundhead with Allen capscrews (3/16" Allen wrench needed).

The Simplex soundhead mount, IIRC, is just a long metal bar with using large slotted screws.

The soundhead arm bolts probably will require a 3/4" socket, and a lot of leverage to loosen. I would not entrust this job to anything less than a good 1/2"-drive socket set.

When in doubt, just pack a complete set of screwdrivers, Allen wrenches, and a socket set and every tool you can think of to properly disconnect all electrical connections. If you do not have a 3/8" blade screwdriver or a high-quality 1/2"-drive socket set, buy 'em. Sometimes it's better to be prepared for unforeseen circumstances than to worry about whether you brought the right tools.

Good luck!

[Edited to correct location of hard-to-reach bolt on RCA 1040.]

[ 05-31-2004, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Jon Miller ]
 

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Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 05-31-2004, 03:06 PM:
 

quote: Jon Miller

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... and every tool you can think of to properly disconnect all electrical connections.

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Include a hack saw (for cutting conduit or BX) and a heavy pair of wire cutters, in case it's impossible to properly disconnect something! Just be sure the circuit is dead!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-31-2004, 03:14 PM:
 
1. A full set of combination wrenches are much more handy than a socket set because there are many places on many projectors that a socket on a ratchet will not fit.

2. A Wiggy to check that all power is off before cutting all the flex with the (see #3)

3. Sawzall that you'll have along. (this makes the job quick and neat!)

4. A set of screwdrivers.

5. A bright Worklight on a stand as many booths are very poorly lit.

6. A refregerator dolly if you're taking the bases/consoles.

7. A set of allen wrenches to disconnect the motor coupling so you can seperate the soundhead into two pieces, also many platter systems are assembled with Allen screws!

8. Boxes and packing material for the lenses and delicate stuff.

9. A back brace cause the stuff is VERY heavy(take this seriously!)

10. A pickup or large van to move it all in.

11. Just yourself and one other person is all you'll need unless the stairs are difficult or you have time constraints cause then you WON'T have to buy a boatload of afterwards for all those that DIDN'T help out.

* Fiqure about 1 hour per machine if you're experineced, more if you're not.*

Mark
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 05-31-2004, 04:30 PM:
 
Don't forget to bring a good pair of gloves, some rags and/or paper towels, and a small first aid kit! It'll be somewhat of a dirty, oily job, so it is a wise idea to wear gloves to keep the mess off your hands and prevent cuts. The first aid kit will come in very handy if you decide not to wear gloves and find a sharp edge the wrong way, especially if you have to Sawzall your way through a rat's nest of conduits.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-31-2004, 05:30 PM:
 
Don't discount that socket set...if this is a pedestal mount SH-10XX soundhead...there is one bolt that a combination wrench won't get to and only a socket, of appropriate length or extensino will get it out.

Steve
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 05-31-2004, 08:26 PM:
 
Thanks for all your help! I will be taking an enclosed U-Haul trailer on my Chevy half-ton truck and have accounted for a furniture dolly. I don't have to worry about Xenon's being that these are Peerless carbon-arc lamphouses. About the only thing I am concerned about moving on my own is the bases and the rectifiers. Unfortunately these are located on government property and I have to pick-up during the week so I am going it alone.

These are Simplex XL heads and soundheads. They are mounted on Simplex regular pedestal bases (not the heavy duty ones) and have the 220 rectifiers for the carbon-arcs. I called to set-up the pick-up and talked to the guy who ran them. He said they ran one show a week for about fifteen years, so they are in great shape. I don't think I will have a problem disassembling the projectors into sub-assemblies as much as the wiring. That may prove to be a nuisance. I will definitely be taking a multimeter to make sure all the circuits are off! If you think of anything else please let me know. You have some good ideas and thanks for the help!

Josh
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-31-2004, 08:41 PM:
 
Remove the sounddrum flywheel first! It is accessible via allen head by sticking the long side of an allen wrench down a hole in the flywheel. Bring a gear puller with you, as over time those tend to stick.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-31-2004, 11:37 PM:
 
Brad,
He means the Four and a half star soundheads(the one with the preamp compartment below the exciter compartment), not the Five stars. On the Four and a half star's flywheel there is a screw that goes through a hub in the flywheel, same as an SH-1000. You will need to remove the flywheels to get at the intermediate drive gear which is held in place with two allen screws. Anyway, Remove the slotted screw and don't loose it, then remove the flywheel. Normally I put them back on and leave the side cover in place. This is just a short trip anyway... just creates more parts to pack up, or loose and misplace. These aren't going by UPS .

Mark
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-01-2004, 03:30 AM:
 
It is easy. Just scope it out, grab your tools, and go to it. There is nothing difficult about it. If you see something that may foul the removal, remove it before you bash the hell out of it. Practice common sense on electrical safety and mechanical safety. Pull a wrench - not push it. If you push a wrench, you can expect to have a few bashed knuckles. (been there)
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 06-01-2004, 05:03 AM:
 
I think you are right Mark, I think that these are four and a half star soundheads. They have a compartment that juts below the rest of the soundhead in the back. I know that I have seen them before, but never bothered to look at their model number.

These projectors have the upper and lower reel magazines attached to them. I will definitely have to remove these for safe transport, but do you think I could just transport the picture head and soundhead as one sub-assembly? If so do I still need to remove the soundhead flywheel?

Do you think it is possible for one guy to remove the rectifiers with a furniture dolly by himself? I think I can get to them where they sit with the furniture dolly. I can then just strap the belt around them and they should be fairly easy to move. I am a pretty big guy. 6'-4" 280 pounds. I used to work at UPS as an unloader and I work in a warehouse now. So I have a lot of experience moving heavy things. Cannot find info on how much these weigh though.

Thanks.

Josh
 

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Posted by William Bunch (Member # 1040) on 06-01-2004, 06:10 AM:
 
What military facility are these coming out of?

I just moved two Simplex XLs with full size pedestals and RCA 9030 sound heads down an extremely steep set of stairs. Those sound heads by themselves are very heavy.

Sounds like you have some even flooring and few stairs and that should help. I could move all this stuff myself if not for the stairs. But I'm getting older and should not be doing that sort of thing anymore.

Yes, Remove the magazines. There are some very fragile fingers on the backs of these that will break easily.

This is all heavy cast iron and steel with sharp corners so be very careful working alone. One slip and you could easily amputate a finger or half your foot.

If these are the typical US military issue Simplex then you are in for a joy ride. These were made around 1950 are a different breed. We have many still showing daily features with almost no failures. The grade of steel in those days and the workmanship was top notch.

I'm glad to see two more Simplex XLs saved from the scrap heap.

Enjoy!

Bill Bunch
Misawa, Japan
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-01-2004, 08:08 AM:
 
I don't have much to add, except TAKE EVERYTHING! Since the equipment is already installed and working, there should be lots of other stuff in the booth that no one else will want/need, but which you can either use yourself or sell here in the For Sale forum.

Look around for lenses (obviously), collars, spare parts (take the cabinet, too), new and old sound equipment, film, reels, reel cabinets, speakers, transformers, curtains/masking (and motors), dimmers, carbons (and carbon savers), manuals for everything, etc.

You really should get a second person to help move the stuff, especially if there are stairs involved. The Simplex bases aren't too bad if disassembled, but the rectifiers will be heavy. You can remove the motors from the soundheads and carry them separately to save some weight there.

Definitely remove the soundhead flywheels and separate the soundheads from the picture heads. You can carry the soundhead/picture head combination as one piece, but it will probably be too heavy/awkward for one person. Be sure to remove the coupling gears, too, so that the picture head doesn't sit on the gear and damage either the gear or the shaft.

Oh, and take pictures (to send to Brad) of both the original installation and your soon-to-be new screening room!
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-01-2004, 02:37 PM:
 
Are these the projectors from the Rochester Psychiatric Hospital that were listed on e-Bay a few weeks ago?
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 06-01-2004, 09:40 PM:
 
John,

Yes, these are the projectors at the Rochester Psychiatric Center. Your ebay username wouldn't happen to be 2782John would it? There was someone by that name that was bidding against me for that auction.

I have been looking for a projection system for some time now and I could not pass up a turnkey operation such as this. It will save me lots of time and money rather than looking for and piecing parts together for the next few years.

Scott,

The guy told me that the only other thing in the booth that is not in the pictures are a couple of Neumade rewinders. But still I am preparing for more to be there. I am sure there must be more things there that he just doesn't realize I would want. The ebay auction said that I must take everything, so I plan to take EVERYTHING!

I tried to post a picture on here, but I could not resize the pictures to fit. Also I made a very long list of things to take and a digital camera was one of the things on there. I want to take plenty of pictures to document the event. I will definitely send them in to Brad when I get them back. The installation pics may take a while though.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-01-2004, 10:31 PM:
 






>>> Phil

[ 06-02-2004, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Phil Hill ]
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 06-01-2004, 10:51 PM:
 
Man, do those things look immaculate!

Joshua, you got the steal of the Simplex, I mean, the Century!

<drool!>
 

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Posted by William Bunch (Member # 1040) on 06-03-2004, 06:41 AM:
 
My gosh!! Are those light switches on the wall the type with the white/black push buttons? The whole place is an imaculate museum. Be sure to take those switches too. And I bet the switchplate covers are pure bass with brass screws too. WOW!
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-03-2004, 07:32 AM:
 
Yes, and don't forget to grab the phone (intercom?) off the wall, too.

I bet that the electrical panel in the second picture has a bunch of scary-looking knife switches inside it.

That Simplex (Altec?) amplifier could probably fetch a good price if you will be using more modern equipment.

You can save a little bit of weight in the rectifiers by removing the Sil-Tubes (take pictures first so you know how it goes together).
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-03-2004, 07:14 PM:
 
What a beauty!!!!!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-03-2004, 07:47 PM:
 
"That Simplex (Altec?) amplifier could probably fetch a good price if you will be using more modern equipment."

Nice booth indeed! Be sure that the wiring in those old Simplex amplifiers are not suffering from dry rot before you power them back up. That was pretty common in those and in old RCA's.

Have fun with it all!

Mark
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 06-03-2004, 10:51 PM:
 
Thanks for all your help guys. I left home at 5 AM this morning and drove 4.5 hours there. I worked on them for 8.5 hours and drove back home. I finally got home at 11:15 PM. Long day! Wish I would have had help. I did it by myself and those friggin things are heavy. I will be sore tomorrow!

The building had no electric so the only light was from one window. I had a furniture dolly and I had to navigate about 20 stairs that had 2-90 degree turns. I took the first rectifier down and got stuck in the first turn. I could not get the dolly to come out so I could get on the other side. I could only get it back up one step and managed to finnagle the dolly out then.

I had one person offer me $500 for the sound system. Does this sound resonable? It is like new. It has tube sound and I have access to more modern, smaller, sound equipment. What do you think I could get on ebay for it? Also do you know if they make 220v single phase carbon-arc rectifiers? These rectifiers have six bulb type tubes in them. The guy told me they are probably not available anymore. Plus with running these in my home I will not be able to get 3 phase power. Thanks again guys!

Josh
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-03-2004, 11:26 PM:
 
No, Single phase arc rectifiers are just about non-existant these days. You might try just running one on 220 single phase and see how it goes. All you'll need at home is about 30 amps DC... but even the smallest size carbons may not burn right in at that current, I've only ever run one at 50 amps myself. An arc welding supply might work in the short term but will not be suitable for more than very intermittent duty.

On the other hand there is a 220 volt single phase motor generator about 2 hours south of Salt LAke City. So if you're ever in the area just let me know. The owner there would like it out of his upstairs booth bathroom. Those are extremely scarce.... I mean the generator....

Mark
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-03-2004, 11:28 PM:
 
You have some real classics there. I'm glad you got them!!!! Hope you can build your booth and have it look as nice and run as nice as they booth probably did.

Congratulations! I wish I could have won that stuff. I would have found a place for them even though I am cramped for space. I'm wondering where I am going to stuff my 10KW Collins when I get it. But rest assured, I'll find someplace for it.

I already have one transmitter sitting in my living room.
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 06-13-2004, 10:32 PM:
 
I tried to turn both of these over by hand. One turns but it is tight. The other only turns so far and then stops. I did not want to force it. I was told they have not been used for over 25 years. The oil has all but disappeared from the head. There are traces of it but it is thicker than molasses. How should I go about fixing these? Do I need to replace the bearings and strip the heads apart for cleaning?

Also the soundheads have mirrors instead of the cells that I am used to seeing for the pickup of the sound. They also have a pull-out circuit board that contains tubes and the such. Is this okay to use with a modern soundsystem? If not can they be retrofitted? Also is there modern amplifiers that can run a 2 projection system? Can they all do that? I have a manual here for one sound system that I used to use that shows how to flip a dipswitch for a 2 projector system. Thanks.

Josh
 

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Posted by Rick Long Jr (Member # 541) on 06-14-2004, 09:41 PM:
 
First thing you should do is get an X-L manual from the manuals section and start by removing the intermittents, soung head to projector coupling, then see what component is tight. Try some projector oil in a squirt can to free things up. If you feel up to the job, most of the projector can be easily disassembled into sub-assemblies, that you can clean and rebuild if necessary. If the intermittints are tight, don't open them up. Try flushing with clean oil and see if it frees up. Just don't force anything.
Those booth pictures sure bring back memories of my childhood.
Good luck!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-15-2004, 07:31 AM:
 
"If the intermittints are tight, don't open them up. "

Sorry Rick but I completely disagree on this one. With old dried up oil probably in there I would be very concerned about the spirals on both the star and cam being somewhat plugged up. I have seen this type of situation on many X-L's over the years and its remotely possible they might seize up.... Adding fresh oil isn't going to open up the spiral on a shaft thats been sitting that long. Ditto for both the upper and lower sprocket shaft spirals which are typically plugged up on an old head anyway. All three of these assemblies can only be properly cleaned by removal, and teardown.

If you are nervous about working on your movements I would be happy to do it for you @ no cost if you ship them to our shop. I doubt they would need anything other than just a good cleaning.

Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-05-2004, 11:05 PM:
 
So we finally found a house and moved into it the weekend before this last. I took some pictures tonight of the basement in hopes of getting some input.







The first picture is looking back towards the end where I plan to put the projectors. It shares this wall with the garage where the electrical box is and I can just run a breaker box down this wall for the theater. Speaking of which my dad is coming up here to help me upgrade the service to 200 amp. We will have to install a new main panel and some other things. He asked me how much amperage I planned on running in the theater. So how much will I need to run a Dolby CP-200 sound rack with a Christie AW3, a Kelmar rewind table and the Xl heads and a 1000 watt lamphouse?

The second picture is of the end where the screen will go. I purposely planned this because I don't want the equipment next to the sump pump where all that moisture is. Especially if there is ever flooding I want them towards the higher end.

So I figure I will build a hallway as wide as the staircase with a doorway to a room where the washer and dryer and furnace are and then a door on the other side with the theater. I will also have to close off the sump pump area in a small closet behind the screen. I figure I can get a 20 foot throw from this. The ceilings are nice and high and the previous owners had the basement dug up and waterproofed. The walls will need painted also and I will need to soundproof them too. Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Josh
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-06-2004, 12:54 AM:
 
The Hippodrome Theatre in the Masonic Temple in Auburn, NY is consumed in fire to rise from the ashes, like the phoenix.


 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-06-2004, 01:17 PM:
 
Joshua -- sounds like a fun project! I wish I had the space for a "real" home theatre like that. Someday....

As for power: The Dolby box doesn't take much, but the amps will need a few amps each at full power. Same for the projector motors. Power for the booth monitor, exciter supplies, etc. will be negligible. Will you be running the lamphouses at 120v or 220v? Don't forget to plan for work lights, threading lamps, exciter supply, etc. Not sure on the AW3 or the Kelmar, but the amount of power consumed won't be much.

You will want separate circuits for sound, projector motors, lamps, changeovers, and "other stuff" (platter, etc.) in addition to your usual room circuit for outlets, work lights, rewind bench, etc. As discussed in another thread, you might want to consider a UPS for the processor and (if you will be adding them later) digital systems.

You might want to consider separate circuits for house and stage lights (maybe get red and/or blue lights to illuminate the screen, unless you will have a curtain. That way, you can dim the lights independently of each other. If you have a Kelmar dimmer (or similar), you will probably want controls in the house as well as the booth.

I'm surprised that William hasn't told you to be sure to stock up on urns for decoration and a WurliTzer organ for silent film accompaniment.
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-07-2004, 02:39 AM:
 

quote: Scott Norwood

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I'm surprised that William hasn't told you to be sure to stock up on urns for decoration

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No, no! Wrong decorative motif! Urns don't belong there any more than in Radio City Music Hall or the Hollywood Pantages! He's recreating the Auburn Hippodrome, & the central motif is posts! Potted palms on either side of the screen would be appropriate, though, especially if they're fake like the ones sold in theater supply catalogs of the 1920s & teens.

The wainscoting on the wall & stamped tin ceiling panels are auxilliary. Besides, the walls & ceiling will likely be consumed with a probably lifelong project of getting some kind of handle on the acoustics in that room. first place to focus will be the back wall, which will be an interesting double wall to isolate the booth in the back, & have isolation behind a stuffed diaphragmatic wall to isolate the auditorium on that side. The low ceiling (next problem) will make stuff difficult for the space lost if a suspended ceiling is hung. Likely it would have to end some distance from the screen which won't interfere with sightlines, & the section leading from the bare ceiling near the screen to the beginning of the suspended ceiling will need to be ramped at least 45 degrees & acoustical tiles installed there.

A painted curtain would be nice, like the one at the Meridian Strand

Sheesh, I hate that valance, they should have just omitted it.

But curtains & motors are expensive, & besides, the Hippodrome had no curtain & likely just showed scenic slides between shows. So it would be cheaper just to buy a Kodak Ektagraphic slide projector off of eBay, & some glass theater scenic & coming attraction slides which often go for just $2.00, & photograph them onto 35mm slides to run before the movie.



Outlay less than $100, masking is likely to be manual, anyway.

I've been thinking about getting some equipment together to take some shows to some venues, & working hard on the front end -- an absence of a curtain is abominable, but as I was thinking about one of the venues, an Egyptian-themed interior, I was thinking it would be perfect to have a painted curtain with heiroglyphics on it, & an effects projector to have flames dancing up from the bottom, then thought of just projecting them on it via a slide projector, then thought of Frank Angel's preference for light, cream-colored curtains, that would be reflective & flexible, & you could change the slide for different themed shows, heck, it's not as wonderful, but you could do away with lugging curtains, motor, & curtain track just by using 2 Eketagraphic slide projectors right on the screen, one to project a themed 'curtain', the other modified as an effects projector. For a 'curtain' for Egyptian theatre, project a stationary slide of a wall of heiroglyphics, & the effects projector provides dancing flames at the bottom.

A different-themed interior for example could be a stationary pastoral Greek landscape, & slowly drifting clouds across it. Add appropriate pre-show music & lights aimed up & out behind the top of the screen, & voila, instant classic atmospheric theatre front end. Minus the visual interest of curtain pleats & movement, but you sometimes can't have everything.

quote: Scott Norwood

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and a WurliTzer organ for silent film accompaniment

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Sheesh, Wurlitzers are hard to work on, & I'd hate to foist that on a newbie! A Robert Morton would be better, & a Wicks not as tonally delicious but reliable & easily serviced. I've seen nice little 4 or 6 rank Wicks TO's going on eBay for about $2,000, some not sold. But that theatre's a little small even for a 4 rank TO. If you look at the Hippodrome, down there at house left behind the all-important posts is an upright grand piano. If he doesn't play, he could get an ugly-duckling upright (not spinet!) player piano off eBay for $300 or so if he picks it up. A roll would only get him through a short 1-reeler, though. There were special roll players for addition to player pianos in theatres which ran the same rolls made for Photoplayers (odd organ-piano combo things with one or two high-capacity roll players); they were themed for Comedy, Drama, etc. You can't get that length of music in a standard player piano roll, so if you were intent on it, you'd have to either get a photoplayer, an outboard roll player, a small organ with roll player, or buy one of those new floppy or CD-based storage media player add-ons for a standard piano like Pianomation. Best just to get a player piano, & use it for appropriate pre-show music, like a piano transcription of the classic curtain raiser Poet & Peasant Overture by Suppe'.
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-07-2004, 06:48 AM:
 
William,

If you are into organs I wish you could see my neighbors house. He is 82 years old and can hardly get around anymore, but he used to repair organs for a living. He said he didn't get into the big theater type organs as much and that he mainly just repaired home type organs. He has 3 in his garage, 2 in his living room and 2 in his basement. Sometimes he is up until 11pm playing those things. Even though our houses are probably 50 feet apart and the windows are closed, that sound really carries.

Anyhow he took me into his basement to see one that he built himself. The sides are made of plywood and aren't that much to look at, but the real jaw dropper is all the electronics he put into it. He made all the circuitry himself. He showed me one board in particular that he had to make 61 identical of just to make a reverb or something. There are so many boards in it it is amazing. There are wires bundled up neatly going in every direction. It looked like something from Nasa inside. On the front panel he has (guessing) about 300 pushbuttons from computers on both sides, 2 keyboards, and about 150 pull knobs. This thing is unbelievable. He also has a plastic etcher so he has plastic bezels on all the knobs which identify what they are. I know nothing about organs (or really care to for that matter) but I was floored by his ingenuity and handiness. Maybe he will let me take a picture of it someday and I can send it to you.

Josh
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-08-2004, 03:47 AM:
 

quote: Joshua Waaland

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Sometimes he is up until 11pm playing those things. Even though our houses are probably 50 feet apart and the windows are closed, that sound really carries.

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