quote: Martin Risher

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As i looked at it, the feet had little nut type things, and i figured they were used to raise or lower the projcteor at four points. I toyed with it a little bit and it seemed to have no effect. INFACT i turned the nut to the point where projector appeared to be 'floating' above the nut.

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did you turn the other nuts as well? it sounds like the center of gravity was such that the projector was just happily standing on 3 points rather than 4. probably not good to leave it that way....

carl
 

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Posted by Mike Pennell (Member # 1692) on 06-08-2004, 02:38 AM:
 
Martin, dont touch those "rails" unless you want to make your auditorium into a planetarium, they evenly move the image up and down on an axis. The weight of the power supply will quickly pull the back of the projector down without someone/something supporting it. If the projected image is indeed uneven and not just a twisted scope lens, adjust the projector by those leveling feet. You're gonna need to lower one side and raise the other. Go slow or even better have your tech take a look at it. on his next visit If you do it yourself level it with the flat lens in and match the aperture image to the masking, the scope should coincide. Or the problem could possibly be turret related .
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-08-2004, 02:45 AM:
 
Yank the aperature plate and project an image on the screen. Adjust the frame knob to see if the frame line of the image is parallel with the deck, (floor) or at least parallel to the masking at the top or bottom of the screen. If you do this with a flat aspect ratio and the frame line is not perfectly horizontal, it might be time to make sure the projector is leveled horizontally.

If the frame line is horizontal with the flat lense and not with the scope lens, then your scope lens has been twisted as others may have suggested. You can get it fairly accurate by using a frame line, lostening the lens collar and rotating the lens so the frameline is horizontal. But that's only after you checked to see what that frameline looked like with a flat lens.

Some day if you would like, I will drop in and see what you have. You are only about 50 miles from me.
 

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Posted by Martin Risher (Member # 2453) on 06-08-2004, 03:27 AM:
 
-[Deleted]-
 

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Posted by Martin Risher (Member # 2453) on 06-08-2004, 03:28 AM:
 
Thanks all, I'll poke it around tommarow morning. Im pretty sure the issue remains with both formats, however i think it was more noticable in scope. Dont mark my words, I came in tonight just to check on responses.

But yea, so I'll toy around tommarow and let you all know if it worked. I have a feeling the anamorphic lens may be the issue...

dun dun dun...

stay tuned...
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-08-2004, 03:40 AM:
 
Ideally you should let your tech fix this. However knowing how the real world works (often techs are far too overworked to be willing to fix things like this), here's the best explanation I can offer.

First off let's assume that the tech who set up this projection system knew what he was doing in at least the most basic sense. This means that he should have leveled the console while projecting a loop of PA35 film through the flat lens and achieved perfect level on screen before he started cutting plates and leveled (by twisting the lens) the scope lens.

Assuming he did that properly, the others are correct do not go hacking on the aperture plate! You will only do more damage.

You don't really need test film to verify this. Make yourself a loop out of a green band tomorrow. Remove the aperture plate and run the loop on screen through the flat lens. Rack the framing just enough to see the frameline project at the top of the screen. Is it level? Now rack it the other way so you can just see the frameline project at the bottom of the screen. Is it level? It should be. If not, reinsert the aperture plate and adjust the leveling feet of the console until it is. Be careful of two things. First make sure you don't end up with an aperture shadow on the screen when you are finished, and second make sure your console isn't wobbly from having the feet not quite leveled evenly.

Now it's time to go after the scope lens. With the aperture removed, project that same loop on screen and perform the same tests. Is that frameline level as it is compared against the top and bottom masking? (Do note it is common for there to be keystoning in the image, especially on curved screens and stadium seating houses near the bottom. The goal is to get it as balanced as possible.) If not loosen the lens mounting screw and gently twist a little bit until it is level. (Be careful to make sure you aren't twisting the anamorphic attachment with the backup/prime lens sitting still.) Now lock it back down and reinstall your aperture. Do you see an aperture shadow? You shoudn't, but you probably will. From this point you will have to make fine tuning adjustments on your turret.

You failed to give us any specific information on the projector head (a Highlight II is a lamphouse/power supply, not a projector), so that's about as specific as we can get. Odds are if you have that model lamphouse you have either a Simplex or a Century projector hanging on the front of it. The manuals are reasonably detailed in how to make those minor adjustments to the turret to get rid of the aperture shadow.

Bear in mind all of the answers above are good advice (especially the part about the lamphouse angle "falling" if you loosen the bolts) and also that you need to check with your tech before you make any adjustments like this. Either he won't mind you taking care of it, or he will and he can get his butt to your theater and fix it himself!
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-08-2004, 03:56 AM:
 
Brad's suggestion is similar to what I mentioned in an earlier post. As far as techs are concerned, tons of independents up here don't have a "tech" to tend to their needs.

Techs are extremely rare up here in Washington State. Since Vern Klingman passed away, the only free-lanced techs I know of other than McRae is myself or Ken Layton. I can't speak for Ken, but I usually don't advertize myself as being available. Too much of a pain in the butt for a person my age. McRae is so badly overloaded he can't even see the sunshine anymore.

Many theaters have to pull a tech out of ACE in Portland, and the cost is prohibitive because of road time and expenses to fix such a minor problem as you might have. If you have gears laying all over the floor, that's a different situation.

Furthermore, sometimes I think Scott is so badly overloaded that it might take a good deal of time to get to you on minor things like you have. Scott does have some good people working for him, and I certainly endorse his company as being a being a reputable organization, and will serve you well.

All in all, I know it is something you can do yourself if you know what the cause is.

I'll still be happy to take a peek at it for you - at no cost other than maybe a cup of coffee. I'll at least mention what you can do about it. I am a tech. I have built projection booths and serviced projection booths for many years (too many, in fact)and have a very good track record of that.

This would make a nice Sunday drive for me, as sometimes I get bored out of my skull. So this would solve two problems...your tilted picture and my being bored for that day.

Email me if you want me to stop in.
 

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Posted by Martin Risher (Member # 2453) on 06-08-2004, 01:09 PM:
 
Yea, I wasn't about to go hacking away at the apature plate, seemed a littl... mm... i dunno. But yea, I made a loop out of a trailer. I figured i could counter-act the 'slightly unevenness of the projector' by adjuting the anamorphic lens. and TADA! All is grand.

I also checked out those 'nuts' i was talking about ealier, and lowered a 2nd one on the same side, yeah, the damn thing just hovered above the two... so i thought that was weird.

But in anycase, the image looks pretty good now. So thats done and taken care of. Cool... Thanks for the offer Phil, I'll keep your name and email up in the booth incase McRae isnt able to make it out. I'll be sure we keep you in mind. Thaks again Weenie Man.

[ 06-14-2004, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Martin Risher ]
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-08-2004, 02:38 PM:
 
You need to check the flat picture and see if it is off level. If it is, your quick fix to the scope lens may have given it the appearance of being level, but vertical lines will be diagonal. That's not the right way to do it.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-08-2004, 10:37 PM:
 
Martin, be sure to do as Brad recommends on his last post. It is an echo of what I said much earlier. If the projector is not level horizontally, you have basically added an error to offset an error.
 

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Posted by Martin Risher (Member # 2453) on 06-09-2004, 10:07 PM:
 
Yeah - I took a closer look at the flat format and it turned out fine. So I went ahead and shifted the animorphic lens. It all checks out fine and the image is completely level.

Maybe somebody shifted the lens without realizing it or something. But the slight 'tiltedness' of the machine is still a little boggling. But it doesn't effect the Flat.. so.. maybe my leveler is screwed up.... meh
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-09-2004, 10:30 PM:
 
Maybe the whole building is tilted by the same degree. The end result will look the same - level when you are inside. You have nothing to compare it with.

Take some level measurements at various location. You will be suprised on what you might find....especially of it is a very old building. I remember very well the Lido Theater in Mount Vernon. When we had it, I would have to go in there a couple of times a year and adjust the steel suspension rods with a king-sized wrench about 3 feet long to raise the ceiling of the concession area enough so the entrance doors would open and close freely. Luckly, I never had a suspension rod break, but I have to admit with the amount of "butt" I had to put behind the wrench (sometimes with a big cheater pipe) that thought did entertain my mind slightly. I listened for gross abnormal creeks and groans when I made these adjustments, with the idea of maybe I might become a track star upon exiting the building.

Some of the buildings that have wooden projection booths floors can cause some nightmares. Namely, when the entire complex settles or gets jostled by an earthquake, it might be necessary to make some adjustments to compensate for it, especially if the building "twisted" a little. (look at the cracks in the plaster....)

Cheesch!!!! I know of several wooden floor projection booths. When there is a 300-lb manager that rumbles through the booth, the projectors bounce like tin cans.

As an experiment one time, I used my index finger and nudged it against a projector console. With a slight push of my finger over a period of a minute or so, I could make it develop a harmonic rocking that took several seconds to subside after I took my finger off.

If you want to get a laugh, just try it in some booths.

Unfortunately, too many theater designers (who appear to be in bed with their local lumber dealer who happens to be their brother or brother-in-law) produce these type of buildings. This is commonly known as the "Brother-In-Law" effect which you see in industry time and time again.

Or, they are just too darn cheap to build it right!
 

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Posted by David Ingalsbe (Member # 2433) on 06-10-2004, 02:20 AM:
 
To shed some light on the floting projector above the nuts the highlight II's have a jam nut on the feet. The feet screw up in to the console and the nut when tight against the console will keep them from spining.
 

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