Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: I have diagonal emulsion scratches on my Riddick print

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 06-25-2004, 09:57 PM:

How does this happen? I know I threaded it right. I wasn't working when it happened. It is sporadic on the right side towards the center.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-25-2004, 11:24 PM:

324 posts and you still haven't learned the basics of posting help topics???

What kind of projectors? What kind of platters? Do you run soundtrack up or down? Describe the scratches in painful detail too.

Posted by Peter Mork (Member # 1336) on 06-25-2004, 11:58 PM:

Not easy to diagnose fron here. One thing to do is examine the scratches and see if they repeat in a pattern. For instance, if a long scratch repeats every six inches, then a roller of that circumference is the likely culprit.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-26-2004, 12:18 AM:

Brenkert....Intermittent sprocket film stripper is not adjusted correctly and probably bent.

Ballentyne PRO-35....That lay-on roller before the holdback sprocket is probably of the old style. Normally, they give horizontal scratches.

Simplex in general: Intermittent film sprocket stripper loose and ready to fall off.

Century: Same thing.

Platters: Badly warped dish. If I got this correct by thinking the sound track is wound down on the platter instead of up, the warled platter could give emulsion scratches.

Just a few ideas....

You said

quote: Richard Greco
It is sporadic on the right side towards the center

Right side on the screen? That would be side opposite the sound track. Could be the angle roller on the platter (CFS, POTTS, Strong)

More than likely, the film is beating in the projector or partially derailing in the pay-out head, probably the film stripper.

Could be a roller going "Wooga Wooga," too.

If it is just slightly off center, I would guess a sprung or loose film stripper rather than the platter. If it is a pro-35, replace that lay-on roller between the int sprocket and the holdback, or just take them off and throw them in your bone box.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-26-2004, 05:54 AM:

In addition to Brad's questions, a photo of the affected frames also helps diagnose the cause of any scratches or abrasion marks. The exact repeat pattern can identify a particular roller or component. Diagonal scratches are almost always platter scratches, or from film riding up on a roller.

Posted by Fabrice Dubourg (Member # 1635) on 06-26-2004, 06:58 AM:

Platter, I suppose
when make-up table output roller is not at the same level as the platter used to mount the film

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 06-26-2004, 08:11 AM:

OK

Sorry

Platters are Speco LP-270
Projectors are Century SA
Soundheads are Century

It didn't happen during buildup because it was fine during the screening.
I think it was the other projectionist last week.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-26-2004, 09:31 AM:

I guess the key is how far apart are the bursts of scratchs and then how far apart are the individual scratchs
If they are in the centre area I would bet it is a roller that has intermitently stopped turning and that the film was incorrectly threaded over it so that it gouged every so often
One should be able to ind emulsion residue where the problem occured

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-26-2004, 02:22 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
What kind of projectors? What kind of platters? Do you run soundtrack up or down? Describe the scratches in painful detail too.

Well Richard, you answered HALF of the questions. You sure you want answers? [Razz]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-26-2004, 04:25 PM:

Maybe we should ask that doorperson [Big Grin]

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 06-26-2004, 11:33 PM:

ok, the other two answers are...

Soundtrack is up.

The scratches are green and just to the right of the center on screen. They are diagonal. They sort of strobe past like they arent on every frame. They range from top to botton screen. I don't think the average customer would notice it but I did.

And Gordon, I know you are being sarcastic, but that doorperson is in a wheelchair.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 06-26-2004, 11:52 PM:

Okay, this thread is getting dumb.

First off, Mr. Miller asked THREE questions, and made one demand. Mr. Greco answered two of the three, thereby answering TWO THIRDS not HALF of the questions.

Second, just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean you can't ask them questions. And sarcasm has nothing to do with their handicap.

Anymore fisticuffs like this, and I am closing this thread. [Mad]

=TMP=

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 06-27-2004, 12:08 AM:

Check your rollers for misalighnment. Make sure the picture area is not rubbing across the deck of the platter. Make sure the film is not running up on the flangs of the rollers causing the surface of the picture area to rub against the keeper rollers.

Make sure when the film makes it's return path to the takeup platter, the sound track needs to be close to the roller tree when it coms off the final return roller. So that the film doesn't bounce as it is winding around the ring.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-27-2004, 01:15 AM:

quote: Richard Greco
They are diagonal. They sort of strobe past like they arent on every frame. They range from top to botton screen.

Which direction are they diagonal? And what do you mean by "strobe past" and "range from top to bottom screen"?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-27-2004, 01:41 AM:

Has the problem gotten worse, or was it a one-time deal? If it was a one-time deal, you'll probably never find the problem. More than likely, it was a derailment on a roller or a cocked roller.

Make up a reel of "clean previews," run it through a couple of times and see if the scratches are there. If not, it was a threading error when the orginal damage occurred.

I see this as a common problem in a poorly lit booth. A poorly lit booth is a disaster waiting for a place to happen.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-27-2004, 09:10 AM:

Are they the same distance apart i they are I would start looking for a roller issue since the film will travel in a linear speed across it. If the distance is getting farther apart then I would look at an issue with the take up on the platter rubbing the deck Since they are emulsion scratchs a clean cloth and alchol wash down of all the rollers and equipment will probably find a build up of residue from where the scratch occured

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 06-27-2004, 10:14 AM:

They are this direction /

But not with as much angle. About a 45 degree angle. When I say say strobe, I mean they flash on screen really quick. It might be the top, center, or bottom of the screen. I havent gotten a chance to physically check the film yet. I'll do that tonight when I go in.

I did notice it isn't in the commercials, but when the previews start, it is there.

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 06-27-2004, 10:52 AM:

That is most likely because the commercials generally change each week, so they were probably put on after the print was scratched.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-27-2004, 11:15 AM:

If your specco's have the white rollers that are made in two halves I have seen the film actually slid into the slot between the two halves on a splice going though and create that type of scratch but my bet is that is was sitting on the flange of a roller from a misthread [Mad]

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 06-27-2004, 03:32 PM:

I have the white rollers. I think you are right about it slidingbetween. Oh well, there's nothing I can do about it now. I appreciate knowing how it was done so I can help prevent it in the future.