quote:

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he has now installed a Century and Zenon(sic)

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Apparently he finally got a clue and upgraded...

IMO, Standards and Supers are nothing more than museum pieces if in very good condition, and scrap metal if not.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 06-28-2004, 10:11 PM:
 
Aaron,

Did not get a "clue" as you so eloquently put it and upgraded just for the sake of upgrading.
If it were not for the impending Cyan track and the fact that finding a real projectionist or two in my patch who can handle or knows what cues are and keep a carbon lamp on trim I would STILL be running the Simplex Standards over very old Westrex heads (206A) that do not have rotary stabilisers.
Even carbon supplies are still plentiful from Carbon Imports in NZ so no real reason to change.
Only problems ever were main drive belts parting and always when you have a full house and end up madly fusing together the busted belt between reels.
Occasionally the odd TU belt also parted but I had a an old clip together springy one I could whack on while the machine was going and gather up all the film of the floor back onto the spool without stopping the show (Film Done Right?? I doubt it but the show went on).
However I put a few feelers out to try and flush out some people who could handle a two machine setup and got quite a few who fronted up announcing that they were projectionists... HA!
They took one look and wanted to know "where was the platter" and then the thought of actually having to be close by the machines all night doing changes and everything else that goes with a C/O setup shook their confidence totally... and they left.
One complained that it would be a problem for his back to lift 2k spools of film onto the feed shaft as they were too heavy
As it was IF I was sick there was NO show as there was nobody else about who would do it apart from one mate who could do some but was frequently in the North of WA with his family... no real backup.
What started out as a passion type of hobby has grown into a fairly full on summer business and any business cannot survive with a stop/go attitude so good business sense meant that I had to get weaving on getting the Century up and going.
Was a lot of work going over the Century with a fine toothed comb at home in my garage and when I was confident that all was well with that combo I had to go about getting the old girls out.
This past season all was done and things looked fine and dandy until I encountered the focus popping with the Century which finally was sorted out and things are probably as good as I can get them.
We are ready for Cyan with a ACL laser unit driven from the existing exciter supply thru a small regulator mounted on the old exciter lamp bracket... it does not care what voltage or whether it is AC or DC supplied.. gives me a nice clean 3.5V DC.
The Xenon light is as good as the carbons were and the surround sound scrubs up OK for an outdoor setting.
IF the Century CC proves as reliable as the Simplex pair did over 7 seasons of about 90 sessions per season I will be delighted and NOW I can almost get "any" projectionist to walk in and do a show IF I have to be elsewhere.
What to do with the old Simplex pair is now a problem as they have served me so well I almost cannot chuck them onto the tip. So, until I have to really clean out my big shed that is where they will stay all tucked up nice and warm and dry.
There are still a few sites in OZ that run Simplex Standards but I guess those sites will have a few decisions to make as Cyan moves in and they have to think about the older type soundheads.
The Simplexes were built like the proverbial tank, heavy as all hell but very well engineered and as Frank Angel noted in another post this industry as it is, is so "backward compatible", the "D" revolution will have to be really something out of the box when a machine built in 1927 can last so long and STILL put up a creditable performance.
IMO Simplex are PRICELESS.

Lindsay

PS, Ask me in 5 years time what I think of the Century!!
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 06-29-2004, 12:27 AM:
 
Aaron

In actuality, the Standards were well built machines, and they are even capable of some things that some modern machines are not (like adjusting travel ghosting as needed, while the film is running).

Aaron, I have personally seen Standards and old Powers that looked like they were ready for the trash heap. They were simply disassembled, cleaned up and put back together. Even though some parts were worn, they still ran smooth! As I stated before, some of the problems can be solved by inserting bushings.

You degrade Standards...but you tend to forget that many companys cam into being by duplicating those machines...or at least serving as parts suppliers. You also forget that althoug "improved", many of the basic design concepts used on Standards are still incorporated into projectors today.

Have you ever had the chance to examine a Powers up close? Some of the craftsmanship that went into those machines is awesome, and would literally cost a fortune to do today!
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-29-2004, 01:45 AM:
 
"In actuality, the Standards were well built machines, and they are even capable of some things that some modern machines are not (like adjusting travel ghosting as needed, while the film is running)"
hmm Centurys' Simplex XL's have travel ghost shutter timing knobs even Motiograph AAA's do

The Powers was a unique machine and the movement deserves renewed intrest but the rest of it does not
It had many issues in the field in its day

The standard and the super and even the E7 are now due for "green pastures"
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 06-29-2004, 03:27 AM:
 
Gord,

The only reason E-7's are due for "green-pastures" is because of the lack of available parts and knowledgeable Projectionists.

From my understanding, a properly maintained and adjusted E-7 produces about the steadiest image of any projector ever built.

I have seen some of the early hand-cranked Powers machines. All of the parts were beefed up, and the quality of all that nickel plating would cost a small fortune today!
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-29-2004, 10:08 AM:
 
The powers is a beutiful to look at machine but the very short gate had steadiness issues as well as it ran very hot
even when they got converted to a rear shutter they were still very hot
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-29-2004, 11:26 PM:
 
It would be awesome to see a Super or Standard either on a soundhead fitted with a basement reader or with the digital penthouse of your choice, with a modern lens and backed up by a good lamp and cranking out state of the art picture (and sound)...in a booth adjacent to a DLP machine. It would be great when visitors come up to see the digital box and you start talking about a century of compatibility and the economics of digital. All the while the worthless piece of scrap metal is entertaining the masses for $9.50 a head.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2004, 12:52 AM:
 
I usually pulled the movement from the machine and tossed the rest in the trash.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 07-01-2004, 12:57 AM:
 
Supers are awesome! When I run them outside in my driveway all the oil keeps the dust down.
 

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Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 07-01-2004, 07:47 AM:
 
I can't understand why everyone says they leak so much? The base plate of a standard anyway is designed in such a way any oil in the operator sides drains into 2 side gutters and into the back of the machine. There are 2 holes, one at the front of the machine and one at the back so depending if you have the machine point at an angle up or down you can remove the screw from the hold and drain the oil. All 3 ones I have don't have a screw in place so I am guessing most don't and that is why they leak so much. Steve has a very good point, a machine that everyone says is scrap can put on a very good quality show and yet is from the 1930s or earlier! Again if anyone has any or parts for these machines please let me know!
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 02:02 AM:
 
It is like the days of old. The old shipboard steam engines had open crankcases. The person called the oiler was spraying oil on the moving parts while the engines were running.

The old projectors were the same way. They throw oil all over the place. The more you use, the more you are going to have on the floor.

And, I agree...an old good running Simplex Regular, Super, or E-7 will beat the pants off just about any machine out there as far as picture steadiness is concerned. And, they can take one helluva amount of abuse before they finally crap out on you.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-02-2004, 08:10 AM:
 

quote: Will Kutler

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One possible solution that is one of my many "get-around-to-it" projects is to over-bore the mainframe casting and press-in oil-lite bushings.

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quote: Lindsay Morris

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I put a few feelers out to try and flush out some people who could handle a two machine setup and got quite a few who fronted up announcing that they were projectionists... HA!
They took one look and wanted to know "where was the platter"

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quote: John Pytlak

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A "projectionist" should be capable of running both reel-to-reel and platter systems.

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quote: John Pytlak

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Quickly learning to work with different equipment should come naturally to any skilled projectionist

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If presented with an opportunity to work at a theatre that uses changeovers, a good projectionist will have the skills to quickly learn how to put on a good show. An unskilled "threader" or "button pusher" will not adapt easily, if at all.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 04:55 PM:
 
I agree with your second comment wholeheartedly. I'll cough up the apology on this one as I read your post above as two different points and as such misconstrued your meaning.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 07:59 PM:
 
I fully agree with John's comment. Generally, (but not always) a typical professional projectionist who came up through the ranks of carbon arc and reel-to-reel systems are more "in tune" with the machinery, and knows how to maintain and run them.

They know what to do to get back on the screen without calling a tech in event of an equipment failure.

Many of the professional reel-to-reel carbon arc projectionists were required to change an intermittant and time the shutter between reels. Today's projectionists (by a large number) don't even know which end of the "camera" the light comes out of.

I have seen this so many times that it is disgusting.

"You know that axle that sticks out of the back of the camera that has a fan blade on it? Well, it does not turn."

This was a quote made to me by a platter operator projectionist when a shutter gear was stripped. This operator has had at least 5 years experience in the booth. But he did not come up through the professional ranks. He was a button-puncher threader, nothing more, nothing less.

When I was on the road servicing, rarely did I ever have an emergency call from a union house with union operators or a non-union house equipped with a professional projectionist that experienced a sound system, electronic, electrical or mechanical breakdown of their equipment.

They instinctively knew how to handle it.

I have to also add this: When I point out to a projectionist that the porthole is in very dire need of cleaning to the point where the picture on the screen looks like it was projected through a milkshake glass, I question their professionalism when they tell me that "It is not within my job description." You would be surprised how much I heard an excuse like that.

Professionalism????? HAH! Those who use a lame excuse like that would not even make a healthy pimple on a professional projectionist's butt!
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 08:24 PM:
 
Welcome to modern times, Paul. The job no longer pays for people who can service their own equipment. So long as the employers pay a rate for monkey threaders, that is exactly what they get. You're barking up the wrong tree. Go yell at the people responsible for using floor staff and paying minimum wage.

In this day and age, the real professionals are the ones who put forth the extra effort and put on a top notch show, even though they aren't getting paid to put on a professional show. I visited Chris Hipp's 30 plex about a week ago and you know what, the presentation there was pretty damned good and almost certainly better than what was possible with good operators and the equipment available 30 years ago. And that's 30 screens frequently being run by one person at or near minimum wage!!! Don't even try to tell me that isn't impressive. Geez, just because the year is 2004 doesn't automatically mean that everything sucks, and not every "kid" is a shitty projectionist either. I would put some of the 18 year olds that I have trained up against you or just about anyone else. It DOES happen. Sure it's not commonplace, but there IS professionalism out there. Ease up there a bit, big fella.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 09:18 PM:
 
You're on, Brad. Just let me become familiar with the booth, and I'll take on anybody.

I'll make you a deal. You pick up all expenses, and if I don't beat whoever I am up against in the booth, I'll re-imburse you every penny! But let me say again...give me a few days to become familiar with the booth.

It would also give us an excellent opportunity for us to discuss a few items.....

Let me do it my way, and he/she can do it his/her way.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 09:22 PM:
 
How much time do you need to get acquainted with the booth? Do you need training, or am I to presume by your post that you can figure everything out on your own?

How many passes of the print shall we do before print inspection at the end of the test?

Yes, there will be interlocking.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 09:25 PM:
 
Like I say, I would like to have the opportunity to at least observe the equipment, what its limitations are, and how hard I can work it. I like to push the envelope.

Depends on the booth, too. remember, I have not done interlocking in over 15 years. And then, I didn't have sync motors, either.

Probably two days of observing, one day of practice to get fine tuned, and we can do battle.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 09:28 PM:
 
No, no, no, no, no. Don't spout off about how in the old days there were professionals running the booth and then try to weasel your way out of not doing the full job of today. According to you, it shouldn't matter what kind of equipment is installed, or what the layout is, or what it takes to run it.

Either you are a professional and you can quickly adapt to anything, or you are not. Your words!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-02-2004, 09:28 PM:
 
Ok...I'll take part of that action! I agree 100% with Brad.

Who do yous have in mind for the competition? Chris? Josh? Thomas? Tony? Tim? My $ are on those guys!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 09:32 PM:
 
Bah! Even in the unions, we had "booth checkouts" before we were allowed to grind up prints. (remember one instance last October?)

I thought it was funnier than hell, but I didn't have the heart to razz you about it.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 09:38 PM:
 
Ooooooooh, a 30 year old brittle as hell acetate print snapped on me after bashing the living crap out of my head and forgetting to check a tension setting in my dizziness. Yeah, you don't have the "heart". Uh huh.

By the way, you must be crazy if you think I am going to take on this bet without winning anything. The way you want to do it is that I put forth all of your expenses, then when I prove you wrong, I gain nothing. Let's put some cash on it. I say $1000 plus the loser pays your travel expenses. I pick the theater. (To be fair it will be 8 screens or less.) You get two shifts to observe, one shift to work it on your own where you may ask questions, then you run the place non-stop for 2 weeks with everything that the job entails. Heck, we'll even put you on payroll for your hours worked where you don't screw up.

*Late show starts = fail. (We'll give you one freebie here.)
*Film interruption = fail. (We'll give you one freebie here too.)
*Botched presentation (lights/masking/basic stuff) = fail. (Aww heck, you can have a freebie here as well.)
*Scratched print or print damage of any kind = fail...no exceptions! Plus you pay for the replacement print.

EASY MONEY!
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-02-2004, 09:41 PM:
 
Phil, I am angry and insulted that you did not list me in your post. You are BANNED![av=h]

I would pay to see Paul battle Antonio Marcheselli. No Ccinnemmaccanniccaccas allowed!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-02-2004, 09:45 PM:
 
I'm Banned AGAIN! Holy Smokes!

Joe, get a life! We were talking about "kids", NOT old geezers like you! PULZEEZE!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 09:45 PM:
 
I don't bet cash. Bad business. I'll pull a slot machine once in a while, but I consider that as recreational expenses.

As I mentioned, you flip the bill for me to come down there, with a gentleman's agreement that if I lose, I'll re-emburse you to the last penny. If you feel more comfortable, I'll compromise 50% I'll put up half, you put up half. Then, it is winner take all if you can agree to the idea that you will pay my half.

Remember, I am out the normal wages I would make from my job at the radio station.

Naturally, I would have to get permission from my employer to absent myself from the radio station. If he does not give me permission, the deal will not happen. I think that is fair.

I would offer you the same courtesy if the shoe was on the other foot.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-02-2004, 09:59 PM:
 
Brad & Paul... I'll take $1000 of that! Ummmm, for the "kids" ...oh and if I win, I'll donate it to a charity of the winner's choice.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 10:10 PM:
 
Brad said:

quote: Brad Miller

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*Late show starts = fail. (We'll give you one freebie here.)
*Film interruption = fail. (We'll give you one freebie here too.)
*Botched presentation (lights/masking/basic stuff) = fail. (Aww heck, you can have a freebie here as well.)
*Scratched print or print damage of any kind = fail...no exceptions! Plus you pay for the replacement print.

---

Hmmm....you are too easy. I ran my first booth 49 years ago. Got my 35mm license in 1967. Serviced 148 screens on a regular route for 3 years. Union sanctioned as a technician about 10 years ago.

Have not lost a show or botched a show in eons. I ground up one print - about 25 years ago. Scatched a print about 20 years ago. Both instances were due to equipment failures. (one in a BX-60 sitting on top an Eprad Sword, and the other was a sprung film trap on a Pro-35 because some doofus dropped the damn thing and didn't say anything about it.

I average about 1 OOF come-on per year, and that's because I was not paying attention.
 

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Posted by Darren Crimmins (Member # 1116) on 07-02-2004, 10:11 PM:
 
Paul,

I am not sure if you really know what you are getting yourself into. I work with Brad at a couple of theaters and know exactly which theater he is going to want you to work at. It is not a traditional booth and no matter how much experience you have, something will trip you up and cause you to loose the bet. Just giving you some friendly advice to think about before getting involoved in anything like this.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 10:17 PM:
 
I know what I am getting myself into. I was trained by the best there is, shattered the 35mm MPO school record, and been in all types of booths for 35 years now. I think this would be fun.

If Brad wants me to buy the print if I damage it, he'll have to make sure I start with a brand new print - not one HOS that has been through his or anybody else's machines. And then, if some freak thing happens with the machines that may damage the print that was due to some mechanical failure of the equipment, he can stuff the print up his RRR!

If this battle comes to pass, it won't be overnight. It will take time. I have a 93 year old father in poor health, a mother that is not too far from the same age, a thransmitter installation, a couple of service calls, and other personal plans.

When the time is right, it'll happen.
 

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Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 07-02-2004, 10:22 PM:
 
I'd have to 2nd Darren's statement. Either of the booths that Brad could wager the bet at are faily complex, and very un-standard in many repects. While I may be just a "kid" I do know that to run the booth there, it takes learning quite a few new tricks.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 10:22 PM:
 
Paul, you will be running whatever movies are currently playing. The day before you start, you may screen in part or their entirity any and all prints. You won't find any marks though. And unless you are abusive to the equipment, it won't break.

Just remember your words and attitude regarding this situation. You will in all probability be eating them later and yes there will be video downloads. Reread Darren's post. I'm not going to dump you into any kind of normal booth! hehehe
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 10:23 PM:
 
We'll see...I am not as stupid as many of you think.

Sometimes I get the impression you guys think I don't know what I am doing in a booth. If so, you are all in for a surprise.

Now the more complicated the booth is, the more time I want to watch it run and analyze it. Each booth is different.

Brad, send me a pic of the booth you intend to do this in, and be prepared to answer technical questions.

I hope we can pull this challenge off. It would make my day.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-02-2004, 10:26 PM:
 
I ran one of Brad's booth's one night while he sat there and surfed the internet for porn to use on the intermission slides. It took me two sets to figure out what the hell was going on, and even then I surely wasn't 100% confident about it. I even threaded a movie for Jason (he wanted to watch the Olsen twins movie) and I even "missed a spot" on that one. No damage of course, but still. Wow.[av=s]
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 10:27 PM:
 
Pictures??? Oh no, that's cheating! A PROFESSIONAL can waltz into any ol' booth and figure things out. YOUR WORDS! You don't need pictures. (Suddenly I feel evil, like Phil!)

Joe, remember now, all you did was thread a couple of shows that day...nothing fancy. Think he could handle some of the more "fun" things we do?
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 10:29 PM:
 
Joe, as long as you put your pants on the same way as everyone else - one leg at a time - and as long as you shit between your heels, you are gonna f*** up.

Remember, nobody is perfect. F****** up is a normal part of life.

Brad, I had to walk in strange booths and get them on the screen. Several of those booths I never ever been in. But still, the shows went without a hitch. I am not lying about that, either! One was a 6-Plex Christie booth, and I haven't been in one of those for years. I had to rely on my previous knowledge as a service tech and general showmanship/pojectionist duties that I have accrued trough the years. I was quite proud of that one.

But Brad, if you think a Cessna pilot will perfectly fly a Boeing 757 aircraft without any training, you have a brown stain in your undies.

Like booth for a like booth...that's what I am asking for.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-02-2004, 10:32 PM:
 
Hmmm...me thinks someone is making excuses for a basis to whimp out of putting $ where their mouth is/was... And I don't mean Joe!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 07-02-2004, 10:35 PM:
 

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

I know what I am getting myself into. I was trained by the best there is, shattered the 35mm MPO school record, and been in all types of booths for 35 years now. I think this would be fun.

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quote: Paul Thompson wrote:

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My score was 96.25 out of 99.

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[av=c]My score was 612 out of 99.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 10:53 PM:
 
Yeah, right, Joe.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-02-2004, 10:58 PM:
 
A "complex booth"? WTF?

Sure, there are several different pieces of equipment out there that have different threading patterns...but projectors are projectors and have been doing the same basic thing since day 1.

By "complex booths"..if your talking about interlocking...then that is DEFINATELY FILM DONE WRONG AND CHEAP!!!
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 07-02-2004, 10:59 PM:
 
Could be an interesting "Film Off" between Paul and whoever Brad decides to utilise... would love to be there.
And I am probably what Phil would call an "old geezer" at 64 but can still find my way around many bio boxes so be careful of Paul he may just surprise you all!

I got back into movies about 12 years ago and had NEVER seen a platter going when I was asked to take on some shifts at a cinema in Perth.
Went in one night and watched what went on with the Christie platters and then observed the breakdown process of the print that night and made lotsa notes to myself.
The following week I was in there doing 2 nights 6pm to midnight and on the second night had to breakdown one of the prints that was coming off that week.
Never seen automation or interlocking etc but some time skulking about, notebook in hand, and many questions later I think I would have a fair idea of what to do. Bound to be some stuff ups as with anything new and with any process it is a matter of finding out what the box layout is all about and then working that info into how you run the show.

To Tim Reed... would have grabbed you with glee Tim as some of those who did front up were not even prepared to give it a try and the thought of having to be around the machines for the whole show was just too much for them.
I was well trained in not only doing a good show but also being resourceful and keeping the pix up on the sheet come what may .....even down to carrying out most major maintenance. The owners of the place I started built their own BIG outdoor cinema with a big brick screen (55 feet wide)and later on built their own DI from the ground up.. They were resourceful people and took immense pride in what they were doing and the standard of the shows they put on.
Things have indeed moved on and if it were not for automation etc the cinema industry would not be where it is today.. TV would have killed it totally. But ways were found to run booths more cost effectively and although I do not agree with the very minimal training most new kids get in a box it probably has to be
to survive.
Since I got back into the biz I have drifted into an arthouse setup over winter time in a quite nicely appointed box (16, 35 & dare I say it VIDEO)and in that environment have honed my skills making up and breaking down one and sometimes two prints each Sunday night. Some prints are nightmares to handle due to their age and previous handlings or should I say "butcherings" when you are peeling splices apart which are on the LAST cue mark of the reels as previous prats have simply chopped and chopped and chopped and in many cases been too lazy to peel apart a splice with tape on one side only
Now down to a stage when I can build a print onto the platter going from cores to 6000 footers to platter and it takes me about 8 minutes per reel to build a print and about the same time to break down... most time is spent waiting for the 6000 to load or come off.
But fellas we are bit of topic here as we were talking about Simplex units and their relative worth... quite fascinating to watch how strands dart off.
The Simplexes that I have handled had quite astonishing machining tolerances for their day and age and very simple tried and proven techniques for keeping the oil where it should be with spirals in shafts spreading the oil about but winding it back so it did not overload the quite simple cord type seals on the ends of most of the casting borings.
There was never any real need to splatter oil everywhere in the innards and my first encounter with a Simplex Standard was at the DI my friends built. There he had overhauled each machine and had them spotless and rarely did any oil ever find its way onto the floor and even though they had something like 120 amps on the lamphouse with 16" mirrors the water jacket did its job and the machines purred on for years throwing that huge image up onto the big DI screen which was about 90 feet wide,if my memory is correct.
The pair I have recently pulled out I had line bored on the top feed sprocket by a machinist mate of mine... which was a total strip down to ZILCH on the casting so he could do it. He is a first rate machinist and his accuracy and precision is something he takes intense pride in and he was quite impressed by the engineering principles utilised in the Simplex head.
The wear on most shafts was almost non existant and given the number of feet of film these these old girls had pulled through in their lifetime/s it was quite amazing. (To measure the wear we looked at the shaft diams on unused sections to those in the actual bearing housings and in most cases very little wear at all was to be found.)
Odd looking things and a bit butt ugly and an awkward thread path but OK once you had done it a few times no real worries .
Where ever else I encountered these things in various single screen locations and many DI's they all just kept on grinding on. Some were noisy and some leaked oil like a sieve thru shot seals in the intermittent and others that formed puddles were just over oiled and never cleaned up .
My two virtually never dripped anything onto the carpet tiles and were always kept clean and wiped down. Take the lens out at the end of summer, spray them with some CRC and then cover them for winter.
Next season, a spot or two of oil here and there, wind them over by hand and then power them up and let them run a bit and then ready for another summer after being idle for 7 months.
Never missed a beat and even though the sound heads had NO rotary stabiliser the big flywheel kept the sound clean of any wow or flutter and my only criticsm would be THAT flywheel.
IF you ever had a film pile up the machine kept on running for quite a few seconds after switching off munching much more film than I ever liked to see... maybe it needed a "panic brake" like the RCA 1050 series and upwards.
Never tangled with Brenkerts, Motiographs or anything else apart from the Aussie made stuff like Raycophone, C&W and Super Standards etc. Later exposure has been on VIC 8's and Ballantyne Pro 35 etc and more recently the shift to Century/Westrex for my own setup.
Simplex might be worth nothing on S/H market but a well maintained unit will last one hell of a long time and have been used with a platter so could sustain long periods of running but realisticly not an option in a modern box as the mech really needs to be oil bath operation for ultimate reliability.

Look forward to seeing how Paul Thompson copes

Lindsay
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 10:59 PM:
 
Mark, the booth is completely logical, but we do things most other booths simply do not do. This is what the owners of the cinema have ordered, and they do pay properly for having qualified people to run it. By no means can the typical multiplex guy walk in and run it.

By the way, Paul would be in a battle against the booth itself and the requirements put forth to him on the schedule. Putting him up against another operator isn't necessary.

Paul's first day will be to run a single print in 3 auditoriums with the start times staggered 20 minutes, then reset in 5 minute's time for another round. Again, this is with one print, not three, with 20 minutes in between each show start. That's 4000 feet of film that is not on the platter at any given point in time. (I am fairly certain that these are the only theaters in the world who can run delayed interlocks.) Will and Paul, you guys getting it yet? To run this place you have to throw out just about everything you have learned about normal booth operation, whether it was in the military or not. Think I'm kidding? Just what do you think is behind Darren Crimmins in his member picture? Out of respect for Paul I am telling you that he WILL fail if he thinks he can walk into this place and just pick it up the crazy things that are done there without some fairly serious training. Most theaters out there, sure I've no doubt he could go in and do at bare minimum an acceptable job, and in all probability a superb job...just not here. He would have to go through the same extended training all of the other guys have had to go through to operate it properly, and "properly" is the key word to prevent having a clusterfuck of a disaster on your hands.

Be careful with those bets, Paul.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 11:02 PM:
 
Lindsey, I am an "Old Geezer" too...just 6 months from turning 65.

Hey...that's a good title...."A Film-Off"

Kinda like the "Fart-Off's" on board ship.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-02-2004, 11:02 PM:
 
BFD Joe! I scored 217.95 out of 23!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 11:06 PM:
 
Brad said:

quote: Brad Miller

---

Out of respect for Paul I am telling you that he WILL fail if he thinks he can walk into this place and just pick it up the crazy things that are done there without some fairly serious training.

---

Brad, what do you think I asked tor two days of observation and one day of practice? I am aware of that. It can't be efficiently done.

I ain't no nincompoop like some think I am.

I just want an even playing field.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-02-2004, 11:08 PM:
 
Being able to do a complex interlock as Brad described is the matter of learning the particular system...and does not have anything to do with FILM DONE RIGHT or BEING AN ALL-AROUND SHOWMAN!

My personal opinion...a multiple interlck as Brad described is in my book FILM DONE WRONG! Sounds like with this system there is no time to even clean the film-path between shows?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-02-2004, 11:09 PM:
 

quote: Lindsay Morris

---

I am probably what Phil would call an "old geezer"

---

Oh PULEEZE! I'm NOT referring to a physical age...but how one thinks...

There are old guys that are "young" and there are young guys that are old "geezers"!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 11:10 PM:
 
Why? Because no one has ever picked up some of the things we do with even 3 full days of training, that's why. Basic straightforward threading with nothing fancy, letting the CA21 automation do 100% of the work, yeah you could most probably pick that up from observing, but not some of the weirdness put on the guys at these places.

BTW you do realize I wouldn't have taken your money if we had've bet. I just wanted to see how far you would push the "I can operate anything with virtually no training" bit. I may have a couple of pictures laying around here. Let me look.

Will - get your ass down here and find anything wrong with the prints. ANYTHING! I can assure you these theaters have the best prints in the area, hands down, no contest. Film done right is being able to run a print without damage. If that entails running it reel to reel through a Simplex Standard or interlocking it across town between 100 projectors it doesn't matter. Geez, wake up buddy. I think you are starting to qualify for Phil's definition of "geezer".
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2004, 11:16 PM:
 
This thread really has come alive, hasn't it?

Good! Hopefully, Brad and I can get details and BS worked out so we can have our "Fart-Off" contest.

I'm going to bed. Have to run a shithouse of movies for a 12 hour shift tomorrow. Goodnight, all.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-02-2004, 11:28 PM:
 
Brad,
As I said there is a place for complex booths and thats fine.

Paul said....
"I ain't no nincompoop like some think I am."

It WAS Paul that helped me figure out how to get the 28" wide Super Highlite console up the 27" wide stairway that had no less than two turns in it !! The guy is pretty dam good at things! Geezer he is not(thats Phils job anyway)... weezer is more like it from years of inhaling those dam cigarettes!

Mark
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 11:44 PM:
 
Yeah Paul, ya gotta admit if nothing else it's been fun! BTW I'll bite, how did you get the 28" consoles up the 27" stairs? I am assuming some form of disassembly was required?

Ok I found a few pictures. Any more will have to wait for Adam to finish the coding for daily updates to resume.

First off, this particular location is a 7 plex. It is also a dinner theater. Because of the requirements placed upon serving out over 1000 meals an hour on the weekends, the movie schedule and auditorium placement are extremely critical. Because of this, movies can and often do play in a different auditorium on a show by show basis. To make "moving prints" easier, we simply don't move them. Hence, the platter array:










All of the platters are lined up in the middle of the booth and each platter can pay out to any projector and takeup from any projector. This makes possible print moves with the snap of the fingers with no risk of damaging the film from dropping it. It also makes interlocking a snap because it is built in to the normal routine of threading.












These are what I call the "slide bars". They permit the film to be directed to any projector on either side of the array. The use of self-aligning rollers was mandatory so the rollers would pivot to match the angle of the film sag. This is a typical day, nothing special.












Again, a typical day with the films threaded up and running. Nothing weird going on this day.












Ok, so here is an example of something that we do which is a little odd. This is a shot of the ceiling during a 3 screen delayed interlock of one print. (Please pardon the poor condition of the ceiling grid, it was falling apart at the time of this picture and a new one was installed just after this picture was taken.) Delayed interlocks are convenient when it is desired to have two or more screens of a movie with different start times, but the theater doesn't want to book multiple prints and be tied into those contracts. This permits us to run say, one screen at 7:00, then a second screen at 7:20, then a third screen at 7:40 which gives the kitchen time to make all the dinners, whereas a normal interlock would wreak havoc on the kitchen getting slaughtered by multiple auditoriums worth of dinner orders all attacking it at once.







Funny after all this time no one ever noticed what Darren was standing in front of.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2004, 11:51 PM:
 


By the way, did I mention what a lazy ass Joe is?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-03-2004, 12:03 AM:
 
GOD! That pic of Joe is sooo HOT! I'm sure Jen will agree with me on that one! Hubba Hubba!

What brand shoes are you wearing, Joe?

(And what's really funny is he appears to be looking at the Film-Tech website on the monitor!)

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-03-2004, 12:07 AM:
 
Being lazy kicked ass. Brad was so lazy that he made me be lazy FOR him between sets.[av=m]


Check this out. That's me after I just threaded the Olsen Twins movie for Jason. The Olsen movie is on the middle deck, ready to start. But wait... what's that on the bottom deck? Why it's a print from another auditorium taking up, and that movie is over half way finished! This booth ain't for kids.

I fail to see how interlocking is "film done wrong", Will. How is that the case? Notice we don't tuck the tails either. And no suction cups or Bevan-Poo's are present. Uh oh.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-03-2004, 12:17 AM:
 
Josh had that same problem, Joe.


 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-03-2004, 12:28 AM:
 
So Joe, you appear to be scratching your itchy ass on that reel... Ewwww...

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-03-2004, 12:38 AM:
 
Of course Phil has the 69th post! [av=m]
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-03-2004, 01:05 AM:
 
Of course you ass! I planned that for months!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-03-2004, 01:31 AM:
 
Then, in the middle of the whole shebang a shitty splice breaks and you are up to your ass in 14,000 feet of film.

Seems to me if I was to create something like you have, I would have some kind of sensors on each and every machine that would shut the whole damn system down in case something went horse shit which would usually happen on a typical Friday night with full houses. I would presume some other precautions such as a panic button to immediately shut everything down in case of a failure were in place just in case of some problem that could not be corrected while the system was running. And, if I were the projectionist under the interlock condition you posted, you can bet your ass I would be "trooping the line" for the entire run (without my coffee or cigarette breaks) looking for and correcting potential problems just for added insurance. I would not enjoy picking up and straightening out 14,000 feet of film while the management would have to giver all their customers a rain check.

I would rather bypass one machine and lose that house than to have a huge mess intertwangled with everything in case a breaker motor feed breaker blew in the 3RD machine of the food chain.

As far as your other question was concerned,
1. In the US Navy, we were taught to fit a square peg in a round hole. Actually, that was expected of us Standard Navy-Issue Chiefs. We had to do things like that alot.
2. Yes, some disassembly was required, but not anymore than necessary.
3. The real bitch was those 90-degree corners we had to negotiate on the narrow staircase. Mark, correct me if I am wrong, but we had to have that damn thing on the screen that night.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-03-2004, 01:45 AM:
 
To me "film done wrong" is not interlocking and just ordering multiple prints, or turning customers away due to a sellout. So I guess that would make Will a showman. By showman I mean a one show at a time man.

That booth looks like it would be fun to work in! I would just want to see it though. I dont think I am at that level yet. Everything that I know, besides threading, build-up and breakdown, I have taught myself. I have not received any extensive training, but I hope to one day. For now, I do the best that I can. Damn, I wish I was a projectionist!
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-03-2004, 02:00 AM:
 

quote: Paul wrote:

---

Seems to me if I was to create something like you have, I would have some kind of sensors on each and every machine that would shut the whole damn system down in case something went horse shit like a typical Friday night with a full house.

---

quote: Paul also wrote:

---

I would presume some other precautions such as a panic button to immediatelky shut everything down in case of a failure, mechanical or otherwise in event of some problem that could not be corrected while the system was running.

---

There is a panic button. Except it is generally referred to as a "stop" button. On the CA21 I believe it is labeled as "EXIT" or something asinine, though. Those kooky Australians never get it right.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-03-2004, 02:06 AM:
 
Cool. Someone was thinking. It is about time.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-03-2004, 03:50 AM:
 
Bad splice??? Bite your tongue young man!!! We do not make "bad splices". (All feature splices are ultrasonic, all trailer splices are tape.) Anyway, no splice has ever broken or stretched, so it's been a non-issue.

Assuming your comments on the previous page were referring to the delayed interlock setup, and not typical running of a print in one screen... As far as to what makes this run, in the beginning we actually did initial testing of the theory and a few public shows without any "delayed interlock automation" by yelling "one, two, three, GOOOOOO!!!!!!!!" down the booth while everyone hit the START button at the same time. Then we all gulped a breath of air and ran around in a panic frenzy trying to see if we were about to rip the ceiling tile down with a few thousand feet of film and a truly generous dose of junk leader. (This was back in the medieval days of Strong automation and equipment, it's all been changed now.) We only had one disaster at the very beginning during the testing stages on junk film...and yes it did rip the ceiling down! We've never had a botched show, although there was one time where we had everything threaded up and within 10 seconds of the movie hitting the first screen it was noticed that the wrong print was running. That was the biggest goof, but even that was fixed with a 5 minute delay. Since to my knowledge this sort of thing had never been done, there was no documentation or other people to talk to for tips on how to make it work. The whole thing was a learning curve from just about ground zero and it took quite a bit to rig it up taking into account everything from film tension to potential static issues, to how to stop the system for an emergency or the end of the show (you can't let it tail out), and so forth.

Anyway, while initially it was about figuring out how to physically make the idea work, nowadays the system is set up 100% automated and completely safe. The automation literally controls everything, right down to controlling tension on the film. The whole scenario is old hat now, sort of like threading up a movie on one screen and walking away is for most people. Still, you can't just walk in and do it without a pretty serious understanding of precisely the steps you must do to operate it properly. Miss or screw-up a step and you're fucked.

Of course having gone through everything now, I could walk into a theater, install CA21s with the custom programming and know precisely what kind of rollers to use, precisely where and how to place them, the distances needed, required tension, etc and get the system set up perfectly on the first shot. And yes for those doubters and reel to reel boys out there, even with the most critical eye, the prints leave the theater in flawless condition, better than they arrived in every instance. There is no film damage or wear whatsoever. It's all in how you do it.
 

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Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 07-03-2004, 03:51 AM:
 

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

Then, in the middle of the whole shebang a shitty splice breaks and you are up to your ass in 14,000 feet of film

---

Dude, that's what ultrasonic splicers are for!

Seriously though, once everything is up and running, its pretty much smooth sailing. Just keep those pesky managers out of the booth - usually not too much of a problem at this theater.

By having the array, not only is moving prints so much easier, and safer, if managers decided to swap prints from once side of the building to the other, in same size houses (which we know they ALL like to do)- No Problemo! Let me move this roller, oh and this one here - Bingo, ready to go.

This booth really highlights a need that is a basic need for ANY booth operator, wether button jockey, or Mr "I know everything about the booth because dammit I was around before it was invented even" is attention to detail.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-03-2004, 03:55 PM:
 
I sure wish that the people running military theatres now would get the kind of training that Paul had.

I've been running some shows at the local Air Force base this weekend (see booth pictures under "Hanscom"), and I've been spending most of my time just cleaning and organizing stuff. It's obvious that their regular operators aren't big on film inspection or equipment maintenance. I suspect that they aren't so much lazy as they are poorly trained--i.e. the general lack of upkeep is really the fault of their employer and the lack of training provided.

On the other hand, the manager there does seem to care about presentation quality. They have a brand-new screen, new lenses are on the way, and they have done some nice sound upgrades over the last couple of years.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-03-2004, 09:45 PM:
 
They better be serving ALOT of good meals downstairs to pay for that booth and still make some profit! I bet Guttag has since had a stroke since Brad posted those pictures.

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-04-2004, 12:35 AM:
 
How would this booth cost more than any other booth, with the exception of rollers that are around $50 a pop or more (of which there are several dozen), high calibur projectors, top of the line automations, and the best sound equipment?[av=c] If you look at the platters, you can see that they have the old and chinsey black rollers. Everyone on the planet hates Christie black rollers. The designer of the black rollers eventually shot himself splattering his brains all over his bedroom wall which his wife had to clean up because he could not live with what he designed. Look at how much the theater has sacrificed and then you will see the whole picture.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-04-2004, 10:19 AM:
 
Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. The whole thing is insane. Clever but insane.
 

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Posted by Steven J Hart (Member # 2340) on 07-04-2004, 11:39 AM:
 
Brad, what happens in the dinner theater if you have a power interuption. Does everything grind to a halt smoothly?
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-04-2004, 12:26 PM:
 
A couple questions for Brad. How do you start the shows 20 minutes apart using the same print? Is it simply a matter of having 20 minutes of film running through the air before it gets to the next projector? Must be one helluva(n) interlock!

And how does the automation cotrol the tentsion on the film?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-04-2004, 01:41 PM:
 
"How would this booth cost more than any other booth"

Because you have to pay someone capable some real money to actually operate it.

according to Brad.....
"Still, you can't just walk in and do it without a pretty serious understanding of precisely the steps you must do to operate it properly. Miss or screw-up a step and you're fucked."

The way I see it the theatre owners pay someone capable a decent wage or they are fucked!

Mark
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-04-2004, 01:49 PM:
 
Mark, the percap is insane.

Steve, sure it's insane, but so is the percap, and it's all about money. If something can reliably be accomplished over and over without any negative side effects, there really is no reason not to. (For example, let's say you use the shipping reels to takeup your last show on, then put them straight into the shipping cans from the takeup arms. I don't consider that too good of an idea because of how prone the reels are to falling apart, but if it works for you over and over without film damage or problems during projection, why not?) Give me 2 screens both running changeovers and I'll show you a simultaneous interlock there as well. It can be done and it wouldn't be all that hard with CA21s running the show.

Steven, everything except for the projector motor, lamphouse, amplifiers and dimmer packs are on UPS boxes. We laugh at power interruptions.

Yes Ken, 2000 feet of film hanging in the air per 20 minutes delay. The CA21s were programmed to shut down each projector at a certain frame depending on how much film it would continue to coast through to a stop. That was with the Simplexes. We'll see what changes need to be made for the Kinotons.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 07-04-2004, 01:49 PM:
 
Okay, okay, if you all insist, I will comment. Warning for people with no sense of humor: Post contains joke. Read no further if you can't grasp the concept of funny.

I saw the pics. That setup would never work down here in FL. Too much humidity. All those strips of film floating in the air would be nice and sticky by the time they took up on a platter.

That's another thing I didn't understand. Why the dumb look from Joe when he's figuring out how to thread a movie on a platter that's got something taking up already? The AW3 can take up two prints at once... I don't get the "trauma"...

And lastly, all that interlocking and those billions of rollers and hundreds of platters and film going everywhere looks like just a means of "showing off" that things can be accomplished more complicatedly (is that a real word?) than necessary. A REAL theater that was concerned with the bottom line would just install another projector on the 3 critical screens, and run changeover. Every 20 minutes or so, you could have another start time in another house with a greatly reduced risk. Then they could fire Brad and hire Paul at half the cost.

***EDIT*** BRAD POSTED THE SAME TIME I DID THAT THEY USE UPS BOXES FOR POWER STABILITY. DISREGARD THIS:

And all this talk of flawlessness and that this or that catastrophe would NEVER happen is just hot air. A couple power spikes and it could throw things out of whack bad enough to cave in the cieling. And if you say that can't happen, I've had it happen. A quick power fluctuation is often all it takes to stop one machine but keep the others going. And yes, we had automation controlled interlocks.

A very cool setup, but unnecessary. And a REAL PROFESSIONAL projectionist doesn't need the aid of a stepstool to reach the top platter. About as professional as opaque yellow tape to find splices quicker.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-04-2004, 01:59 PM:
 
Actually yes it could work in FL. A few modifications may be needed to the roller structure, but it can be done. No print is ran without FG anyway. There is no "sticky".

Adding another projector and lamphouse on the 3 critical screens (which actually all 7 are critical) and then hire Paul to run those, you still would have to hire someone to run the others as no one could run 2000' changeovers with only a couple of minutes between the time one reel ends to the time it has to start on the next machine and be able to keep up with all of the other screens. Plus then there's the whole re-building the prints back up when delayed interlocks weren't happening, which somehow would happen sometimes for just one round during the evening, and then miraculously be re-assembled for the late show. It's impossible. Even putting those issues aside, not only would the equipment costs be higher, but so would the operation cost. Doing the math, this is not only the cheaper way, but the more efficient way. (Unnecessary "showing off" would be interlocking one print between two nearby theater complexes.)

Remember too we have on many occasion tied all 7 screens together with one print...and staggered showtimes.

The stepstool is not used to reach the top platter, nor is it used to thread. It's for petty things like cleaning high places.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 07-04-2004, 02:06 PM:
 
Hmmm. Very Very interesting. It's hard to see exactly what's happening with just the pics and description. What do you mean by re-build the prints? Do they get "broken down" during the delayed interlock?

I can't wait for the video tour on this one. It has to be over 2 hours so we can watch all operations from show start to end. And BRAD has to star in it. "Film-Tech: The Movie" no no no... wait... "The Passion of the Tech"

Oh, what the hell. Make another tour at the UA Galaxy and call it "Fahrenheit 9+1"

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-04-2004, 02:15 PM:
 
Re: re-buiding prints

You can't run one show off of a platter, then the next show off of changeovers via 2000' reels, then go back to running shows off of a platter without constant film handling and re-building. That is far from the best interest of the film.

If we are going to run all week long with staggered showtimes on a delayed interlock, the film runs in a loop. There is no breaking down or rethreading. Remember, you can't let the film tail out.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 07-04-2004, 04:16 PM:
 
Cool A horizontal film elevator, now Brad's e-mail requests make sense . Tom's quote that it can't be done in Florida is bull. In the early 1970's at Planet Ocean in humid Miami we had a 35mm system that was automated to play 1 to 3 shows an hour in a 12 hour day. A feature of the unit was a "hold" for delaying next start for several minutes ( with countdown ) for crowd control purposes which was an elevator system in addition to the film cabinet in which the film would dump into. We tested the unit for 3 months from 45 - 98% humidity levels.....system ran for 5 years. The per cap makes this not your typical cinema with the cost savings saved in the efficient use of the restaurant end to pay for this projection set-up.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-04-2004, 04:26 PM:
 
Remember, Kodak recommends the booth remain between 50 and 60 percent RH non-condensing.

I would post the link, but I'm sure someone else will be along to post it.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-04-2004, 06:02 PM:
 

quote: Thomas Procyk wrote:

---

That's another thing I didn't understand. Why the dumb look from Joe when he's figuring out how to thread a movie on a platter that's got something taking up already? The AW3 can take up two prints at once... I don't get the "trauma"...

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

Florida sucks

---

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-04-2004, 10:20 PM:
 
How much force is being applied to the film from the sprocket that is pulling 2000' feet of film through all those rollers vs. how much force can the film stand? I note that the Disney roller cabinets have driven sprockets as well as rollers which is why these setups can run film literally until the dye fades with virtualy no wear.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-04-2004, 11:12 PM:
 
Getting back to the "contest", I wonder if there are any old good running manual carbon-arc houses running around in the DFW area. I am certain that Steve, Scott, Pete, Bob, Gordon, Mark, and myself could beat the pants off Brad and run him in circles when it comes to showmanship and quality presentation.

Brad, if you think I am going to forget about our little challenge, well, sir, you are simply out of your frikkin' tree!

What do you have available for a "training house" in your area?

Now, this would really be fun. I think we would beat you with one arm tied behind our backs. Some of us can completely thread a projector in it's entirety - while the damned thing is running.

I might be a little rusty on that...I have not done it within the last 20 years or so.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 07-04-2004, 11:37 PM:
 
Florida sucks This doesn't bother me, I live in the Southern Republic of Miami
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 12:03 AM:
 
Sorry Paul, but DFW is a little more up to date on things. We have them newfangled xenons and platters!

I'd be willing to try it though if the drive isn't too far away. However being able to thread a projector while it is running is about the most useless thing I can imagine for being a projectionist. BTW, I will hold you to that, so start practicing. I'll set you in front of a Kinoton, a Century SA and a JJ converted to run 70mm for your demonstration.

Steve, in regards to the tension, amazingly little! Start up is the crucial issue. Also important is the use of bearing based rollers, the larger the better. The picture I posted on the last page showed us doing the delay on those little 1 inch Strong rollers and although there was no hint of stress damage after many passes, I ended up changing everything out to the 3 inch Kelmar rollers as they substantially reduced the tension. Also the distance between rollers plays into the tension factor a great deal. The closer they are, the greater the tension coming out of the accumulation. Of course if they are too far away, the film hits the ground. 40 feet is bare minimum. 60 feet is the maximum you can go.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-05-2004, 12:06 AM:
 
Cool. But I don't know where they are. Do you know of any?

Bah! Learning to do that adds to the ability to stay on the screen in event a loop is lost or a sprocket derailment happens. In most cases, it is not necessary to shut the machine down if one knows how to do it.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 12:12 AM:
 
I think Fargo has one in somebody's garage. I've never seen pictures though, so it's probably just a bunch of bs.

Other than that, I'll bet there are less than a dozen still running when you don't count Telluride. Who knows how far we would have to travel, and even at that there is no telling what kind of condition the booth upkeep would be like.

Bah! Why would a loop be lost or a sprocket derailment happen? Don't you inspect film before you run it? I can't think of when that has ever happened to me. US Navy training must suck.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-05-2004, 12:15 AM:
 
There's hardly nothing up here in Washington State, either. Ken Layton might be able to verify if there is or is not. He is well-tuned to manual booths.

You said:

quote: Brad Miller

---

Bah! Why would a loop be lost or a sprocket derailment happen? Don't you inspect film before you run it? I can't think of when that has ever happened to me. US Navy training must suck.

---

HAR HAR FRIKKIN' HAR...Did you ever have the task of running an old acetate print you know damned well "is not going to make it?" - and yet a replacement is not available? Do you remember the pictures of the smashed reels and film? Well, I had to run shit like that from time to time.

I have....That's why I like the Brenkerts. They'll pass just about anything including film damage that don't have any sprocket holes on one side. I had to run shit like that in some of the drive in's.

Remember when I mentioned some time ago where I had to use about 100 feet of Scotch tape to make my own sprocket holes in the print Rocky! It took two of us to get that footage through, holding pad rollers shut, keeping the film on the sprockets with our fingers....but it made it without a shutdown.

You need to go back 30 years or so and catch the real experience of running a booth when we didn't have all the cushy shit and computers to do our job for us.

The last time I saw that booth in Fargo was some time ago, and it was in a partially dismantled state. I doubt if it will ever run again.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 07-05-2004, 12:50 AM:
 

quote:

---

And the AW3 CANNOT take up two different films at once like you say. You could add some rollers to it and it could be done, but no way a standard AW3 could do that...Retard.

---

quote:

---

But wait... what's that on the bottom deck? Why it's a print from another auditorium taking up, and that movie is over half way finished!

---

Oh no! The movie is over halfway finished! There's nothing we can do now except burn down the theater.

You should post a log of all the people who called you who thought that was funny, because I'm almost certain you're lying.

=TMP=
 

---

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-05-2004, 12:55 AM:
 

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

You need to go back 30 years or so and catch the real experience of running a booth

---

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

The last time I saw that booth in Fargo was some time ago, and it was in a partially dismantled state. I doubt if it will ever run again.

---

Gosh, I don't what you've been smokin' there Paul! I was there recently and the Fargo theatre was completely restored and in beautiful shape! One hot theatre! Oh, and so is that "other" theatre! Cool!

>>> Phil
 

---

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 07-05-2004, 01:10 AM:
 
You guys would be welcome to come here to do a competition with dual machine manual operation. We have Peerless Magnarcs, but they have been converted to xenon (you'd just have to pretend they were still carbons ) other than that most of the other stuff is still manual operation capable. There would have to be a couple wires moved around for sound c/o as they are currently only located at the rack, or you could just run really fast when you had to do the changeover . It would be fun to have all those techs in our booth (maybe even get a few free fixes for some grounding issues and have the pinch roller on one of the sh-1000's disassembled and cleaned so it doesnt have to be pushed out nightly so it doesnt squeeze the film )
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-05-2004, 01:10 AM:
 
Phil, I was referring to the one Brad spoke of.

Yes, the Old Fargo is really a beautiful theater, and has a very colorful history.

Adam, sounds like it "qualifies".....
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-05-2004, 01:19 AM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

---

If we are going to run all week long with staggered showtimes on a delayed interlock, the film runs in a loop.

---

quote: Brad Miller

---

Remember, you can't let the film tail out.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

Florida sucks.

---

Amen! Can't wait to get out of this hell hole!
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-05-2004, 01:24 AM:
 

quote: Thommy Procyk wrote:

---

You always have to assert your point with a rude comment or name-calling, don't you?

---

quote: Thommy also wrote:

---

All you have to do is add another roller cluster to the AW3 and presto.

---

quote: Thommy additionally said:

---

Oh no! The movie is over halfway finished! There's nothing we can do now except burn down the theater.

---

I tried, but Brad stopped me.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 01:42 AM:
 
I've ran 35mm with sprockets completely missing on one side too...but I did it on a platter!

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

You need to go back 30 years or so and catch the real experience of running a booth when we didn't have all the cushy shit and computers to do our job for us.

---

Why? The "real experience" is right now, not in the past. To me half of the fun is devising ways to automate the job in such a way that it gives a better performance than being manually ran by a human. Yup, it can be done. No need to live in the past.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-05-2004, 02:22 AM:
 

quote: Ken Lackner

---

Amen! Can't wait to get out of this hell hole!

---

Finally! Ken understands about life!

BTW Joe, WTF is a "Thommy"?

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 07-05-2004, 03:06 AM:
 

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

Some of us can completely thread a projector in it's entirety - while the damned thing is running.

---

ack!!!!
DO NOT PUT FINGERS IN RUNNING MACHINERY!!

I've seen what a projector can do to a toothbrush. Polyester dust is bad enough, but what a pain it would be to have to clean pieces of FINGER and BLOOD out of the projector.

Danny
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-05-2004, 03:12 PM:
 
Danny, I have had a few sprocket holes punched in my fingers through the years. But you have to watch where you put your fingers. It took me a little time to figure that out before I could completely get away with it.

And, yes - you are absolutely correct on your comment.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-05-2004, 03:54 PM:
 
Pffft! That's nothing. I can remove a crappy Simplex projector and install a Kinoton projector while the show is running! [av=m]
 

---

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-05-2004, 04:42 PM:
 
Brad says:

quote: Brad Miller

---

Why? The "real experience" is right now, not in the past. To me half of the fun is devising ways to automate the job in such a way that it gives a better performance than being manually ran by a human. Yup, it can be done. No need to live in the past.

---

Who lives in the past? I sure as hell don't. I welcome new technology. I don't have to like it, but I'll still accept it and work with it.

I use me eperiences from the past for the future should it be needed.

Since you design a system, you can make it work from day one. So can I. So can many others.

There are two things about an automated booth:

1. The showmanship is gone. Most theaters today (with automated booths) don't even have curtains - or stage lights, fly lights, etc.

2. You scratch your ass in today's booths, punch a button and if the machine starts, the rest of the time most operators sit on their ass and thousands completely ignore their machines for the entire presentation. Laziness is taking place. If the machine does not start, the operators (for the most part) are too damned stupid to figure out what is wrong, or too lazy to correct it. They cancel the show and call a tech. I point out one theater that lost two days of shows because the damned exciter lamp burned out. A Regal house in Port Orchard, WA. To be more specific, it was House No. 5.

In a manual booth, you didn't have time to sit on your ass and watch TV. If those operators did, (and many did) the presentation will suffer.

People are getting too damned lazy in this age of technology. Lots of people in their teens and 20's don't even know how to count money. Thay have a stupid machine to do that for them.

Nope...I don't live in the past. For those who think I do, you don't know half the story. Your presumption is incorrect.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 07-05-2004, 05:16 PM:
 

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

1. The showmanship is gone.

---

What a load of crap.

While this may be true in most theaters today, there are many theaters where automation enhances the showmanship. I'd like to see you run a complex program of slides, video, synchronized sound and light show, live introductory speech, curtains and multi-format film presentation without (1) another person in the booth or (2) some form of automation.

Keep in mind that showmanship means a smooth-running, quality experience, not a carnival midway.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-05-2004, 05:23 PM:
 
I certanely agree with Paul that much of the old-style showmanship is gone. But I do believe that manual c/o's is the superior way of conducting business.

But just because a booth is automated with 20 screens and all three digital formats does not mean that a projectionist should ever sit on his/her ass! A long time ago in another thread I posted the daily and weekly projectionist routine when I worked for Century.

As I previously stated, being a showman entails several things, for either manual arc/change-overs or automation!

A few examples of my encounters...

I received an emerengcy tech call to come and repair a Christie AW-3-5 that had several problems, among them the platter quitting during performance. Anyhow, a show was in progress when I got there, and the platter quit soon after my arrival. Rather than quitting the show and having a dark screen...I sat there hand winding the platter!

Other problems with that platter that would have resulted in a dark screen were several broken nutserst that had butchered jury-rigged repairs. A trip to Ace Hardware generated an insert that I was able to use to perform a satisfactory repair on one that had a chingered-out hole. Luckily my Alma-Mater was down the road, and one of my past professors was kind enough to loan me a nutsert-tool, and donated several nutserts to the cause! Being a showman=being resourceful and innovative!

I can go on and on about showmanship...but these are just a few examples that computer-based/non mechanical kids of todaycould not have the knowledge of how to handle!

Adam-what you just described in your last post sounds like a POWER-POINT presentation!
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 05:27 PM:
 
Thank you Adam. Fact is Paul, the better automation systems today can do A BETTER JOB than having some guy sit there and manually push all of the buttons. It's like having someone with 10 hands to hit everything at precisely the correct instant, and it's all custom programmable so that every single show is dead on perfect in whatever way you so desire. Just because most theaters today don't put in curtains and such doesn't mean that automation can't run it either. In fact at the theater pictured we DO have curtains and the CA21 automations DO control it at precisely the programmed instant desired. It's almost like people who have had to work in old carbon changeover booths resent the fact that automation today can outperform their manual work. The only thing I will give you is that the overwhelming majority of theaters do not have such automation and that in most cases the presentation and "showmanship" is lost, but you should not make blanket statements that you or any human can do a better job than automation can, because that is simply wrong (unless the person setting it up is a bonehead and doesn't know what he is doing). My CA21s with their custom programming could outperform anyone's manual hands day in and day out...on every screen...for 24 hours a day...day after day...in any size complex.

And for the record, my CA21s will blast alarms 4 minutes before the show is supposed to start. It's my custom "threading alarm" at work, just in case the projectionist is dealing with another screen and is distracted or somehow forgot to thread the next show for whatever reason. Further, if the projector isn't threaded by showtime it will sound another alarm. Heck there's even alarms in these suckers to let the projectionist know if the xenon failed to strike! The automation is designed to ensure that the projectionist doesn't screw up, and it works better than any human in keeping track of things. While automation isn't designed to replace the operator from being there, it certainly is a welcome addition to a professional booth as the ultimate failsafe short of hiring a projectionist to sit by every single screen for every minute of the show, which is not economically smart. It's new technology and it doesn't bite.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-05-2004, 05:31 PM:
 
Brad says that automation can do a better job of handling lights, curtains...etc, etc.

Brad...like I've never seen an automation system that did not properly operate?

Brad...sounds like you just don't know how to do it all manually?
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 05:34 PM:
 
Will, I have ran my share of manual booths. But that did NOT make me a better showman, nor did it enhance my presentation. Your examples keep pointing out resorcefulness of the tech and basic things like spinning a platter to keep the show on screen. So what? Big deal, every theater right down to the local kid at the godzillaplex making minimum wage has done things like that to keep the show on screen.

I think you are confusing "keeping the show on screen" with "showman". Being a good showman in the booth's terms is moreso related to the proper timing of things, not just "keeping the show on screen".

My point still remains that having to do everything manually with only 2 hands is not the superior way of running a show. Even Northpark was fully manual (although platter ran), and I can tell you it was impossible to hit the sound, various lighting systems, douser, etc all at the ideal time. Nobody's arms were 20 feet long!!! Had there been a suitable automation such as a custom programmed CA21 there, the presentation would have been improved due to better timing.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-05-2004, 05:43 PM:
 
As much as really enjoyed the days of changeovers and carbon arcs, I can't agree with Will's assertion that that manual changeovers is the way to go... and yes, Will... I can time a changeover down to the end of the reel as well as many others here. The fact is that the film was designed to go from the last frame of one reel into the first frame of the next. I-D frames notwithstanding, loading a print on a platter gives every audience that very show... every single time. No human is going to do that on a long term basis, and "projectionists artistry" be damned... it was never intended as part of the show.

That being said, I can take a hunk of electronics and teach it to handle lights, curtains, machine starts, lens and masking changes, temperature, ventillation, volume and sound formats EXACTLY as I would, were I standing at the port..... and it will run MY show MY way each and every time the button is pressed. Best of all.. I can teach a bazillion screens to do the same thing... something I can't do without the automation. It's a philosophy I applied to broadcast automation... and I made a lot of it sound pretty darned good.

As paul says, I don't have to like it... and the sentimental part of me doesn't... I still like big transformers, chokes, capacitors and mercury vapor rectifiers... and I really miss the days when you had to pull the finals out of some transmitters with a fork lift, and a 1,000 watt transmitter was 8-feet wide. On the other hand... jobs for that kind of technician are getting a bit hard to come by... and I haven't seen an ad in the papers for a projectionist with manual changeover experience lately, either!

Much of this probably repeats what Brad just said... but I'd say he's got some good points on this one.

OH... hey, Paul... next time you're down this way, I'd like to see you load up a running projector. THAT's something I've never even tried!!!.. and I thought I'd done most of it! Damn, guy... you ARE good!
 

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Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 07-05-2004, 05:56 PM:
 
Based on Brad's praise, I installed CA21's.
Every show is timed to perfection.
The digital ads start exactly on time.
Presisly as they finish the first trailer comes on screen at a comfortable sound.
Change to scope is seamless, with a corresponding volume change.
We even programmed in intermissions with a pre determined length.
The showmanship is in the programming and cue placement, however I always check that the image on screen is the best we can give.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 07-05-2004, 06:02 PM:
 
I thought of a better definition of showmanship:

Letting the show be the show, and not drawing attention to the fact that someone's running it.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-05-2004, 07:53 PM:
 
"Letting the show be the show, and not drawing attention to the fact that someone's running it."
_________________________________________________________________

Of course thats not a job that falls only on the projectionist's shoulders.... It also falls on the director, Director Of Photography, Film Editor, Etc., and so on down the lines shoulders.
It is nice when the projectionist can blend in with the rest of them although that rarely happens any more.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-05-2004, 09:15 PM:
 

quote: Adam Martin

---

...automation enhances the showmanship.

---

quote: Adam Martin...AGAIN!

---

Letting the show be the show, and not drawing attention to the fact that someone's running it.

---

So, Adam.... which is it? Automation or "someone" running the show? You seem to be contradicting yourself bub!

BTW: I vote for CA-21 too!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 09:17 PM:
 
His entire quote was:

quote: Adam Martin's UNEDITED comment

---

While this may be true in most theaters today, there are many theaters where automation enhances the showmanship.

---

Ya gotta read the WHOLE sentence there bub!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-05-2004, 09:18 PM:
 
I did ya jerk!

Did you notice those dots in front of my quoting Adam? DON'T steal my fire! I'm "stirring"! HA!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-05-2004, 09:21 PM:
 
Showmanship is lost? I don't think so. Do you remember that stupid movie with Jim Carrey called "Man on da Moon"? It was about Andy Kaufman. Anyway in the beginning Andy comes on the screen, says some BS, and then says the movie is over (or something like that). He then walks off the screen and black film plays for about 45 to 60 seconds. The point of that joke is to get the audience to think they've just been had and the movie will not progress. At my theater, about 7 seconds after Andy walked off the screen, the house lights faded up to mid level just like the movie was indeed over. And they stayed that way. But then as Andy peeked back onto the screen asking "Are you still here?" and then he starts to walk back into the picture, the lights slowly faded back down. The audience freakin' loved it. I got many compliments about that, even from projectionists of other theaters who decided to see the movie at my theater.
[av=n]
And I did it all with the CA21 automation system. It did that every single show every single day, no matter what auditorium of the complex it was playing in and no matter what I happed to be doing at the time. You simply cannot beat that.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 09:26 PM:
 
I'm surprised you didn't bring the lights up AND put the slide show back on, switch to intermission music, close the curtains, etc. All effortlessly done on the CA21, perfect every time without someone punching buttons.

It's clear to me Will has never worked with truly versatile automations which is why he thinks showmanship is lost in automated booths.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-05-2004, 09:33 PM:
 
Some of you guys dispute the fact that showmanship is lost. The fact is, most people don't know what true showmanship is even if it bit them in the butt!

If I had a choice, I would sooner watch a movie run in a carbon arc manual house than one run by a damn automation. Reason? Simple. The guy running that manual house is always checking what is on the screen and looking for problems to make sure everything looks good.

Automated houses? Nah! Most (not all) projectionists are too busy watching TV, sitting on their butts fiddling around with a computer or shootin' the shit with the cute vendette and completely ignoring the booth.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-05-2004, 09:33 PM:
 
skip the ca21 go to a showmanII or a cinemation MKIV
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-05-2004, 09:36 PM:
 
I agree Brad,
It is easily possible today to put on a great show by way of automation. Will needs to take a close look the many computerized automations out there, not just the CA-21, and try to get a feel of whats possible today which is virtually anything you desire right down to automatically flushing the booth toilet. Will. just go see any of the film or live shows at Disney Land, Walt Disney World, Or Epcot Center. They've been all automated since they opened, Disney Land included!

Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-05-2004, 09:37 PM:
 
Some of the automations are excellent. I blasted the Cinemacitation unit once, and I was corrected in nothing flat. An automation that can do everything is great! Unfortunately, the automations that can do everything are not necessarily found in EVERY theater. Only in a small percentage.

And if they were, the so-called projectionist does a shitty job in cue placement. Seen it, and so has everyone else.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-05-2004, 09:43 PM:
 
Brad - it took too long to close and open the curtains again. I remember timing everything. I also didn't want to overdo it. And why would I put the slides on AND close the curtains? Geez. [av=o]
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 09:47 PM:
 

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

Some of you guys dispute the fact that showmanship is lost. The fact is, most people don't know what true showmanship is even if it bit them in the butt!

---

You've clearly been burned by working with or attending theaters with idiots operating or that have lousy equipment. Just because it's automation doesn't make it bad, and just because someone isn't sitting on a barstool beside the ONE projector they are responsible for doesn't make it bad either. You've been burned and it's going to take more than anything we can do on the forums here to convince/prove to you otherwise.

(BTW have I ever mentioned how many changeover shows I have seen crash because a friggin' takeup belt broke...or a reel was pinching the film causing it to break or rope...or the supply reel falls off of the spindle because it wasn't latched on...or the projectionist missed the first motor cue...or the projectionist was busy taking a dump in the restroom and missed the changeover alltogether...or the projectionist wasn't Navy trained...or the barrage of dirt that accompanies *most* changeover prints because *most* changeover operators are too friggin' stupid to add extra head and tail leader? All of those examples can be attributed to a less-than-ideal operator. It's all about who is running the show. Automation is the same way. Crappy equipment issues aside, put a moron running it and you have a bad show. Put a professional running it and you have a top notch show. PLEASE comprehend this for the good of all. )

Joe - slide/curtain depended on the auditorium. Remember that place only had curtains in half of them.

Gordon - ShowmanII? I've used the Cinemation MKIV and liked it a lot, but it is NOWHERE CLOSE to as flexible as the CA21. It's in a whole different ballpark.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-05-2004, 09:51 PM:
 

quote: Paul G. Thompson

---

The guy running that manual house is always checking what is on the screen and looking for problems to make sure everything looks good.

---

Gosh Paul, I don't know what you're smokin' up there bud, but there are PLENTY of f*ck-ups by so-called "manual projectionists" that I have seen! Some of them just don't give a damn one way or another. AND/OR they are probably "shootin' the shit with the cute vendette and completely ignoring the booth" as well as the automated-theatre guy!

* So I got a little white/black on the screen? What's the big deal? I'm ONLY human!
* What's that you say? The sound didn't change over and we lost it? Ahhh... tell them it was part of the movie to be in silent.
* What? The lights are still on? Ooops! I forgot about those! Thanks!

etc.

Ya really NEED to get with modern times and stop slamming the people that do care to put on a good show whether it's an automated or manual theatre...people are people.

Whether it be some kid or some old fart...there are good ones as well as the bad ones. I really doubt that has changed much from the days of old.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-05-2004, 10:02 PM:
 
The ShowmanII automation started out as the offshoot of a hibrid automation that famous players chief projectionist Lorne Greer designed. It took the peg board cueing of the cinemations and coupled it to a sequential timer so that when a print was moved it was not necessary to change foil positions since the soils were always placed in the same place and the automation on installation was programmed with preset delays to match the timing of its dimmers curtains etc
The timmer was 55 sec and provided cues in 5 sec increments
The automation LED's displayed what was going to happen on the next foil not what had happened

The units became very popular and were for years the only unit installed in Famous Players theatres in canada and there parent company National Amusments had them built by Hadden theatre supply in the US as well
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2004, 10:04 PM:
 
The CA21 does all that and more too! We have got to get you to work with one of those bad boys sometime.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-05-2004, 10:08 PM:
 
Brad and I were Marine trained, and everyone knows the Marines are better than the Navy.[av=t]
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-05-2004, 10:19 PM:
 
Joe, you and Brad are a couple of pussies!

EVERYONE knows that the BEST is ARMY followed by the Coast Guard! JEEZE! Get Real!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-05-2004, 10:53 PM:
 
Air Force has y'all beat!!! Especially in the POLITICAL department

Whats the Queen Beret's motto?....They NEVER leave their buddies behind?

In all the years I saw change-overs done by old-time I.A.T.S.E. guys I never saw a missed cue....

Running c/o's is all about paying the ATTENTION!

I do not see what is soooo hard about running cues manually. It's about staying calm, doing things in a logical sequence, and being fluid about your movements. GEE WHIZ! Running c/o's w/carbons, piped in music, lights and curtains was done successfully for many decades before automation!

While there are some virtues to automation, I NEVER bet my life on a computer being fool-proof. If ya think a computer is "perfect", then your DA FOOL!
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-05-2004, 11:28 PM:
 
Y'all stop by Bremerton, WA sometime... bring your attitudes with you!
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-06-2004, 12:44 AM:
 
Brad and Joe: I am not saying the CA-21 isn't double awesome. I'm sure it is. But you don't need a fancy automation to do what Joe described for Man on the Moon. All you need to do is place a lights up cue when Andy walks off stage, and a lights down cue when he comes back out. This can be done with any of the automations I've worked with, and probablly most I haven't.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-06-2004, 02:21 AM:
 
It can be done with more than just the CA21. But not all automations have a specific lights up and lights down cue. They just go in sequence. If the lights are down and it sees a cue, it brings the lights up. If another cue passes it won't know what to do, unless the cue is on the other side of the film, then it shuts down. Brad's post after mine implies that the CA21 could easily do much more with a single cue (I only had one cue on the film, I didn't put a physical cue on to bring the lights back down). But anyway you missed my point entirely. My argument was not how great the CA21 is (and it is better than anything you've used, unless you've used a CA21). My argument was about how automation is better than anything Will can do.[av=m]
 

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Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 07-06-2004, 08:08 AM:
 
hmmmmmm I started this thread, and look what happened to it!? I thought threads had to stay on topic or they were moved!? I think for this inconvenience to me Brad should send me a FREE bottle of Film-Gaurd!
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-06-2004, 11:27 AM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

---

My argument was not how great the CA21 is (and it is better than anything you've used, unless you've used a CA21). My argument was about how automation is better than anything Will can do.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

Brad and I were Marine trained, and everyone knows the Marines are better than the Navy.

---

Bah! Ummmm..Joe....the Navy-Issue schools also had Marines in them, too. As a matter of fact, the No. 2 man in that school was a Marine, and I beat his ass hands down. If I recall correctly, his final grade was a wimpy 80.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-06-2004, 10:09 PM:
 
My dad and 7 of my uncles were all Marines. They are not projectionists or anything like that, but I bet they can kick the crap out of all you Army, navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Boy Scouts, or Cub Scout guys any day.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-06-2004, 10:14 PM:
 
Well Jeremy, I believe your "challenge" relating to the cub scout thing...

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-06-2004, 11:58 PM:
 
When I was stationed at Norton AFB, CA we would constantly get Grunts from 29 Palms on our base, and the Grunts just liked to antigonize us...but we always got even

Basically we worked 24/7, and so the general rule of curtesy was quiet around the barracks 'cause at least one shift was always sleepin...

But the Grunts loved to come through in the early am and march with extra loud cadence through our barracks area. What really pissed us off was that they had the entire perimeter road to do this on the opposite side of the base.

Now the Wing Commander and Base Commander had "open-door and telephone hot-line" policies, and I can assure you that they were bombarded with calls every time this happened, and they were at constant odds with the Grunt Commanders. Furthermore, there was a majority of AF personnel that desperately wanted to start a brawl with the Grunts! However, we were under strict orders not to...under threat of Article 15 and/or Courts-Martial...and that when a problem arose, they would handle it.

But we had our own means of getting back at the Grunts...whenever they were loading into an aircraft, we had our own ways of making sure they thought they were getting into some unairworthy aircraft...and boy did some of those Grunts faces turn WHITE!!!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-07-2004, 12:15 AM:
 
"When I was stationed at Norton AFB, "

Will, Was that anyplace near Ralph AFB? I believe it was run by a General Kramden wasn't it????

Mark
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-07-2004, 01:33 AM:
 
LOL Ralph...oops...I meant Mark.....
 

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Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 07-08-2004, 07:30 PM:
 
Brad--

I'm pretty impressed with the setup at the 7-plex. It's very
unusual to see a quality installation such as seen here.
Several years ago there was "talk" of doing something like
that here. However, that's all it was...talk! What do you
figure the total cost was on the installation?

fjn
Local 294 Ret.
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 07-09-2004, 11:39 PM:
 
Brad,

While working at the Cinemark in Sandusky, Ohio I once had a partial power outage. Seems a curious squirrel found the transformer on the electric pole out front tasty. It knocked out 1-2 phases of the three phase electricity. Damndest thing I ever saw. Not the squirrel, the power. Some of the projectors had sound but no xenon bulb, some had light but no sound and others had light but no motor or failsafes.....you get the picture. I ran to all ten projectors as fast as possible to shut them down, but had burned film frames on several of the prints and others that stretched due to pulling of the film. Spent the next hour splicing and rethreading for the 9 o'clock shows. Manager had to give out a ton of passes. Interesting evening.

What if that happened to your interlock? It seems that if one projector was to fail and the film tighten it would pull down the roller and the board it is attached to with all the other rollers and other films.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-09-2004, 11:42 PM:
 
Guys, did you not read page 10? This thread is no longer discussing this. Take it there please.
 

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