Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Teen Caught with Camcorder at Spider-Man 2

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 06-30-2004, 09:06 PM:

Link to Story at YAHOO NEWS (expires)

Teen Caught with Camcorder at 'Spider-Man 2'
Wednesday June 30 8:24 PM ET

A 16-year-old boy was caught early Wednesday using a camcorder tape the first showing of "Spider-Man 2" at a Los Angeles theater, the Motion Picture Assn. of America (MPAA) said.

The teen was spotted by a projectionist scanning the audience with night vision goggles. The boy, who was not identified because he is a minor, was arrested on suspicion of violating a California law that went into affect in January, barring the videotaping of movies in commercial theaters.

The MPAA, which represents the interests of the major Hollywood studios, said the projectionists and other employees at the Pacific Winnetka in the suburb of Chatsworth may be eligible for awards of up to $500 under a new program that seeks to enlist theater employees and owners in the fight against digital piracy. The rewards program was instituted earlier this month by the MPAA and National Association of Theater Owners.

Movies captured via camcorder are a source for the copies illegally traded on the Internet and sold worldwide as bootleg DVDs. The MPAA seized 52 million illegally duplicated optical discs worldwide in 2003, when optical-disc piracy reportedly costs the industry $3.5 billion in lost revenue.

"In theaters nationwide there are now thousands of eyes looking for camcording pirates and this incident proves that pirates who use these devices in theaters will be caught," said James Spertus, director of MPAA's U.S. anti-piracy operations. "The swift actions of theater employees will help reduce the number of camcorded films that are made available to organized crime syndicates in Russia, Malaysia and around the world, which in turn convert the recordings into illegally solid optical discs."

After allegedly using the camcorder at a midnight screening, the teen and two friends were escorted out of the theater and turned over to Los Angeles police, according to the MPAA.

"Hundreds of people have put tens of thousands of hours into making a truly great picture and the notion of having it stolen and sent out for free around the world is just plain wrong," said Jeff Blake, vice chairman at Sony Pictures Entertainment, which released "Spider-Man 2."

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter

--------------

Wait, it cost the industry $3.5 Billion last year? Isn't that equal to that year's box office take, thereabouts? So the MPAA is claiming that they would make DOUBLE the money if people just suddenly stop pirating movies? PLEASE! [puke]

No, treating the customers like criminals, bombarding the audience with advertizing, releasing crap movies and demanding a 90/10 take for the first two weeks of a four week minimum... THAT is just plain WRONG!!

I wonder if the show was deeply disrupted while they snatched this kid's low-definition mess of a tape.

=TMP=

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-30-2004, 09:29 PM:

The industry did around 9 or 10 billion last year, in the United States. I don't know the worldwide figures.

This is the interesting thing for us spell-checkers:

quote:
arrested on suspicion of violating a California law that went into affect in January,

"AFFECT?" Who is writing these articles? Not journalists, apparently.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 06-30-2004, 09:34 PM:

haha, so the projectionist will share this $500 reward with the staff...which means the mgmt. will try and take most of it and give him a $25 bonus...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-30-2004, 09:56 PM:

Even if all $500 went to the projectionist and $50 of that was given back to the minor, that's still a $450 take for the projectionist. [Wink]

What I want to know is why these bootleggers are so stupid as to bootleg at an indoor theater? Go to the drive-in!!! You have the privacy and security of your car, FM stereo direct audio patch-in to your camcorder, and with a 24P camera, you'll walk away with a miraculously beautiful copy. (Valenti is bound to enjoy many sleepness nights ahead for pointing out that one! hahaha)

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 06-30-2004, 09:57 PM:

Didn't the last story like this come out of the Pacific Winnetka? Sounds like they have a problems there.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-30-2004, 10:03 PM:

Gosh (M)Adam.... that drive-in was closed years ago...

Also, it seems to me that there are many more $ to be made by taking the bribe $ from the bootleggers rather than the goodie-two-shoes spies for the "reward"...

It all just points out the stupidity of Jacko his butt buddies.

>>> Phil

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-30-2004, 10:17 PM:

Are there any drive-ins left in the San Fernando Valley? I think the kid would probably have to venture down to the Harbor District or the San Gabriel Valley to find the closest drive-in nowadays.

The Pacific Winnetka is in a fairly upscale walled-fortress kind of neighborhood (think Irvine without the Orange County vibe). Lots of rich peoples' brats around, plus CSUN is close by. Ah, the primary camcorder-pirate demographic... [Big Grin]

BTW the Pacific Winnetka was where I got to see my first JVC D-ILA screening, for Star Wars Ep. 1 in 1999.

[ 07-02-2004, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 07-01-2004, 12:10 AM:

quote: Yahoo Story
the projectionists and other employees at the Pacific Winnetka in the suburb of Chatsworth

WTF are you smoking, Phil? The Winnetka 21 opened in 1997.

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 07-01-2004, 12:18 AM:

quote:
WTF are you smoking,

Crack Adam.... He is smoking some of that ASS CRACK again.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2004, 12:48 AM:

These people, young or old better not get caught in our theaters by me with a camcorder. End of that story.

I read the news clip. There is one thing I disagree with...it was said that 98% of the bootlegged movies are committed by movie patrons. That is a bunch of crap! Of all the years I have been running movies since the video camera technology developed, there was only one instance where a video recording device was brought into one of our theaters. It was an employee that did that to make movies of the theater itself. It was done without permission, and I caught him. The tape was confiscated and destroyed. This was in the mid-1980's.

Shortly thereafter, that employee was terminated.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-01-2004, 12:54 AM:

Where does it say 98%? I've never heard that number from anywhere and it certainly wasn't in that news article.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2004, 01:25 AM:

From the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, article by Alex Veiga, Associated Press Business Writer.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Spider-Man-2-Arrest.html

Excerpt:

Camcorders account for 92 percent of all illegal copies of films that are sold online and on street corners worldwide, according to the MPAA.

OK - it was 92%, not 98%. My error on my typo.

Generally, since I have to prove just about anything I say anymore, I usually research before I post.

Edited to add the New York Times Link citing the same percentage.

[ 07-01-2004, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-01-2004, 03:32 AM:

Ok, so now that we have an official MPAA quote on percentages, does ANYONE buy into this load of crap that 92% of all bootleg videos are off of theater prints? ANYONE??? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Fry?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-01-2004, 09:46 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
"AFFECT?" Who is writing these articles? Not journalists, apparently.

...and the sub-editor putting the page together was clearly asleep on the job, too. This is the most common sort of typo - one which forms a correctly spelt word but in an incorrect context, so computer spell-checkers won't pick it up.

That's not quite as good as the one in an article I was reading the other week, though. It stated that RCA engineers carried out some early experiments in stereo sound recording with the 'Moron Tabernacle Choir'!

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 07-01-2004, 09:58 AM:

Paul M.

The Pacific Winnetka 6 Drive-In was the last operating Drive-In in San Fernando Valley.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-01-2004, 10:17 AM:

...demolished in 1996 to make way for the hardtop opened in 1997 that Adam referred to.

quote: Brad Miller
...these bootleggers are so stupid as to bootleg at an indoor theater? Go to the drive-in!!! You have the privacy and security of your car...

True, but then who's going to arrest the cop who arrests the bootlegger cuz the cop got the film on his dashboard camera? [Razz]

>>> Phil

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 07-01-2004, 11:58 AM:

There's trash talk about this incident (some directed at projectionists) on SlashDot.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2004, 04:58 PM:

Brad, let's just hope that nobody else accepts that load of crap!

Edited for clarity

[ 07-01-2004, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-02-2004, 05:29 AM:

Just great; so now the projectionists are going to spend what little time they already spend checking presentation, to spying at the audience with night vision goggles instead.

And I want to know what manager went out to spend the pretty penny those things cost and billed it to what, the MPAA? The THEATRE? If he billed the theatre, he AND the theatre owner should have their heads examined.

Put up a sign "No Video or Audio recorders of any kind allowed in this theatre" and be done with it. But then again, if they really wanted to be fair, by the MPAAs own calculations as to how many billions (BILLIONS!) the studios loose to this very thing -- videocamming in movie theatres -- thwarting that kid's camcorder alone should have saved the studio, what? a couple of hundred thousand at least, maybe even closer to a million? Seems like a measely $500 is ripping off the theatre and that night-vision-spying-not-attending-to-his-booth-duties projectionist. Seems to me he and the theatre deserve a hellofalot more than just $500. Catching that pirate saved the studio megabucks....how bout sharing it!

My face laughs at them.

Posted by Peter Schoell (Member # 919) on 07-05-2004, 11:06 AM:

I thought we were told last year that most of the bootlegging was coming from the labs. I've heard tales of people who have DVDs of movies not released yet. Not blockbuster types, but movies that got pushed back in the schedule.
One way the film companies protect their revenue is to move up the release date for video/DVDs. We lose patrons because they know they can see the movie on DVD in a few months. In the meantime theatre owners are part of a new type of advertising. Product promotion that we pay the film companies 70, 80, 90 percent for, so they can sell their product in the later markets. Movie companies didn't get so big because they give a rats ass.

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 07-05-2004, 12:43 PM:

quote: Paul G. Thompson
Camcorders account for 92 percent of all illegal copies of films that are sold online and on street corners worldwide, according to the MPAA.

There are lies, there are damn lies and there's statistics.
In many countries, they sell the lowest quality VCDs and DVDs that no one in the U.S. or Europe would look at even for a single minute. I have seen VCDs from China and India which obviously were taped in theatres, even shot hand held and with people walking through the frame all the time. There is a market for that stuff, but the MPAA seems to forget that not everybody who picks up such a crap disc could afford to pay $7 or € 8 for a movie ticket or 16,99 for a Special Edition DVD.

And to make it more threatening, they ignore the fact that some countries, take India, have a large film production output, so many of these mythical 92% will not affect the studios and distributors represented by the MPAA.

Piracy is a bad thing and I definitely support the practice of checking the auditorium for cameras, but these 92% thing is just crap, we all know that the screener & post production leakage has been the prime problem in the last years.

We have come to the point where some people cannot grasp the idea of creative ownership any more. Last weekend I supervised a Betacam video taping of a jazz concert, and after an hour a guy comes to my desk where I am mixing the camera signals and starts talking in a strange way. First I thought he had a technical question, but then I realized that his constant repetition of "You are recording the concert, so the music is on the video tape, right?" meant that he wanted a copy. I told him No Way, talk to the band's manager if you want their music, or buy a CD. He repeated his but-it's-already-on-the-video stuff again, and so I politely asked him to leave.

Now this guy was no bootlegger, but like many people he had come to assume that as soon as a piece of work has been recorded (from movies to software), he had a right to get a copy for free. To me, this is pure insanity, but it has become a fact of life...
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-04-2006, 02:43 PM:

It has been 760 days since the last post.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 08-04-2006, 02:43 PM:

Movie Filmed in Cinema

quote:

Movie filmed in cinema

SATURDAY , 05 AUGUST 2006

A woman caught in a Christchurch cinema trying to film a movie on her camcorder is the second such case in Canterbury in three months.

In the latest example a woman was spotted by staff at Northlands Hoyts apparently recording a movie trailer – ironically an anti-piracy message – ahead of the popular children's movie Cars.

New Zealand Federation Against Copyright Theft (NZFACT) executive director Tony Eaton said cinema staff contacted management and the woman, who was sitting with her family near the back of the cinema, was approached and her video recorder seized.

Eaton believed the woman intended recording the film for piracy purposes and had reported the case to police. He planned to courier his file on the matter to Christchurch police on Monday.

Under the Copyright Act the woman could face up to five years in prison, or a fine of between $10,000 and $150,000, if convicted.

Three months ago a similar attempt to pirate a movie was spotted in a mid-Canterbury cinema. Eaton said the NZFACT file on this case was in the police's "to do" pile.

Detective Senior Sergeant Grant Wormald said the first he had heard about the case was on the radio and he hoped to receive details about it early next week.

Northlands operations manager James McIntosh said he was contacted on Wednesday afternoon about the apparent videoing of Cars but knew no further details.

Eaton, a former police officer, said movie piracy was a "huge" business estimated to cost the industry worldwide $6.1 billion a year.

In New Zealand the big players were motorcycle gangs and Asian organised crime.

"We're finding most of this stuff is organised crime and sold through their networks alongside cannabis and stolen goods."

Eaton said his organisation knew of more than 40 commercial operations earning more than $50,000 each selling video bootlegs.

Usually bootlegs were made from pirate copies picked up in Asia or by downloading the movies from the internet. It was less common to record a movie using a video camera and no-one had yet been charged for doing this.

However, cinemas became alert to the risk after bootlegged DVDs of an early version of Sione's Wedding were discovered.

NZFACT was set up in May 2005 and now had 10 private investigators working in the country. It was one of 85 anti-piracy organisations worldwide funded by the Motion Picture Association of America.

Last month it sued 14 New Zealanders for selling more than 10,000 pirated DVDs on internet auction sites, including Trade Me. Eaton said the sellers had made tens of thousands of dollars and substantial settlements were agreed.

Criminal prosecutions have included Auckland man Benjamin Samu, who in February was fined $1000 and ordered to do 300 hours' community work for selling pirated DVDs at markets. Another Aucklander John Houston, 42, was due to be sentenced this month after admitting 21 charges of copyright theft.

Having said that, Northlands Hoyts suck as film handlers, they're the ones I refer to as my local suckplex...

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-04-2006, 03:21 PM:

2004

quote: Thomas Procyk
The MPAA seized 52 million illegally duplicated optical discs worldwide in 2003, when optical-disc piracy reportedly costs the industry $3.5 billion in lost revenue.

2006

quote:
movie piracy was a "huge" business estimated to cost the industry worldwide $6.1 billion a year.

Wow, that's some increase....I guess the crap code or that asinine MPAA trailer campaign aren't working as well as the MPAA thought. Maybe someone over there should face the fact that screen copy DVDs are NOT the source or the reason all this money is being lost, but insider copies are. But how long can we keep saying this. Obviously there is a political imperative for the MPAA and the industry to stick to this party line.

My theory has always been that it justifies the existance of the MPAA....gives them a reason to collect money from all the studios to continue their operation. Jack Valenti in his day was no fool. First he convinced the studios that they needed saving from impending govermental censorship (which was real) so he invented the Rating System. When that was over and done with, the MPAA needed to find some other hot cause that would push the studio exec's buttons and for which it could be the studios' Knight-in-Shining-Armor to save them. Jack hit on PIRACY, or as he coined it, "a cancer in the belly of the industry," a line that ole Jack would automatically repeat like Pavlov's dog and with that odd little lisp he had, anytime a camera was pointed anywhere near him.

It's all smoke and mirrors and it's all to amass influence and power. It's much easier to get congress to extend the copyright laws with these exaggerated claims, like from the original 24 and the need to re-apply for the next 24 for a total of 48 years which the law intended, to what they've jacked it up to now --"the life of the author plus 75 years -- anyone venture a guess what the "life" of 20th Century Fox is? In effect, removing Public Domain from the body politic's vocabulary. The industry thru the MPAA has effectively gotten the FBI to be its private police force, and now I see it's got other police agencies in other countries under its employ as well:

quote:
NZFACT was set up in May 2005 and now had 10 private investigators working in the country. It was one of 85 anti-piracy organisations worldwide funded by the Motion Picture Association of America.

There is a reason why someone who shoots a kid in the head in a cold blooded murder gets 8 years in jail and someone who copies a movie with a camcorder gets 5 years. This skewed value system is due to this kind of political manipulation and the MPAA effectively making it sound like Hollywood will cease to exist unless they get what they want in the way of copyright law ammendments and being able to utilize the entire FBI as their own law enforcement agency.

[ 08-05-2006, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 08-04-2006, 09:52 PM:

I have seen very few pirate movies in my life, but have seen two now in the last few months, Cars, and Poseiden. I watched them on a lappie, so my expectations weren't high, but given the limitations of the medium it looked Ok. I assumed (knowing nothing of the history) that these were lifts off the DVD.

Well, I was pretty surprised to see someone walking in front of the screen on both of them, and on one of them, totally gobsmacked to have the soundtrack drop out as some announcement came through loud and clear!!!!! Clearly the audio pickup was from some odd route, I've never seen a presentation where some trivial announcement is made over a movie being shown in an auditorium.

I have to confess, I just fell about laughing. If this is the standard of pirate movies, then even the sub-par houses have little to worry about. Or maybe people really really dont care.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-05-2006, 02:33 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
Wow, that's some increase....

while i agree with the spirit of the post, 1 USD = 1.6 NZD,
so us$3.5b = nz$5.6b and it's not that great an increase.

Posted by Peter Berrett (Member # 672) on 08-05-2006, 06:49 AM:

quote: Paul G. Thompson
These people, young or old better not get caught in our theaters by me with a camcorder. End of that story.

I read the news clip. There is one thing I disagree with...it was said that 98% of the bootlegged movies are committed by movie patrons. That is a bunch of crap! Of all the years I have been running movies since the video camera technology developed, there was only one instance where a video recording device was brought into one of our theaters. It was an employee that did that to make movies of the theater itself. It was done without permission, and I caught him. The tape was confiscated and destroyed. This was in the mid-1980's.

Shortly thereafter, that employee was terminated.

I forgot you Americans still allow Capital Punishment. Still it does seem to me to be a bit severe for what is only a potential minor copyright infringement. [Razz]

cheers Peter