• Reels would be threaded with the number "8" in the aperture ("6" for "tv" clock leader).
• Near the end of a reel, a bell driven by centrifical force on the back side of the feed reel spindle would ring to alert the projectionist.
• The projectionist would then light the carbon arc lamp and wait for the first set of cue marks to appear in the top right corner of the picture.
• Upon seeing the first cue marks, the projectionist would start the next projector, open the lamp house dowser, and watch for the second set of cue marks.
• Upon seeing the second set of cue marks, the projectionist would (in most theatres) press the floor petal switch which would open the zipper on one projector and close it on the other. At the same time, he would hit a button on the wall that would switch the sound between machines.
• Then the projectionist would walk over to the other machine and turn off the lamp, close the dowser, and shutoff the projector motor.

quote:

---

Lately I've been getting really interested in the golden days of cinema, back when the plots were fresh, the picture was warm and the presentation was perfect.

---

Andrew, remind me to slap you whenever we meet. Running a changeover is nothing more than knowing what frame of the leader to cue up to and pressing a few buttons upon seeing marks on the film. Basically, a human robot. It's nothing that a machine cannot do just as good and 99% of the time better, with more accuracy. The die hard changeover guys will want to disagree, saying some babble like how they are part of the "art" of the show, but all they are is a human robot and it gives them something to do to help pass the time. It does not add to the final presentation on screen. It's just another way to run the show, much like running a film off of a tower or a platter.

The only "art" that a projectionist can add to a show is in the little things, such as the timing of lighting, curtains, fader control, etc. However that falls under the term "presentation", and can also be done just as well and with more accuracy and consistency by a machine. With the equipment options available to us today, the "presentation" becomes moreso an issue of the quality of the picture and sound, whether that's talking about running film cleaners, keeping the lamphouse tweeked, etc. Things like lighting and curtains would be programmed into the automation so they run perfectly every time without fail.

With today's projection equipment options, choices in sound equipment, better screen surfaces, better lenses, advances in acoustical knowledge, vastly superior film stocks, film cleaners, etc. anyone who thinks that the presentation was better back in the old days is a nut. The best options available many years ago vs. the best options available today proves that it is a technical impossibility.
 

---

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-12-2004, 01:45 PM:
 
I first worked in a drive-in that had equipment from "before the earth cooled." There was no floor pedal for the changeover dowser, it was a pushbutton on the wall. The sound switch was a regular wall switch like you would find in a house. Flip it to the left or the right.

When I moved on to the indoor theatre (the Roxy, which I now own), it had much better equipment, but no floor pedal either; just one pushbutton for the dowser and the sound.
 

---

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 07-12-2004, 02:16 PM:
 
Don't forget to thread the 2nd projector in frame.
 

---

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-12-2004, 02:37 PM:
 
Andrew, changeovers are simple to do, you just need a bit of practice to get the timing right. I'm not sure what you mean by 'how to perfectly thread up the other projector'. Do you mean which frame you need to have in the gate? If so, it depends on two things, how fast you react and press the start button, and how fast the incomming projector runs up to speed. It will be different for each projectionist, and for different projectors. Sometimes one projector of a pair will even be different to the other, and will require the film to be laced up on a different frame. At the place where I've been projecting recently I normally have to lace up two frames before the '8', you just have to practice to get the timing right.

The leader of a film is 12 feet, or 8 seconds, or 192 frames long; if you start at the 'picture start' frame and count the frames, the first frame of picture will come 192 frames later. The end of a reel of film, from the first frame of the motor cue, to the last frame of picture, is also 192 frames, so if you could react instantly, and the projector could reach full speed instantly, you could lace up on the 'picture start' frame, but since both of these things take time, if you did this, by the time the last frame of the outgoing reel was projected, the incomming reel would still be somewhere in the leader, rather than at the first frame of picture. You therefore need to wind down the incomming reel, so that there will be a shorter length of leader to run through. If you lace up too early in the leader, there will be black frames projected, if you lace up too far down there will be an overlap in time between the end of one reel and the beginning of the next, and some frames will not be seen. In practice, it is not possible to make a perfect changeover, so you lace up to give just a few frames overlap between the reels at the point of changeover. Providing you press the changeover button during these few frames no black frames will be projected, and just a few frames will be missed.

You need to press the start button as soon as you see the motor cue, but don't try to develop a lightening-fast reaction, what matters is to be consistant in your timing. It doesn't matter if your reaction is a bit slow, as long as it's always the same, you will just need to wind the film down an extra frame of two when you lace up.

From the first frame of the changeover cue to the end of the reel is one second, you just get a feel for how long you have to wait from seeing the cue to pressing the button. If you're early you will project the last few frames of leader, which should be black, and if you're late you will project a few frames of black, or possibly one of those 'LFOA' markings, on the end of the outgoing reel.

What you need to do is to get a bit of film, an old trailer will do, with some smooth movement in it, maybe a car driving across the frame at a constant speed. Cut the film in two, add leaders and cue marks in the correct places, and practice changing over between the two parts.

If you have a print where the leaders have frames missing, or the cues are in the wrong place, then you have to correct this. If there are frames missing from the leader after your lace-up frame, then you either have to replace the leader, or lace up on an earlier frame; if there were four frames missing, then I would lace up six frames before the '8' rather than two frames. If there are frames missing from the beginning of the picture, then this will not affect the changeover timing, but obviously the missing frames cannot be shown, and there will be a jump in the film.

At the end of the reel, frames missing after the motor cue will mean that the reel runs out earlier than it should, so you need to wind down the incomming reel by the same number of extra frames when lacing up. If the missing frames are after the changeover cue, you will also have to press the changeover button that much earlier to compensate. If you can possibly avoid it, do not make any extra cues, not only does it look a mess on screen, but it also gets confusing to see several sets go through. I had a terrible print of a children's film on Saturday, some of the reels had over forty frames missing, so the changeover cues were completely missing, and I had to make new ones, but I was still able to use the existing motor cues, though I had to wind the incoming reels a long way down!

It's taken far longer to describe that than to do it. When you start a show you have a lot of things to take care of, house lights, non-sync music, curtains, douser, film sound, you have to think about all of them, within a few seconds, and get the timing right. Making a changeover is far easier than starting a show. To make a changeover you should give the incomming machine a final check a couple of minutes before, so if something is not right, there's still time to correct it, but then when the time comes you only have to concentrate on one thing, watch for the cue. When you see it press the button, watch again, when you see the second cue, wait, and then press the button. Once you've done it check the picture on screen, stop the other machine, and that's it. There's far more to learn in operating a platter correctly than there is in making changeovers.

Remember, Academy leaders are numbered in feet, SMPTE leaders, and some other odd ones, are numbered in seconds, so the numbers will be different for each type.
 

---

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-12-2004, 03:10 PM:
 
Just to reinforce Stephen's point: the lacing point for the incoming projector depends on the time it takes to ramp up to full speed. If you're working in a given house for the first time and haven't been told by another projectionist, it really is a case of trial and error. I'd normally start with 8 and then adjust as necessary after having seen the first changeover go through.

Another issue is checking the print before it runs. Absolutely every print you're likely to get now - unless it is either brand new or is supplied by an archive which does not allow the heads and tails to be cut off - will have been run on a platter or tower at some point during its life. Whereas with platter or tower operation you need to remove every last bit of splicing tape while making up the programme, for changeover operation you're doing precisely the opposite: making sure that each head and tail is joined to the picture, on both sides and in rack. While you're going through this process label the head and tail spacing clearly with the title, reel number and orientation, e.g. 'LORD OF THE RINGS, REEL 3 OF 9, HEAD'. Another trick I was taught was to underline 6s and 9s, to avoid any last possibility of showing reels in the wrong order.

Finally, check that the cue marks are actually there. For prints of Hollywood features these will almost certainly have been printed through from the interneg. But some foreign labs don't punch the interneg or print cue dots. This is especially true of French labs. If you get a print of an arthouse film with LTC or Éclair on the cans, check it out carefully - the cue dots probably won't be there. If they're not and you don't have a cue dot inscriber, probably the least destructive way to add your own visible cues is by making a diagonal line with a white chinagraph pencil across the top right (opposite side from soundtrack), on the base side of the film, across four consecutive frames, counting 48 frames back from the end of the picture for the over cue, and then a further 144 frames back for the motor cue. The chinagraph can be rubbed off. Another way is to put a piece of joining tape across the film at these points and listen for the 'click' as it goes through the gate as your cue, which is totally reversible and does not make any mark on the film. But be absolutely sure you'll be able to hear it (with both projector motors running, standing next to the incoming machine) before trying this in a live show!
 

---

Posted by Jim Bedford (Member # 4) on 07-12-2004, 03:43 PM:
 
Ah yes. "Up to 20 minutes of boredom interspersed by a few seconds of pure terror" was how changeovers were once described to me. Boredom doesn't seem to be a problem as I am usually able to find plenty to do.

I love 'em. I get to touch film between reels. Our Nugget Theatre in Telluride still does changeovers as do all eight theatres at the Telluride Film Festival.

As noted above, it's not rocket science, it's just about good training and paying attention. But it is unlikely the wave of the future.....
 

---

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 07-12-2004, 03:51 PM:
 
Brad Miller wrote:

"With today's projection equipment options, choices in sound equipment, better screen surfaces, better lenses, advances in acoustical knowledge, vastly superior film stocks, film cleaners, etc. anyone who thinks that the presentation was better back in the old days is a nut. The best options available many years ago vs. the best options available today proves that it is a technical impossibility."

Technically impossible, yes, but humanly possible, no.

I have witnessed many a presentation over the years. I can recall only one show interruption in a changeover house. That was the night the whole town lost the electricity, and the screen went dark at the old Carlton Theatre in Red Bank, NJ (now the Count Basie Theatre). The show was not lost, however, as the projectionist fired up the generator and got the show back on the screen long before the electricity was restored and it was time for the hosuelights to be brought up.

I can never recall being given passes for a lost show. That is not to say that there were not some places that did indeed lose a show, but from my personal standpoint, I never experienced that.

Nor can I remember being treated to scratched prints in my youth, and please do not say that I didn't know the difference, having owned my first projector at the age of five. An occasional blown changeover? Yes, but very rare. An "arithmetic lesson" at start-up? Yes, saw it once after I became a projectionist and was visiting an out of state theatre.

In the new era of automation and popcorn jockies running many venues, that is simply not the case. I have been in new theaters with the best equipment and been treated to a variety of flaws, to the point where passes were offered.

I applaud the members if this site for their interest and dedication to the industry. Unfortunately, there are too few of us, and we are in the minority. So many of you fight against corporate suits who don't give a damn about presentation.

Technically speaking, you are correct Brad. The "good old days" were not good at all, and can't hold a candle to the improvements in the industry.

Humanly speaking, I disagree. I can relate to more bad experiences of presentation in the 80's and the 90's than I could to the 50's and 60's. That is not due to the technology. That's the idiots in the booth and the corporate suits who allow it.

So call me a nut, Brad, because as far as I'm concerned the presentation WAS better. Not that the screen was brighter, the picture sharper, or the sound better, but because there used to be a hell of a lot more people in the industry who did give a rats ass about presentation.

Now, once we get 100% of the folks who work in the booth tuned in to this forum, that will no longer be the case.
 

---

Posted by Jim Bedford (Member # 4) on 07-12-2004, 04:20 PM:
 
Another plus is if you have a projector breakdown in a two machine booth, you can show the film a reel at a time. With experience you can get down to under 90 seconds between reels, hardly enough time for audience members to get more popcorn or take a pee.
 

---

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 07-12-2004, 04:57 PM:
 
True enough, Jim. But if you are running carbons, that may take a bit longer after three reels.
 

---

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 07-12-2004, 05:24 PM:
 

quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr

---

So call me a nut, Brad, because as far as I'm concerned the presentation WAS better. Not that the screen was brighter, the picture sharper, or the sound better, but because there used to be a hell of a lot more people in the industry who did give a rats ass about presentation.

---

quote: Wolff King Morrow was the last to post

---

So call me a nut, Brad, because as far as I'm concerned the presentation WAS better. Not that the screen was brighter, the picture sharper, or the sound better, but because there used to be a hell of a lot more people in the industry who did give a rats ass about presentation.

---

Watch out Mr. Hendrickson, or Brad will slap you too!

Anyways, thanks for the information, I just believed the presentation was better because there was always someone babysitting the equipment.
 

---

Posted by Matt Manalis (Member # 2367) on 07-12-2004, 07:30 PM:
 
i am head of booth at yamba also assisant manager and i learnt everything i know about being a projectionist from my grandfather who did his first changeover at the age of 9. my on screen presentaion is perfect, i run changeover and usually 2 movies on platter over the holiday periods to take some load off. i have found that i can perform a perfect presentaion on both systems, i started doing changeovers at 13 and it was on 2 C&W projectors and changeovers were done with a string for the sound connected to a switch and the shutter in front of the port window.i know run 2 cinemeccanica vic 5's only just a year old with push button changeover. i have worked with carbons and xenon's and found good points and bad points in both but i will agree that in now days the on screen presentaion is better when being shown by a PROJECTIONIST and not an operator. i have alwayz been told that if something stuffs up in booth and they can't notice the differece inside then fix it but don't stop the machine unless damaging the print of course, and my next addition to a better on screen presentaion will be my new film-guard units (thankyou Brad) i thread up on 8 and run through to about 7 and 3/4 but i check every film when i recieve a print to make sure this is right or if some little city slicker as cut the head or something its not hard to do just take brain power.
 

---

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 07-12-2004, 07:40 PM:
 
When did Canada's big chains majorly make the big change from carbon to xenon, changeover to platter and which switch came first?

Back in the days of the Garrick 4, and NorthStar 2, when they were both full changover houses, would they have one person run two auditoriums?
 

---

Posted by Matt Manalis (Member # 2367) on 07-12-2004, 08:34 PM:
 
when changeovers were everywhere and especially here in OZ they used to have 2 projectionist per a screen and they would call the sues so you would never miss a changeover i don't know much about American history so i can't help U on that
 

---

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 07-13-2004, 01:23 AM:
 
I agree that overall presentation quality has declined since changeover operators. The equipment overall has improved, but it's been more than offset by the fact that much of it was designed to reduce skilled (or even engaged) operators. You can analze the separate aspects, but you can't ignore how they interact.
 

---

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-13-2004, 01:30 AM:
 
Xenons came before platters:; you need xenons to run a platter, you don't need a platters to run xenon. I don't know about Canada, but it probably wasn't much different to over here.

First change was from 1000 to 2000 foot reels. I don't know when this happened, but it was long ago.

Next change was from 2000 to 4000 or 6000 foot reels, this couldn't happen untiil nitrate had gone, and started in the early '50s. This was very useful for 3-D, as otherwise you would need to do changeovers with four projectors. There were a few places that did it that way!

Soon after this xenons started to appear, but were not common until much later.

By sometime in the '60s, I'm not sure exactly when, 15,000 foot spools were available, which could run a whole film with one machine. A few projectors could take these directly, Philips and Fedi both made them, or the spools could be run on a tower behind the projector. To do thiis you needed xenon.

Platters were introduced in the early '70s.

Of course, it didn't happen overnight, it probably took about twenty years for xenons to become more common than carbon, and there are still plenty of places running changeovers today, and new ones are still being built. Among art-house type venues here in the u.k. platters aren't that common, most have either 6000 foot changeovers, or towers.
 

---

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-13-2004, 01:41 AM:
 
Is equipment today better than that of yester-year? I think just about most of the older people here agree that the E-7 had about the steadiest image of any projector ever made. And while DTS is capable of excellent sound, is it not an update of old-technology? Is there no resembelence between DTS and Sound-On-Disc? But yes, there is some excellent equipment out today! I don't think enough people are giving credit to LaVezzi VKF sprockets and polyester-based film...which have both drastically reduced sprocket-hooking and sprocket hole damage!

As for change-overs, yes Brad...it is mechanics. Some people have already mentioned here about film-inspections. Keep in mind that most change-overs occur at change-of-scenes or in fade-ins/outs. If the Projectionist has inspected the print and has familiarized him/herself with where C/Os occur, then excellent C/Os can be made on a routine basis...as long as the Projectionist also remains alert and quick-on-the-draw.

It seems tome that no-one mentined adjusting the motor shunt resistors on RCA and Simplex soundheads to ensure projectors come up to speed in the required time?
 

---

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 07-13-2004, 01:55 AM:
 
Andrew, this is just a guess but I figured platters and xenons started coming in the late 70s/early 80's.
 

---

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 07-13-2004, 03:30 AM:
 

quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr was the last to post

---

With today's projection equipment options, choices in sound equipment, better screen surfaces, better lenses, advances in acoustical knowledge, vastly superior film stocks, film cleaners, etc. anyone who thinks that the presentation was better back in the old days is a nut.

---

quote: Stephen Furley

---

From the first frame of the changeover cue to the end of the reel is one second

---

quote:

---

counting 48 frames back from the end of the picture for the [change]over cue

---

is it that different in the uk??

carl
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-2004, 04:24 AM:
 
Here is an awesome tip/trick:[av=n]
During your changeover, if you press Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, and then Start, you'll start with 10 extra guys.

Seriously though, just remember that just because you think changeovers are cool, do not, I repeat DO NOT think that you must like old crappy equipment that is usually synonymous with changeovers as well. Believe it or not, good equipment CAN do changeovers and they CAN do them extremely well. You don't need a crappy Simplex to do it, nor a reel rewinder that only has two speeds (on or off) which destroys the film. Hell, you could get two prints of each movie and also two platters, then you'd have a kick ass changeover booth. You'd have frame accurate manual changeovers each and every time if you had both prints running on a platter (one per projector, started at the exact same instant). It would be the first ever changeover booth run on a platter. Don't think you have enough light on that screen? Open the douser on BOTH projectors! And yes, the cost and effort would be worth it.
 

---

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-13-2004, 05:34 AM:
 
When a feature length film is shown in and IMAX SR theatre, the film is usually on PLATTERS (QTRU), and there is a CHANGEOVER between the TWO projectors.
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2004, 05:42 AM:
 
Even worse than that John, is that it's an AUTOMATED changeover! EEK!

It's humorous how somehow putting a changeover in a show magically makes it better by so many arguments whether it be the "art" of the operator or the "showmanship" added because some guy is having to change reels. While it's possible to have seamless changeovers, if the two xenons are not perfectly matched, it shows. The aperture or lens could be knocked slightly, which shows. There is almost always a buildup of dirt at the ends of reels, which shows. It's been said before and most people agree, if a film is only going to be ran a few times, there is less wear running reel to reel, but if the show will be ran many times, there is less wear running platters. Of course I suppose I have to insert the "assuming qualified operators" comment here too. When compared in this light, the choice should be made for the best interest of the film depending on the kind of installation it is (commercial cinema vs. screening room).

Will, if I had any E7s I would ship them all to you. What an oily joke of a machine! You want to see excellence in projection? Get your hands on a Kinoton. They'll beat the pants off of anything you can put up against it... and oh my, it's a current product too!!!
 

---

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 07-13-2004, 07:44 AM:
 
I too come from a changeover background but cannot see how adding human intervention and the associated uncertancies every 20 minutes can improve presentation.

WHere to lace up the incoming machine depends on the run up speed of the machine. We use this method;
- Lace up a reel on, say, projector 2.
- Lace up a reel on P1 BACKWARDS, ie tail out (run "b" wind or twist the film to get the soundtrack on the right side)
- Run the reel on P1 down until the third or fourth frame of action is in the gate (eg just before the head leader). Stop P1
- Now run P2, and when you see the motor cue start P1 as normal. CHangeover when you see the "over" cue. Look on screen - chances are you'll be looking at black spacing between the 6 and the 7 mark on the leader. Note this point - this is where you should lace up to do a perfect changeover.

This method allows for projector run up speeds, changeover shutter delays and even slow reactions of old duffers !
 

---

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-13-2004, 10:47 AM:
 
Andrew Famous Players was using large reels with cinemation or showman2 and changeovers up until the late 80's
 

---

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-13-2004, 11:26 AM:
 
"Film Done Right" assumes a competent changeover, without any loss of continuity or added wear/dirt at the reel ends. Whether the projectionist makes up the reels and programs the automation, or makes the changeover themself, is irrelevant.
 

---

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 07-13-2004, 11:33 AM:
 
Well Brad, changeovers may not be better, but they are a heck of a lot cooler.

I assume when people are talking about "threading up on the 8", etc., they are referring to putting the 8-foot-mark in the gate. By that reckoning I thread up at nearly 10-1/2 feet in the gate (hot hole), assuming the reels are not missing frames at heads and tails due to previous (mis)handling. So there really is a wide variation depending on equipment and if at all possible one should practice first in an unfamiliar booth.
 

---

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-13-2004, 12:30 PM:
 
WTF are you speaking about, Brad...that E-7s are an oily joke of a machine? If you know how to operate them, and keep them maintained, oil is no problem. Furthermore, as I stated in another thread, some of the oiling can be eliminated by modifying with oil-lite bushings!

I have yet to see any machine...including the human body, that does not require lubrication of some type in order to function...I suggest you take Physics 111 at your local community college!

Change-overs resulting in excessively dirty heads and tails? WTF...pay attention to what John Pytlak said!
 

---

Posted by Jim Spohn (Member # 1547) on 07-13-2004, 01:54 PM:
 
In a change-over booth there is a better chance, not always, but usually that there is a compident person in the booth. From what I have seen in the past couple of years, the projection was better in the "old days"! By better I'm not talking about the amount of dirt on the film or how clearer the sound is now or how proper splices jump less. Most movie patrons don't even notice things like that. I'm talking about things that really affect a show. For example, a show I recently attended (platter house) featured the star of the movie on stage in person telling about the movie that audiance was about to see. This person was talking about the problems of production and lots of anticdotes about the cast and crew, when it was time for the movie to start, start it did!!
We found ourselves watching the end credits running upside-down and the sound running backward. This went on for about four minutes then the film ground to a halt and we all watched the frame burn. The screen went black for about ten minutes while the audiance was sitting in the dark, the screen suddenly came to life with the title of the film backward and the sound track showing on the right with a 24 click per-second buzz from the sound system as the frame marks went thru the opticl pick-up. When the film was finally right the whole thing was shown with an aperture plate that cropped a third of the picture. Although I was only a person attending the showing, I was embarrassed for the operator and the star. This is the kind of stuff that just didn't happen when the old-timers were running the show. This is only one piss poor show I've seen lately, there have been many others, not quite as bad, but not a good presentation either. And think of it ALL the advancments in the industry and poorly trained people can still screw up a show, go figure. ... Jim
 

---

Posted by Jim Bedford (Member # 4) on 07-13-2004, 01:55 PM:
 
Having said how much I like to handle film and do changeovers, I have to agree with Brad on the long term benefits of showing film built up on a well tuned machine. It may take the "fun" out of showing films reel-to-reel, but it does eliminate the uncertainty and handling of multiple reels for the certainty of a single continuous reel.

With well tuned platter systems used by properly trained operators only the first screening could have a soundtrack reversed, the projectionist doesn't have to properly thread film five or 12 times per show, doesn't have to remember to throw the reel locks, and multiple film heads can't hit the floor.

On the other hand, trying to make anything foolproof simply proves that they are always making better fools out there. Nothing beats proper training and paying constant attention.

And of course, this leads me to the soapbox of reminding folks what it was like before we had this website. Remember when projectionists often communicated with each other by rumor or at a bar with impaired faculties or not at all. If it weren't for Brad, film presentation wouldn't be as good as it is today. Thanks , Dude!
 

---

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-13-2004, 02:29 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

---

Running a changeover is nothing more than knowing what frame of the leader to cue up to and pressing a few buttons upon seeing marks on the film. Basically, a human robot.

---

Other than a CA-21, here is an example of the "Human Robot" our Grand-Poo-BAH would like to see in a change-over booth.



I think George Eastman's slogan: "You press the button, we do the rest" ought to be Brad's ID too.

>>> Phil
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-2004, 03:47 PM:
 
Performing a decent changeover is a skill, not a talent. There is no "art" in running changeovers. [av=n]
 

---

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-13-2004, 06:30 PM:
 
I cue up to 9' (6 seconds) in the dummy aperture which is 4 frames up from the real one.
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2004, 06:32 PM:
 
I put "10" plus 7 frames in the framing window on the #1 JJ, "10" plus 5 frames in the framing window on the #2 JJ. Once I get the 3 phase motors and inverters on there, I hope to slow that ramp up down to 6-7 seconds to full speed and match their ramp up perfectly.
 

---

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-13-2004, 06:36 PM:
 
I cue all my video stuff at 59h:59m:52s:00f.

>>> Phil
 

---

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-13-2004, 07:34 PM:
 
Since we have so many projectionists around, I went all out and made a chart several years ago:



It compensates for the speed of the outgoing projector between the motor cue and the tail, as well as the ramp up time and speed of the incoming projector on the leader, with some different choices for different humans.

If I had to do it again, I'd have given times for multiple fractions between 7+1 and 6+0, rather than going all the way down to the never-seen 2+1.

--jhawk
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2004, 07:36 PM:
 
That's not accurate at all jhawk. Even same model projectors ramp up at different rates, especially if you are going to take into account the first changeover of the day vs. subsequent changeovers. Your chart also doesn't take into account potential missing frames between the countdown and first frame of picture.

Don't forget, there is a FULL SECOND of action after the second changeover cue (assuming no frames missing). He who punches the changeover upon seeing that second cue is doing it wrong. There must be a pause just under 1 full second.
 

---

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-13-2004, 07:43 PM:
 
I'm sorry, Brad, I guess I wasn't clear. It compensates for the ramp up rates of those particular projectors, as measured empirically. That's why it says Right at the top. The chart for the left projector has different numbers.

The first changeover is a different story altogether, and is not reflected in the chart. Missing frames between the countdown and the first frame of picture? Those should be noted during inspection, and if not fixed, then they'd be on the cue sheet, and the projectionist would compensate for them. Sure, the chart doesn't address that. It's a tool for most situations, not absolutely every one.

--jhawk
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-2004, 07:47 PM:
 
Human fudge? Fudge packer alert![av=m]
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2004, 07:48 PM:
 
I find it MUCH easier to simply run each leader (assuming a cut print with potential missing frames) through a frame counter and note the proper thread up frame per reel than jack around with a chart. You should know exactly how many feet and frames it takes from the first frame of picture to the start frame on a frame counter on each machine. That's all you need. Charts are a waste of time.

Of course if you don't have automation to run the changeovers, you also have to play jack-around with how many frames are missing between the first cue mark and the last frame of image on the preceding reel, plus human slop. What a pain! Manual changeovers are stupid.

You're right though, I didn't notice that was for the "right" projector. How do you deal with the first reel of the day? How many frames do you miss at each changeover based upon your chart and in reality? Surely you have worked this out. You don't have to be overly exact, just tell me rounded to the nearest 1/10th of a frame.
 

---

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-13-2004, 08:01 PM:
 
The point of the chart is so that if someone is unfamiliar with the booth, they can determine where to thread. It also lets us work in variables, like the projectionist's reaction time to cue dots, or a shorter tail.

Writing a fixed length on the cue sheet wouldn't let you include those variables, and you might have to wonder whether the person who wrote up the cue sheet wrote the offset that they would thread up to, or that an average person would thread up to, etc.

In any case, it's a system that works for us. If you don't like it and you're in our booth, you can just ignore it and do it your way . Two-gang sync block is ready and waiting.

The first reel is always the trailer reel around here, we generally thread to wherever's convenient and count off. There's some black before the "Previews of Coming Attractions, so it's plenty forgiving anyhow. Even if you go straight into a feature, you can just watch it go. The first reel is easy (and pretty much all features have black after the 2 and 2-pop anyhow).

--jhawk
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2004, 08:09 PM:
 
I don't think I would ever want to run that booth, jhawk, but thank you anyway.

Re: projectionist reaction time, they should each know how many frames they are sluggish from the "spec" for that room.

Re: first reel of the day, I was referring to the first reel that is changed over TO of the day.
 

---

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-13-2004, 10:22 PM:
 
*YAWN*

(And I'm really surprised Brad didn't comment on the take-up direction on that "SLICK" diagram.)

>>> Phil
 

---

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-14-2004, 05:45 AM:
 
Yes, that diagram seems to assume that each reel is fed from a base out orientation and taken up emulsion out. The argument as to whether reels should be run base or emulsion out for projection has been thrashed to death on other threads, but unless there's a specific factor with this projector or booth that I'm not taking into account, this seems to me an unncecessary complication which increases the possibility of a mis-thread.

Maybe the convention is different in the US, but every single projector I've used here takes up emulsion out, i.e. the spool rotates clockwise (unless the print is a DIN print of course, but I hardly ever got any of those apart from the odd European nitrate print from the '30s). So, assuming that the projectionist doesn't reverse the orientation in rewinding, it would be necessary either to twist the film as it comes off the feed spool (which should only be a measure of very last resort, for obvious reasons), or to reverse it on the bench through two winds. Sooner or later I'd guess that someone is going to forget to do that (especially if there are lots of projectionists who might go a week or two without running any films), with the obvious consequence. The risk would be even greater if you ever show a full-gate silent print...
 

---

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 07-14-2004, 06:38 AM:
 
John,

Your diagram reflects the reel rotation and film orientation of every US 35mm projector I have ever seen. The feed spool rotates counter-clockwise (anti-clock) while the takeup rotates clockwise.

A reel of film that is returned to the film safe without rewinding will have the soundtrack on the wrong side if you try to thread it without rewinding first.

Does your full sized diagram of this threading path include the frame count for both the upper and lower loops? I place labels on the machine which give the frame count for lip sync so operators will not use the "finger width" technique.

Very nice graphic you have created!

KEN
 

---

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-14-2004, 07:43 AM:
 
In Europe, most places feed clockwise, I'd say about 80-90% do it that way, Though I have seen a picture of 70mm feeding anti-clockwise at the Empire Leicester Square, and the chief of one London cinema suddenly started feeding anti-clockwise a couple of years ago, having been feeding clockwise for over forty years.

Most projectors will quite happily feed either way, though I have seen a few old ones where the fire traps were designed i such a way that the film could be scratched if fed clockwise. Take up is normally clockwise on 35mm, and right-handed 16mm, machines; i.e. the film takes up the same way that it feeds.

With 35mm it seems to be clockwise reed in Europe, and anti-clockwise in the USA. Strangely, with the smaller guages the American (Kodak) designed ones, 16mm and 8mm, feed clockwise, while the European (Pathe) designed ones, 9.5mm and 17.5mm, normally feed anti-clockwise, and take up the same way. Again, I don't know why. I can't remember which way 28mm feeds, I've got a feeling that it's clockwise, but the machine is designed quite differently to those for any other gauge.

[ 07-14-2004, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Furley ]
 

---

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-14-2004, 08:22 AM:
 
Taking up emulstion-in. What's wrong with that?
 

---

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 07-14-2004, 09:16 AM:
 
Until the 1950s a good half of UK cinemas were equipped with Simplex projectors, feeding the film emulsion out anti-clockwise. Personally I preferred it this way, as you did not have to turn the film over when making a splice, we used to carefully rough the base side with a bit of fine emery paper.

The infamous although liked by some BTH SUPA (single unit projection assembly) projector, both feed and take-up was anti clockwise.

Back to the subject on changeovers. Before I installed a Westrex double-sided tower system when I was on 6000 foot spools, I used to get a great kick by watching the changeover being done by automation. Sometimes there were two changeovers with a supporting or double feature programme. My first encounter with automatic changeovers was during the 1960s with Projectomatic on 2000 reels.

When I did a couple of days relief work at the old Rex (ABC) Hanworth in Middlesex, installed was a pair of old Ross projectors with Western Electric universal bases. The projector would have just about have ramped up on the actually changeover, I think the lace up in the gate was on leader ‘3’ but could have been on ‘4’ maybe. Also something different in this cinema, was that the council would not allow the word EXIT displayed. WAY OUT was the only wording permitted.
 

---

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-14-2004, 11:55 AM:
 
Readers should be aware that Phil is jokingly referring to Brad's emulsion-out takeup modification.

Leo says, "very single projector I've used here takes up emulsion out, i.e. the spool rotates clockwise." You have that backwards, right? Clockwise takeup rotation yields emulsion-in.

Ken: No, it does not include frame counts for loops. No one here uses the "finger width" technique, all have been taught threading properly. And on Centuries, the top loop size is easily found by moving the the pad roller left (and the sound loop is easily checked against diamonds, etc.). In many ways the threading diagram is a nice-looking afterthought.

(I'm surprised no one complained about the film path running through the casting, rather than the slit. Ah well.)

When Stephen says "feeding clockwise," I assume you mean "the supply reel rotates clockwise" (rather than the takeup)? I'm 90% sure that's what you mean...

--jhawk
 

---

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-14-2004, 12:59 PM:
 
Yes, for 35mm feed spool rotates clockwise in most cases, take-up almost always rotates clockwise, I've seen a couple of towers that turn the other way. Film is usually emulsion in on both spools.

For 16mm right-handed machines the feed spool almost always rotates clockwise, the take-up usually does likewise, but there are some machines which take up the other way, anti-clockwise. You have to be careful about emulsiion position with 16mm, The standard for 16mm prints is for the film base to face the lamp, the opposite to 35 and 70mm, but the same as a 16mm reversal camera original. A clockwise rotating feed spool wiill therefore be emulsion out. Some 16mm priints however have the emulsion facing the lamp, and these would be emulsion in. To further complicate things, left-handed 16mm machines are not uncommon, and on these the spools will be seen to rotate in the opposiite direction, when viewed from the operating side. I think that's a fairly complete answer, but to put it more simply, on most 35mm and 16mm projectors over here the film comes down from the front of the feed spool.
 

---

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-14-2004, 01:23 PM:
 

quote: John Hawkinson

---

Leo says, "very single projector I've used here takes up emulsion out, i.e. the spool rotates clockwise." You have that backwards, right? Clockwise takeup rotation yields emulsion-in.

---

quote: John Hawkinson

---

Readers should be aware that Phil is jokingly referring to Brad's emulsion-out takeup modification.

---

YUP!

>>> Phil
 

---

Posted by Robert DeLoss Marken (Member # 2440) on 07-14-2004, 02:20 PM:
 
Andrew - Hi! I have a tip that was not mentioned - but I did not read all the replies completely. This is not important when running color but a must with B/W. Between the motor cue and the changeover cue, check and adjust the carbons to the correct position. If the positive is not exactly positioned correct, the picture will have a different color when changed. Poor presentation. I always did this even when running color.

Bob Marken
 

---

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-14-2004, 02:23 PM:
 
Leo wrote:

quote: Leo Enticknap

---

I've always rewound a reel as soon as it was run, i.e. I never stored them tail out.

---

quote: Stephen Furley

---

If for some reason I have to return a reel to the rack without rewinding it, I put it in the other way, with the film coming off the back, and the label not visble.

---

quote:

---

6.2 Motor cue
The motor cue shall consist of black circles or clear
circles, printed from a negative which has had four
consecutive frames marked as shown in figures 6, 7,
and 8 for 16-mm, 35-mm, and 70-mm films, respectively.
The position and dimensions of this mark shall
be as given in table 1. Following the four frames
containing the motor cue, there shall be 172 frames
to the beginning of the changeover cue.

---

quote:

---

6.3 Changeover cue
The changeover cue shall consist of four frames
containing circles of the same dimensions and position
on the frame as those in the motor cue. Following
the four frames of the changeover cue, there shall be
18 frames to the beginning of the runout section of the
trailer.

---