Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Rant On Bad Tech's

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 07-19-2004, 09:06 AM:

Are there bad tech's out there doing theater work.....I found at least one outfit that seems unfit to do tech work. A theater I've been helping needed a projector installed and I didn't think I had time to get it in as quickly as they needed. So, they hired this service out of Iola, Kansas that services several theaters in the area. I had the sound system tested and ready to go, all they had to do was connect the wires already in flex conduit to the projector. They installed a completely checked out (so they claimed) PRO-35 which they provided and sold to the theater. They finished the job, said it was ready to go and left. 2 days later I came to do some audio work and we decided to do a test run of the feature before the first show on this projector. The sound was low level, muddy and full of hum and noise. Turns out they never even bothered to run film and test the sound. Problem found to be a bad slit lense, probably full of oil. So much for a completely checked out projector. Also, the fire shutter is missing from the projector so if someone stops the film and doesn't close the dowser they will get a burned frame.

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-19-2004, 09:08 AM:

Post deleted by me.

[ 07-26-2004, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Jeremy Fuentes ]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-19-2004, 10:36 AM:

What I look for in a service tech is that he has had many years of previous experience in fields OTHER than projection work but related to it. One has to previously know electronics, optics, accoustics, and mechanics to be able to do projection work efficiently and dependably. I find that most serivice chains(most of you know who I am refering to) that just do service work only are by far the worst. They may have one qualified tech out of 10. I've found that most dealers are by far the most qualified and do the best service work. I've founf that its also fairly impossible to make a qualified tech out of a newbie in a short time period as some of the chain type service organizations have tried to do... with disastrous results usually.... However, there are persons once in a while that also just have the knack for the work.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 07-19-2004, 11:35 AM:

Up until about a year ago Wallace Theaters, one of my former employers, used American Cinema Equipment. I was never blown away by anything they did in our booth, but then again, we didn't have many things for ol' Dave to do when he came down.
We did everything except A and B chain ourselfs, that was because we didn't have the tools. The worst part failures we had were a couple pad rollers here and there.

However, and I'm not sure who the tech was, but he was from ACE, a manager from the Horizon theater once told me about courtesy cups of projector oil being left INSIDE an operating lamp house after an oil change. What it was doing in there to begin with is a mystery to me.

Wallace stopped using ACE sometime in early 2003.

Personally I've never had any problems with ACE, and the tech who came down each time I was there (Dave Miller I believe) was pretty good and answered questions for us as well as gave some of the less experienced good advice on opperating.

[ 07-20-2004, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: Dominic Espinosa ]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-20-2004, 01:01 AM:

That's interesting. I've known Scott Hicks since around 1980, when he was basically just a tech for Larry Moyer's Portland-area theatres. I don't use their service techs extensively (I do my own work), but they've given me good advice when I've asked. Their distribution system is very effective as well. I've purchased a lot if varied items from them, and have yet to stump the company on any problem I've tossed their way.

But then... I have a booker that I consider to be red-hot. I recommended her to a good friend of mine and the relationship didn't work out at all. Different strokes, I guess.

ACE also stocks Film Guard, which gives them 57 points by default.

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 07-20-2004, 01:22 AM:

quote: Jeremy Fuentes
Brad, do I even have to say anything? Brad knows who my tech is...

Well as long as Brad knows. [thumbsup]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-20-2004, 02:15 AM:

Jeremy... is his name George?[av=p]

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-20-2004, 07:24 AM:

Post deleted by me.

[ 07-26-2004, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Jeremy Fuentes ]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-20-2004, 08:45 AM:

If thats the Cliff that has the funny walk then we've been getting calls from several of his customers lately for booth supplies. Wonder whats up? Is he still in buisness or just doesn't call his customers back?

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-20-2004, 09:28 AM:

Post deleted by me.

[ 07-26-2004, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Jeremy Fuentes ]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-20-2004, 10:08 AM:

ED That is an example of why I avoid and usually now refuse to do split contractor installations Responsibilty splits usually never work out there should only be one contractor or each will end up blaming the other and in the end the customer will get screwed
Also I have never had a oily slit lens cause hum so there must have been another issue as well

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 07-20-2004, 11:40 AM:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad, do I even have to say anything? Brad knows who my tech is...

No you dont have to say anything Jeremy I will do it for you..... Cliff Anderson, Mr Fly By Night himself.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-20-2004, 01:24 PM:

What exactly do you mean by "Split Contractor" Gord?

In the past back in the Midwest I can't remember any big contractor problems, nor has there been any out here. At CLACO we do handle ALL aspects of an install though and we have our own full time people that do the seat installations, front ends, wall coverings, ticketing, and all other aspects of booth, auditorium work, and training. We are VERY lucky to be in this position and there are very few other dealers that can do jobs as we do them. Most rely on other contractors for various other aspects and this is what I assume you mean by split contractor.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-20-2004, 01:31 PM:

Mark, what kind of training does your company do? Extensive training to the point where a tech call is rare, or basic training?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-20-2004, 03:46 PM:

Jeremy,
We offer a training program that covers projection fundamentals and normal booth training/proper film handling techniques. As for service we offer over the phone assistance and on site service. Many problems can easily be solved with a tech over the phone, more extensive problems by on site visits and regular service PM calls. Am leaving in a few min for a run through Nevada and California. Will try to keep in touch here while on the road.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-20-2004, 04:36 PM:

exactly what happened here one company doing the sound system and a different one doing the projection

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 07-20-2004, 05:18 PM:

Ever known a tech who didn't think he knew everything? I was a tech and trainer in another field for 27 years, the most difficult trait to find in a tech trainee is the ability to recognize that you don't know and to stop and get assistance. Too many will blunder on.

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-20-2004, 06:07 PM:

Thanks Mark. I am looking for an extensive training type deal. More like a tech apprentice position. Thanks for the info.

Edited by me.

[ 07-26-2004, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Jeremy Fuentes ]

Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 07-20-2004, 07:38 PM:

I'm just helping out this theater installing 3 new screens. I'm not a tech service (although there may be a need for a good tech service in the area after experiencing this). I didn't think I had the time to install another projector and sound (I had already installed 2) in the time frame they needed. The people installing the projector also sold the theater the projector, the other 2 projectors came from another source. I know there are times when a tech may come across a problem or two but I find no excuse for doing an install and not even check to make sure the sound in the projector is working. And selling a projector that is stated as "completely gone over" implies everything works, not that it has a bad slit lens and a missing fire shutter.

Posted by Mike Babb (Member # 1379) on 07-20-2004, 09:02 PM:

I agree with Bill regarding trainees and on the other end, an experienced tech or trainer with an open mind is pretty nice as well.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-20-2004, 10:16 PM:

I don't think this specifically applies to the question above but I mention it because I was in the situation:

There are companies (who shall remain nameless) that don't put a lot of effort into overall care of their equipment and depend on one or two techs to take care of virtually all problems that occur in several locations all at once.

I went into my job with a lot of high ideals and a lot of zeal for the work I imagined I would be doing only to find out that my real job was doing "Meatball Surgery".

After a time, the implicit instructions, "Keep the theaters on-screen at all times", overtakes the ideals of "Film Done Right" and it takes a toll on your work ethic.

After several months of trying my hardest to do good work, only to see the machines literally torn apart in front of my eyes, I started doing the minimum necessary to just keep the machines running. A quick A-Chain, a simple adjustment and I was out the door to drive on to the next theater where some teenage punk just disassembled a sound head into 1,000 pieces on the floor.

That ACTUALLY happend to me! I came to a theater that simply claimed to be off-screen with "sound trouble" to find the sound head rent assunder, down to the nuts and bolts. There was another time when the GM had a film wrap and tried to untangle the film by beating on the shutter with a ball peen hammer! Finally, the last straw happened when a guy actually caught a Christie rectifier on fire by putting the diodes in all catty wompass!

I admit there were plenty of times when I didn't do my best work but, working under conditions like that, can you blame me?

When I realized that my work was going down the tubes and there was no end to the trouble in sight, I decided to get out of Dodge. There are plenty of times when I wish I could get back into the business like I used to be but I REFUSE to do it for a company that doesn't back up its front-line techs.

Therefore, I can see where some techs would do substandard work at times. However, if you're talking about a guy who's running his own business and is supposed to make a living on his work and reputation, I can't see how he'll be in business much longer unless he's got the only game in town.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-20-2004, 11:24 PM:

quote: Bill Enos
Ever known a tech who didn't think he knew everything?

I've personally known two of them, Bill, and I respected them all the more for their ability to be open to new ideas. Sadly, they're no longer with us, but knowing them was certainly good for me.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-21-2004, 07:42 PM:

"Ever known a tech who didn't think he knew everything?"

Most of the techs that I've known with the exception of a few were pretty open minded. The others that I work with now are very open minded Anyone that can't admit to not knowing everything or a tech that doesn't learn something new every day is just not being honest with him/herself. I would generally classify them as a bullshitter.

Mark @ CLACO
(Live from Elko, NV!)

Posted by William Uhlhorn (Member # 1923) on 07-28-2004, 12:46 PM:

It is a shame some of you are bashing Cliff. Especially Mark. I think your "funny walk" remark was way off base. If you are ever injured in an auto accident and both of your legs are crushed perhaps you to will have a "funny walk". And William Parr talking about someone he has never met. Amazing. Cliff has been my service tech for over 20 years. He is also my friend. There are always two sides to every story. I tend to beleive my friend. And Jeremy why did you delete / edit your posts?

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-28-2004, 01:03 PM:

Because I wanted to.

Edit: And because I felt that it was a mistake on my part to bash someone that has many years of experience over me. I was mostly speaking out of frustration with the position that I am currently in, when it comes to my job. Thats why. I feel like I owe Cliff an apology for even mentioning his name here, and thats all that I will have to say on this subject. You can tell him that I said that.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-28-2004, 02:33 PM:

"Because I wanted to." Must be nice to be able to slam someone and then just make it go away
Maybe Brad should find an archive and put those posts back and lock it so every day you can look at why once you say something youve said it

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 07-28-2004, 02:43 PM:

Posted a negative comment about Gordon, then deleted it because I realized it was a mistake. And I am able to admit to it, twice in the same thread.

Posted by Rick Mort (Member # 2554) on 07-28-2004, 03:30 PM:

Paul Thompson was my wing man. I just started doing projection when I first meet Paul. He showed up to do some work and ended up literally having to train me at projection. I have nothing bad to say about him except he reamed my ass so bad the week he trained me that I'm still walkin funny.

Posted by Steven Jantzen (Member # 2575) on 07-28-2004, 08:27 PM:

my theatre has had a number of bad techs, but the new one we have now is absolutly awesome.Gary stanley from colorado. I'm a rookie at projecting, and he was able to teach me some really great things.

I personally am glad to have a good tech around. One thing I do want to mention though is that from a professional standpoint.(that being that I do some free lance computer and website work on the side) Being able to admit that you don't know something shows that you have integrity, accountability, and if your willing to learn about what you don't know, a sense of honor. It takes a big person to admit that he doesn't know everything, especially when your job could very well be on the line. It also shows that you are willing to grow professionally. no one know everything, there is alway something new to learn.

Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 08-03-2004, 09:01 AM:

UPDATE: Well, after a few emails from the company in question stating in so many words the job was done right, they finally agreed it was not and came yesterday to install the missing fire shutter and power supply. At one point I suggested to the theater they write the Kansas Attorney General and file a complaint, that may have gotten someones attention. Or perhaps they saw this post and don't want bad press (no names mentioned but not hard to figure out who). Whatever the reason, at least it got resolved.