This is topic Anhydrous Alchohol for cleaning in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Graeme David Pirrie (Member # 2592) on 07-27-2004, 09:27 AM:
 
Need to find a supplier of Anhydrous Alchohol for cleaning purposes. Does anyone hava a supplier I can contact? I will need to specify bottles that are less than 1 liter. Thanks
 

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Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 07-27-2004, 11:58 AM:
 
Alcohol can be found in any drug store... comes in quart bottles.
HOWEVER, some parts of projection equipment are made of plastic,
and alcohol could damage them.

fjn

local 294 Ret.

P.S. The alcohol you are looking for is common rubbing alcohol.
 

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Posted by Andrew Shingleton (Member # 2257) on 07-27-2004, 12:40 PM:
 
We just go to our local chemist and buy 100ml bottles of isopropyl alcohol - can't remember the cost but it's less than $10AUD so it's not very expensive. If you want bigger bottles you usually have to get them to order it in for you.
 

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Posted by Ron Yost (Member # 1850) on 07-27-2004, 01:10 PM:
 
Anhydrous alcohol is -not- common antiseptic 'rubbing' (isoprophyl) alcohol. It is denatured ethyl alcohol (ethanol), derived from wood. It can be bought in paint stores as Shellac thinner.

I don't know what you want to clean with it, but if it's cleaning projection equipment you want isoprophyl, -not- anhydrous alcohol. It's available from drugstores in various strengths .. up to 90%.

Be careful with it, as suggested earlier.

Ron Yost
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-27-2004, 01:45 PM:
 
If you have some requirement for pure alcohol try going to the liquor store and buying some "Everclear".

Everclear is 190 proof (95% pure) grain alcohol. That's about as pure as a regular consumer is likely to get. Any stronger than that and you're probably going to have to go through an industrial supply company. You're probably going to have to submit a lot of paperwork to prove your intentions in using it.

I agree with the above people who say to keep the alcohol away from plastic and rubber parts, lest it attack the material the parts are made from.

Whatever you do, don't try to use "Denatured Alcohol" that you get from the hardware store. Yes, it is grain alcohol (ethanol) but it mixed with wood alcohol (METHanol) and a little bit of acetone to "denature" it. (i.e.: To make it undrinkable, thus not subject to liquor taxes and laws.) The only thing denatured alcohol is really good for is stripping shellac (and/or paint, etc.) and for use as a lamp fuel. Even though there is only a small amount of acetone in the mix, it will eat any/all parts that are made of plastic unless you are super careful with it.

Honestly, I echo the sentiments of those who post above: Just go to the local CVS or Wal-Mart and buy 90% isopropyl alcohol off the shelf. It's only $1.98 a bottle or something like that. It's cheap, easy to get and it does the job as well as you need as long as you are careful with it.
 

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Posted by Ron Yost (Member # 1850) on 07-27-2004, 02:42 PM:
 
Wow .. I've never heard of Everclear. Thanks, Randy.

Ron Yost .. loves the smell of denatured alcohol and shellac. Possibly explains a few things.
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 07-27-2004, 02:58 PM:
 
I'd love to tell my GM that we need a booth supply of Everclear, I'd have a lot more candidates for booth work with that on hand

-500th post
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 07-27-2004, 03:01 PM:
 
Graeme:

Use caution with alcohol of any type! At the Air Force theatre I started at, we used denatured alcohol to clean the machines. We had to stop when the AAFES engineer tried to remove a sprocket casting from our XL's. Seems that ALL types of alcohol attract water and the sprocket assembly was rusted to the main casting!

I should clarify that the practice was to place a rag in the soundhead to protect the optics and lateral guide roller, then spray the projector head from the top down! Made the heads clean enough to eat out of, but I'd always thought it to not be the best way. Turns out it was a practice started at our sister base in Arizona. And stopped by us!
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-27-2004, 03:04 PM:
 

quote: Ron Yost

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Anhydrous alcohol is -not- common antiseptic 'rubbing' (isoprophyl) alcohol. It is denatured ethyl alcohol (ethanol), derived from wood.

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"Wood Alcohol" is methanol, and will harm some plastics, paints, and other materials. Ethyl alcohol is grain alcohol, the same kind found in liquor. It can be "denatured" to make it unfit to drink or even poisonous.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/me/methanol2.html

quote: John Pytlak

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methyl alcohol, or wood alcohol, CH3OH, a colorless, flammable liquid that is miscible with water in all proportions. Methanol is a monohydric alcohol. It melts at -97.8°C and boils at 67°C. It reacts with certain acids to form methyl esters. Methanol is a fatal poison. Small internal doses, continued inhalation of the vapor, or prolonged exposure of the skin to the liquid may cause blindness. As a result, commercial use of methanol has sometimes been prohibited. Methanol is used as a solvent for varnishes and lacquers, as an antifreeze, and as a gasoline extender in the production of gasohol.

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quote: John Pytlak

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OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH GUIDELINE FOR ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL

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quote: John Pytlak

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ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL (90 - 100%)

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1. Product Identification
Synonyms: 2-Propanol; sec-propyl alcohol; isopropanol; sec-propanol; dimethylcarbinol
CAS No.: 67-63-0
Molecular Weight: 60.10
Chemical Formula: (CH3)2 CHOH

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quote: John Pytlak

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One of the most frequently asked questions we receive about film cleaning is: "What film cleaning solution do you recommend that we use?" Unfortunately, there is no simple answer to this question. After extensively searching for a "replacement" for 1,1,1-Trichloroethane, no one chemical has been identified as having all the positive performance attributes of 1,1,1-Trichloroethane. The table below provides a list of alternative solvents suitable for cleaning motion picture films (ECN, ECI, ECP). Each solvent has been tested for color image dye stability and physical deformation of the film (e.g., base curling). In the table you will note that there are many differences between the solvents: boiling points, cost, cleaning ability, etc. The choice of a solvent will be dependent upon its particular application and additionally may be subject to rules and regulations regarding health, safety, and environmental considerations. We strongly suggest that you fully research and carefully test any film cleaning solution to determine if it will fulfill all your specific operational and end-product quality criteria before making a final selection.

The successful and safe use of these solutions in existing (or future) film cleaning equipment has been left to the equipment manufacturers since they must optimize their equipment for the individual properties of the various solutions (e.g., machine speed, drying temperature, part compatibility, cleaning setup, safety features, etc.).

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quote:

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I should clarify that the practice was to place a rag in the soundhead to protect the optics and lateral guide roller, then spray the projector head from the top down!

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Geez.. spraying down machinery on a routine basis with alchohol... what idiot came up with that?

danny
 

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Posted by Don E. Nelson (Member # 1049) on 07-27-2004, 05:24 PM:
 
andydrous means: with out water, remember that from chemistry class Brad? The water is removed by heating and/or vacuum to produce anhydrous alcohol.
For optics, you really don't want any water in your final cleaning swipe. Alcohol will evaporate cleanly.
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 07-28-2004, 01:58 AM:
 
Dan:

Would have loved to find out. This same idiot suggested the alcohol as a solution to sticky start contacts on the motor! Let the fun begin!
I wish I still had a copy of the booth proceedures from that room. Lots of strange ideas. None of which were approved by AAFES anyway.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-28-2004, 09:21 AM:
 
Isopropyl Alcohol is available as Anhydrous (little or no water...there is normally a 99.X % pure version available). This is NOT the same thing as Rubbing Alcohol which is typically 10% water by volume.

Tape head cleaner was pretty much forced to Anhydrous Isopropyl when 1,1,1 Triclor... was banned by the wackos.

Steve
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-28-2004, 10:30 AM:
 
For Ron: Everclear

I really don't recommend keeping this in your booth. It's some nasty freakin' stuff! If one of your employees gets hold of it and thinks it's cool to drink he/she could end up in the hospital or even 6 feet under!

If you drank two shots of Everclear it would be the equivalent of drinking a HALF CASE of beer. The difference is that you can't drink 12 beers in 30 seconds. (Unless you are Phill Hill ) Your blood alcohol level would skyrocket in a matter of minutes and you'd probably be in an alcohol-induced stupor (or unconscious) within the hour!

Everclear is sold mainly for making other drinks from. For instance, you might mix an ounce or two of Everclear into a full pitcher of fruit juice, lemonade or Kool-Aid to make the equivalent of "Hard Lemonade", etc. You can also make other liqueurs and cordials.

When I was in college, it was popular to get a bowl of fruit and dowse it with Everclear and let it soak in for a few hours. Some people also cut open a watermelon and poured in some Everclear. Then you leisurely ate the fruit and caught a buzz from it.

Stories abound in these parts which tell of kids getting their hands on the stuff then drinking it straight or with little dilution. Blindness, hospitalization and death are the common threads in the stories.

If you think you need pure (or nearly pure) alcohol for some purpose, then OK, but seriously think twice before keeping that junk in your booth. Unless you have some special purpose in mind, I don't see why other cleaners that you can buy wouldn't do just as good a job.

Steve's mention of "Tape Head Cleaner" being anhydrous alcohol might be an avenue for you to persue but, if you need any quantity of it, you're probably going to spend a lot of money.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 07-28-2004, 11:26 AM:
 
Florida is one of those "wierd" states where you can't get 190 proof Everclear. Only the weaker 153 proof. If we ever need the real stuff, we have to drive up to Georgia.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Steven Jantzen (Member # 2575) on 07-28-2004, 03:17 PM:
 
about critisizing cleaning practices

in my booth it is common practice to mix 5 oz of film gaurd with one bottle of 91% alcohol. take the gate off, lay some paper towels on the floor, and just douse the entire projector from the top down. as mentioned before, it does make the projectors extremely clean, and when the alcohol evaporates, film gaurd is left behind for a film freindly environment. I never thought that alcohol would attack certain parts, because i've not seen any detrimental effects whatsoever.
About the everclear, i tend to agree, it has no place in the work place. The possibility of abuse and misuse is just too high. If you have any ideas on other ways to clean the projectors without alcohol, or have had any problems with using it, please let me know.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-28-2004, 04:51 PM:
 
So where does the water go when the alcohol evaporates? Rubbing alcohol should be banned from the booth. The anhydrous versions are okay for some cleaning but rubbing alcohol is not...the alcohol will allow the water to wick into things, the alcohol evaporates and then you have a rusty mess left behind.

Steve
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 07-28-2004, 04:57 PM:
 

quote: Steven Jantzen

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in my booth it is common practice to mix 5 oz of film gaurd with one bottle of 91% alcohol. take the gate off, lay some paper towels on the floor, and just douse the entire projector from the top down

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ach!!!

What kind of projectors are you running?!?! I'm sure any sealed bearings and oil seals that are subjected to that practice are ruined. I'd bet your machines are in desperate need of a compleat rebuild from all that abuse.

You really only need a clean rag to wipe any dust from the inside, and a toothbrush for the sprockets. If you have FG you never really need to clean at all.

Danny
 

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Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 07-28-2004, 10:59 PM:
 
Why all you really need is some spit, a rag, and some WD-40. Yep, you guessed it, works better than any other alcohol or cleaner available.
 

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Posted by Bill Mantz (Member # 754) on 07-28-2004, 11:20 PM:
 
So that is what I have been cleaning off my projectors, I was wondering what the slimy residue was.
Thanks. Ethan
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-29-2004, 10:18 AM:
 
I have to agree that if you are spraying ANYTHING into your projectors you are doing it wrong!

I use FG in my booth. Like Dan said, cleaning is a breeze. Every show we use a clean rag to wipe out the film compartment(s) then we are done. Every so often (about once a week) we to a "Take-Apart Cleaning" where the trap and shoe get removed so that we can clean out the nooks and crannies. After that, the shutter guard is removed every couple of months to dust out the area behind the film plane. Other than that, my students don't ever do anything more than wipe off the outside of the projector housing with a cloth and some dusting spray. (Endust, etc.) Any other cleaning (besides lenses) is reserved for the times when I, myself, do maintainence and upkeep on the machine.

In principle, I agree with Steve but if you are keeping your machine(s) clean in the first place, you will use so little alcohol to clean your projector that it makes a difference only if you are cleaning critical parts. (Like lenses, as mentioned above.) In the few times that alcohol IS used, the amount is what you get from dunking a Q-Tip (or specially made cleaning swab) into a cup of liquid. Once the part in question (film band, etc.) is clean, the other (dry) end of the swab might be used to remove any residue or water left on the part.

The great bulk of alcohol that gets used in my booth is for keeping the window(s) clean. (Windex first. Then alcohol and plenty of elbow grease.) Even then, a bottle of alcohol lasts plenty long time. In my single booth, I buy one or two bottles per year. If you run a commercial operation with 10+ machines, I can't imagine why you would need more than one or two bottles per MONTH.

If you go through it much faster than that, you have an alcohol problem!
 

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Posted by Steven Jantzen (Member # 2575) on 07-29-2004, 02:05 PM:
 
that's interesting about the water. i haven't seen any problems from the bearings or anything else. yes, every night at close, we take a dry cloth and wipe the gate, trap, and shoe down, and kinda run a toothbrush over the sprokets. huh, to be honest, about once a month, i take the gate, trap, and gate latch assembly out to throughly clean everything from the shutter forward. Even then, i haven't seen any rust.

quote: Steve Guttag

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So where does the water go when the alcohol evaporates?

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quote: Dan Lyons

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What kind of projectors are you running?!?! I'm sure any sealed bearings and oil seals that are subjected to that practice are ruined. I'd bet your machines are in desperate need of a compleat rebuild from all that abuse.

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quote: Dan Lyons

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You really only need a clean rag to wipe any dust from the inside, and a toothbrush for the sprockets. If you have FG you never really need to clean at all.

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