Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Please give me a good argument as to why you should tape down head leaders on reels

This is topic Please give me a good argument as to why you should tape down head leaders on reels in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006414

Posted by Robert L. Fischer (Member # 2424) on 07-30-2004, 03:05 AM:

A few days ago, one of the guys from DHL came to pick up a print of Shrek 2 from my theater. The print was originally at our theater, then went to our drive-in and came back to the theater for shipping upon break-down. I happened to open up one of the film canisters and noticed that none of the reels were taped down. I was quite embarrassed by this, so I went to get some masking tape (our parent company apparently doesn't know what artist tape is) to tape them down. One of our assistant managers, who happens to be best friends with the guy who tore the movie down, gave me hell for making such a big deal out of this and took the "I don't give a @#%!" approach to the situation. I disagreed with her, and although I know more about film than she does, I didn't quite have a really good argument to make other than it was respectful for the next guy who handles the print. What other potential problems could I use as ammo in my war on careless co-workers?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-30-2004, 03:32 AM:

I don't know if you've ever received a print like this, Robert. If you have, you know that left untaped, the ends will progressively unwind in shipping. They'll wrap under other reels and eventually unwind to the point that the reels and container walls will damage the image area that's part of the movie itself. In addition, any dirt that gets into the cans has a far better chance to get into the subject area of the film than would be the case if the reels had remained tightly wound. I'm sure you know that this dirt will eventually cause scratch damage, which will result in a presentation that's less than what YOU got out of the print when it was new. This does nothing more than enhance the digital industry's argument why their equipment can compensate for the alleged fact that we can't manage to do our jobs.

By themselves, those are at least two good reasons to make sure the ends are securely tied down. Others here can, no doubt, add good reasons, too. It's not merely a matter of esthetics.

Good luck, convincing your inexperienced manager (figures, doesn't it?).

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-30-2004, 05:38 AM:

Make the idiot sign a statement saying that she shall absolve and hold you harmless in any and all legal or punitive actions which the distributor might levy due to print damage which is the direct result of her intentionally preventing you from taping down leaders while she ignored proper industry-wide, print handling procedures. It should also state that she shall assume full responsibility for shipping out prints with film loose on the reels.

Then refer her to this Forum here where we will happily OUT her sorry ass and where she can read why it would be best for her to quit the movie business altogether and go take up a career at some fast food franchise where she can make a whopping minimum wage and go home at night with her cloths smelling worse than her attitude and her attitude smelling worse than her dog breath.

So what exactly do these people actually consider important and serious enough to make "a bid deal" about? Is ANYTHING worthy of their attention? Me thinks these are the types who probably can't even be bothered to wipe themselves.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-30-2004, 09:08 AM:

quote: Robert L. Fischer
...so I went to get some masking tape (our parent company apparently doesn't know what artist tape is) to tape them down.

Please try to get tape that will not leave a residue or dry out.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 07-30-2004, 03:16 PM:

Not only will it be a filthy mess then the next theater gets it but you could get in trouble as mentioned before. Though in my experience I havn't heard of any problems like this with wide release prints like that. I could see if it was an older movie or if it was a limited run.

Masking tape is purely unacceptable as is zebra tape. The residue is terrible and frames must be sacrificed.
I use only clear tape for building and securing leaders. It's also a good idea to peel off the tape when breaking down. If the next theater runs changeovers they'll appreciate a good splice there.

I'd say print damage is the biggest reason you can give her. It affects everyone. She wouldn't want to come and watch a filthy ass movie with scratches all over it would she? If she can ignore them she's definitely got no business being in this business.

Besides you don't want someone like me to get something like that...I'll call your theater and bitch.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-30-2004, 03:56 PM:

People like that are sooooooooooo lucky I don't run a print shipping depot. I would have to have a bigger staff to handle invoicing than in the inspection room.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-30-2004, 04:13 PM:

Well, I guess this underscores the need for good quality reel bands, with REAL strings! But, oh, they don't need no stinkin' reel bands anymore! Look how progressive the industry's become during the last 25 years!

MPE, where are you?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-30-2004, 05:23 PM:

How about big rubber bands?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 07-30-2004, 06:20 PM:

quote: Dominic Espinosa
Masking tape is purely unacceptable

Serious question, because this issue comes up all the time and I keep forgetting to ask for opinions on this...

Would it be better to use NO TAPE or MASKING TAPE?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 07-30-2004, 06:55 PM:

Dom, I think they are referring to securing the ENDS of the leaders (in lieu of proper reel bands) and not attaching the leaders back to the print with masking tape. In that case, masking tape should be perfectly fine (though artist's tape is ideal) for that purpose, provided enough is used to allow for proper fastening of the loose end.

Of course the leaders should be attached to the print head and tail with clear splicing tape.

-Aaron

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-30-2004, 07:23 PM:

quote: Steve Kraus
How about big rubber bands?

Steve, oh how brilliant minds work alike. In fact, we did try large rubber bands -- they fit perfectly on 2000ft reels and they looked like the were designed for it. Seemed like a great idea for storage, but then I discovered that if they are left on the reel for an extended length of time, surprisingly enough, they begin to leave an indentation in the film, right down the center. I don't know how serious this would be over the long hall or how far down that impression would copy, revolution to revolution. It might be that it wouldn't go down far enough to impact the image area (the leader might absorb the pressure), or even if it did reach the image, it wouldn't be as defined as in the layers very near the end of the reel. Even if you could detect some slight deformation in the picture area, it it probably would not adversely effect projection, but the fact that anything I did would phsicial change the film itself is verboten as far as I am concerned. I'll try to get some pics to show you what I am talking about. Funny thing is, the rubber bands are large enough so as not to be particularly tight, I would have never thought they could make any kind of impression on the film itself.

It was nearly a perfect solution to reelbands and/tape.

Posted by Mike Babb (Member # 1379) on 07-30-2004, 07:27 PM:

Be careful, rubber bands decompose over time, I found this out on some of my posters...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-30-2004, 07:31 PM:

The old reels (the ones that didn't clip together) that were glued together would put a crease down the center of the film on the last several wraps due to the seam. So long as there was plenty of tail leader it didn't matter, but still I would assume the pressure from a rubber band could eventually cause a similar problem on the outer wraps.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-30-2004, 08:28 PM:

A rubber band of this size would be a bit of a weapon in the wrong hands [evil]

Steve

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-30-2004, 09:37 PM:

Rubber bands may contain sulfur compounds, which will have an adverse effect on the image.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-30-2004, 11:36 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
A rubber band of this size would be a bit of a weapon in the wrong hands

But! In the "right" hands, it becomes a surprisingly effective toy of surprise for the dungeon.... especially when you tie a big ol' gnarly knot in the "business end". [Wink]

>>> Phil

Posted by Robert L. Fischer (Member # 2424) on 07-30-2004, 11:52 PM:

I use one-sided splices to attach the tail and head leaders and have to use masking tape to secure the end of the reel out of necessity. If it were up to me, we would use artist tape, but since I will make no more than $7 an hour until I am the GM, I have basically no control over this. Others use masking tape for attaching the head and tail leaders, but I feel I at least do some justice by using one-sided splices with clear tape for those. Believe me, if I could do something better, I would.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-31-2004, 12:32 AM:

quote: Robert L. Fischer
Others use masking tape for attaching the head and tail leaders

You should show them this thread! (And do a search on the words "masking tape" and you'll see just how hated your co-workers' methods are by decent film-handlers.)

Posted by Robert L. Fischer (Member # 2424) on 07-31-2004, 12:40 AM:

Believe me, I've tried, but it's hard to get high school kids who make $6 an hour listen. I'm slowly imposing my ways on them though. [Big Grin]

I've at least gotten most of the ushers to use smaller loops in the projector, and they're starting to get the hang of how to properly frame a movie.

I don't expect anyone there to care as much as I do because not everyone is going to have the same love for the job as I do. Most of the people who work there could just as easily be working fast food and making the same amount of money. It's just something to make a little extra cash while going to school, and it's hard to expect someone who's put in a position they didn't necessarily asked to be put in to be as careful as I am. But, hey, I do what I can.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-31-2004, 10:02 AM:

Hey Robert, your dedication is admirable. Keep up the good work. It's an imperfect world with sometimes incredibly imperfect people, but just keep plugging along and you might be surprised at how much your craftsmanship can influence others. Even HS kids, as much as we sometimes rail against then occasionally here, can be as dedicated and conscientious maybe even more so as any of us old farts because they can have the added quality of idealism in the mix. Sometimes all they need is to be shown the correct way; the good example of a coworker who "does film right" might be all that is needed to inspire them. Trick is not to lord it over them or come off as "I'm right and you're an idiot" (as much as you might think it from time to time). And also, if you find you are banging your head against a wall with some of them, don't let it make yourself crazy....just quietly plot to have them publicly disgraced and humiliated. [Big Grin]

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 07-31-2004, 01:05 PM:

Frank is right.
The attitude that "kids" are innept is completely rediculous. Expecting a 16, or 17, or 18, or 19 year old "kid" to do a good job and take pride in it is not out of the question. I've seen this attitude and it makes for a very sloppy theater.
At an age where their work habbits are still being formed a skillful manager can make them an excellent employee. Naturally they have to have the energy and want for the job to keep up and sometimes there are duds who just can't tow it.
I expect nothing less from projectionists especially since they're ultimately responsible for the theaters #1 product.

Back to the subject however...I prefer artist tape but half the prints I get nowadays have masking tape on them...even green prints. I like reel bands. They're a pain in the ass, but... When I recieved that horrid print of Roberto Benigni's Pinocchio there was a nice gash in the reel band but only a small green speck on one frame of the reel.
R.I.P. Reel bands...

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 07-31-2004, 01:34 PM:

Here's a good argument...Because it's safe!!!

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 07-31-2004, 10:41 PM:

So...

..is it preferable to use no tape at all...or masking tape?

I have actually received used prints with the leader wound under the last revolution of film and not taped down. Personally, I would have preferred just about anything to that. Film was everywhere in those cans. So much untangling!

I started to relax about masking tape after getting that print.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 08-01-2004, 01:03 AM:

Although artist's tape is preferable, I don't see anything wrong with using masking tape for securing the leaders, since it never comes in contact with the image. Of course using anything other than clear splicing tape to attatch the leaders is unacceptable.

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-01-2004, 01:39 AM:

Hey Robert, you said in the Anchorman review thread, tell her that if she knew what was good for her she would shut her whorish mouth! [Wink]

I know what you mean about paying people minimum wage, you pay someone $5 or so an hour and that is the quality of work you will get, regardless of age. Personally, I think that anyone dealing with film should be making no less than $8 an hour. Unfortunately, that is more than a lot of places pay their managers.

Posted by Robert L. Fischer (Member # 2424) on 08-01-2004, 05:21 AM:

Exactly. Assistant manager: $6.75 an hour. Gotta love it.

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 08-01-2004, 12:45 PM:

$7.50 an hour with 2 kids. [Mad]

I have to have another job during the day just to support my habit of wanting to stay in this business. I'm sure glad I work for an independent rather than a big chain who dont pay their managers that much.

[ 08-01-2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Jeremy Fuentes ]