Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cellular - read if you have not built your print

This is topic Cellular - read if you have not built your print in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006547

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-09-2004, 05:05 AM:

Just a note to anyone who has not assembled their print of Cellular. The 3-4 minutes of the end credits are done in a very lame fashion of the actors looking at their phones as the display reads: bad directing by David R. Ellis and worst performance by an actress Kim Basinger, etc.

Because they are cutting camera angles so fast, the first few minutes of the end credits look like normal action unless you are paying extra close attention. As such, when you go to place your lights up cue at the beginning of the credits, pay extra close attention to it's placement. The proper placement is a couple hundred feet BEFORE the white text on black credit roll starts.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-09-2004, 01:01 PM:

I kept the houselights down until the white-on-black credits. With a bright screen I can't imagine anyone would have safety concerns for those exiting during the those early credits. Unless the point of raising the lights is to shoo people along.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-09-2004, 02:24 PM:

Every theater has different policies for whatever reason. I think it is safe to say though that *most* customers will want to leave as soon as the first credit comes up and customers can trip and fall without extra lighting, so it is done for safety reasons.

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 09-09-2004, 06:08 PM:

My feeling is that the lights should be down only if the "picture" on screen durring he credits is something that the audience will stick around and watch, like outakes or extra scenes. Fancy credits are still just credits. No one will stick around for them.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-09-2004, 06:33 PM:

It will be interesting because in all likelyhood the average theatre won't know this and make a conscious decision one way or the other but will mindlessly cue at the start of the black credits as Brad's note seeks to avoid. So after they discover this will they make the effort to move the cue (or bump the lights up by hand) or just leave it be?

Posted by Rich Granata (Member # 2285) on 09-09-2004, 07:29 PM:

Someone else is assembling the print right now, but now I plan on fixing it tomorrow morning. Thanks Brad [thumbsup]

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 09-09-2004, 09:42 PM:

Our automations are programmed to cue the house lights up and door holding magnets on the same cue, and with the majority of our patrons evacuating the auditorium at the moment a credit seems to be approaching their eyes, I was compelled to cue the lights at the beginning of the lame cell phone sequence.
(not counting the rest of the movie as a sequence) [Smile]

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-09-2004, 10:44 PM:

Ah...door hold magnets. I don't know why more theatres don't use this basic idea. I have this at my screening room. Not tied to automation; just switch operated. It saves having to go release a manual prop.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-09-2004, 10:51 PM:

If they were more common, I wonder how long it would take before someone launched a lawsuit after being injured by a door that suddenly started to close.

Posted by Mike Perju (Member # 1482) on 09-10-2004, 12:18 AM:

Daryl, you can set the doors to close really slowly. You might want to place warning stickers on the doors themselves. After all, nobody sues for walking into a closing motorized handicaped access door.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-10-2004, 12:56 AM:

You expect 'motorized' doors to open and close by themselves. Stickers don't mean [bs]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-11-2004, 03:59 AM:

I've seen two or three films recently which had some 'fancy' credits before the normal scrolling ones. I remember that one of them had some old '50s style adverts type things, was it 'Mona lisa Smile'? It was a few months ago now.

The first time I ran the film I didn't know what was coming, so I brought the lights half up when the 'fancy credits started. about a third of the audience left during this section, i.e. before the plain credits started. On the next show, I brought the lights up as the plain credits hit the screen. I don't think anybody left during the 'fancy' credits. The same thing happened in the other two screenings of that film that I ran. If people had been trying to leave during the 'fancy' credits, then I think I would have brought the lights up then, but I think the presentation looks better if they are kept down. I fring the lights up from half to full, and bring the non-sync back in, as the curtains finish closing. At some shows most of the audience are still there at that point, at others, most have left; I don't know why the difference.

It seems that the lights coming up are a stronger cue to the audience to leave than the credits appearing on screen. In my day, it was always the closing of the curtains that signalled the end of the film, but in those days of course films didn't have the ridiculous six or seven hundred feet of credits that you sometimes see now.

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 09-11-2004, 04:52 AM:

It would not be hard to set up the doors with a motion detector. When the feature cue runs through, the magnet door system gets the signal, but then checks with the motion sensor, and then waits for the first opportunity to close the door.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-11-2004, 05:06 PM:

Then the doors would be unpredictable even for those that know they close by themselves. Although on a 15 or 20 second no motion delay, it'd probably work well as long as there aren't any proximity issues to deal with.

It wouldn't be hard for an usher to close them.

That said, I've always liked them (since the majority of ushers never seem to close doors on time) and wouldn't worry too much about using them in Canada since we don't sue each other as much.

I'm just worried about someone walking square into the end of the door as it starts to close when they are looking the other way, such as some people do when they're with a group.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-11-2004, 05:11 PM:

Anyone using magnetic latches on the auditoriums doors SHOULD have them set to close very slowly (10+ seconds). With the doors closing that slow, anyone who has an accident from them is just looking for a lawsuit and would've found something else to sue over anyway.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-11-2004, 07:58 PM:

If you want the door to close that slow, you have to be careful about which door closer you use, since most will bleed off all of their pressure by the time it closes causing the door to latch loudly.

Closing the door slow isn't going to prevent a head on injury anyway since the door would be in the first ~15 degrees of motion, only in motion for a second or two at most.

Just look at all the sim rides which have signs, lines on the floor, and audio/visual warnings about the doors moving by themselves.

An usher should be going in just before the show starts to kick out all the noisy people anyway. They can close the door on their way out.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-11-2004, 08:09 PM:

quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea
An usher should be going in just before the show starts to kick out all the noisy people anyway.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! That's a good one. And of course customers shouldn't ever be rude either. [Razz]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-11-2004, 08:13 PM:

Funny AND part of your job if you work for me. [Smile]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-11-2004, 08:15 PM:

But what if I am working for you and I go to close the door and as it is closing someone comes racing through it and bashes the door against my head? Should I sue?

Doors are clearly too dangerous to be in a theater.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-11-2004, 08:18 PM:

Of course not. That'd be a workplace injury and you'd have to claim workers' comp.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-11-2004, 08:54 PM:

But think of all those minimum wage minutes you save in a large 'plex. Sort of like the radio controlled electric shopping cart pushers seen in the parking lots of Wal-Marts. That saves at least one employee, yes?

More to the point out in the real world anytime you can use mechanical means to substitute for the sort of courtesy and showmanship that ought to be common sense and simple for people to do one might as well do it because if there is one thing the "service economy" lacks it's good service.

Those things are rather pricey. My good idea would have remained an idea not worth the cost had I not had a whim to look at eBay and found a fellow who had them new-in-box for a fraction of the Grainger price. That was a couple years ago.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-11-2004, 10:17 PM:

I've been to several "automated theaters" that have self-closing doors. I never thought it was a problem.

Biltmore Estate in North Carolina has two automated theaters. One is in the Welcome Center where people buy their tickets and find out about the history of the estate before they start their tours of the grounds. The second is in the Winery where people can see the P.R. video about what makes Bitlmore wine so special.

There's at least one automated theater at the World of Coca Cola Museum in Atlanta, GA. You get to see video about a lot of perky-looking people from all over the world who drink Coke.

If you go to the Corning Glass Works Museum in Corning, NY they have an automated theater that shows you all about how glass is made.

There is also one at the Springfield Armory in Springfield, MA. Here you get to see a video about the history of the armory from the days of Post-Revolutionary America through the present. This one is notable because it has a green LED display at the bottom of the screen which plays Open Captions of the words and action on the screen.

In every case, there is an electronic countdown timer above the door that shows how long before the next show is going to start. About 10 seconds before the show begins, a chime sounds, the lights dim and the doors slowly close. It takes at least 10 seconds for them to close. When the show is over, the lights come up, the doors open and people exit. The one in Springfield is the only one I've seen that's not on a timer. The show is started by the Park Ranger. It also has a "mushroom" panic button just inside the door. Since I had no reason to panic when I was there I don't know what it really does but I assume that it stops the show, brings the lights up to full and opens the doors.

The theater in Corning sucks because it has a backwards aspect ratio screen... 3:4 for video instead of the usual 4:3. The image is produced to fit the screen, I assume, so there's no cropping. It ALSO sucks because it's a roll-up screen that covers a 12 foot wide glass wall which looks out into the bright sunlit lobby. Before the movie starts, the screen rolls down (motorized, I assume) to cover the picture window. At the end of the movie, the music ends and WOOSH!! The screen rolls up to reveal a blinding light from the lobby! Talk about a "Blow-Off"!!

Not one of these theaters made me think about the possiblity of a customer walking into a moving door. I just assumed that even your average idiot knows (or should know) not to walk into a door. Like I said, the doors take at least 10-15 seconds to close. No, I never timed them! [Wink]

I do agree, however, that a door that closed too fast could cause a problem.