This is topic Brand or Type of Audio Rack to Use? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 09-24-2004, 06:41 AM:
 
I am in the process of getting equipment together for my home screening room and was wondering what type of audio rack I should buy. I have a Dolby CP-200 and MPU and will have several amps too. I want to add Dolby digital and DTS. I am going to need a full-size cabinet I'm sure. I went on ebay under the computer section but I have no idea about this stuff. Should I get something with fans, a front door with smoked glass, no front door? Anything special that I need to know except that it should fit 19"? Thanks
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 09-24-2004, 09:58 AM:
 
If you like to dink around with/add stuff in the rack then get a fully open free standing rack. California Chassis makes some good racks like that for around the $120 price and they ship it knocked down for easy shipment. Atlas Soundolier and Bud both make excellent racks, but boy get out the wallet they are very expensive. Middle Atlantic makes ok racks, but also pricey. I've been very satisfied with the California Chassis racks and my local electronics jobber stocks their products.
 

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Posted by Ron Yost (Member # 1850) on 09-24-2004, 01:33 PM:
 
I agree with Ken about California Chassis. I have one of their 'wall racks' .. 1/2 height, and it came with the machine I bought.

There's another company making racks and a wide range of accessories for them. It's the Gruber company of Phoenix, Az. gruber.com They also sell many of their products on eBay under the name of dataonline. Their rack products are made here in the U.S., too .. not flimsy imported stuff from Asia, which you want to be careful of if you're out 'shopping' for racks.

I use a cinema processor feeding a consumer 6-channel amp. that obviously isn't rack-mountable. I needed a deep, vented rack shelf for it to live on. I ordered a Gruber vented steel cantilever shelf from them via eBay, and am extremely happy with it. It's nice, thick, powder-coated steel, and has served the purpose quite well. It's 'prettier' than the rack, tho. Was about $25, I believe. I have no experience with their other products, but I assume they're of equivalent quality.

Have fun in the Adventure of setting-up your REAL home theatre.

Ron Yost
 

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Posted by Jason M Miller (Member # 2597) on 09-24-2004, 02:12 PM:
 
You can always make your own, you can get the pre-drilled rack brackets probably from your local profesional audio store... This way you can build it to your specs. For multiple plugs I like to use a Power conditioner.. I like the Furman ones (Furman Sound) For fans you could use computer fans, you will need a power convertor to go from 120v to 12v(you may be able to use an old computer power supply) Also make sure you know how many units your rack needs to be, most amps take about 2-4 units. And just use some two by fours and I like counter tops for a smaller rack(it looks nice).

I will see if I can draw up a diagram on how to build this, It will be placed here when done. Have fun
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 09-24-2004, 02:13 PM:
 
Thanks guys. I will check out those manufacturers.

One more quick question. It is a stupid question but I guess I should know it before I buy a rack. I have seen the terms bi-amped and tri-amped thrown around a lot. What does this mean? Does this mean that each channel has 2-3 amps on it for back-up? Just wondering what it means and if I should account for more space in the rack or if I would even need to do such a thing for just a home theater system.

Josh
 

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Posted by Ron Yost (Member # 1850) on 09-24-2004, 02:28 PM:
 
I have a Furman conditioner, too. The one I have (RP-8L) has two very handy (in a dimly-lit little booth) rotatable/dimmable lights on the front panel, and eight AC outlets on the rear, all switched from the front. Works very well for me.

Ron Yost
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 09-24-2004, 03:44 PM:
 
If you would like a bit more integration with your home than just a computer grade 19" rack standing in the corner, then take a look at http://www.avrak.com

No affiliation blah blah blah...
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-24-2004, 06:39 PM:
 
Lowell In St Louis makes any number of rack from open frame to knock down one that can be shipped by UPS. Prices are pretty good. I use a lot of product from here.

They are on the web.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-24-2004, 10:26 PM:
 
I preferre Hammond Racks there knock down RKF serries is very nice and economical
In some locations one needs to be aware that open framed racks are technically ilegal due to exposed speaker terminals on amps that in larger sizes has a potential to exceed class B standards
 

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Posted by Nicholas Suchyta (Member # 2050) on 09-24-2004, 11:51 PM:
 
I use a lot of Middle Atlantic's WRK series, they ship knocked down and everything fits together without major flaws. Most of the Atlas racks don't always fit together just right.
 

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Posted by Bill Mantz (Member # 754) on 09-25-2004, 12:09 AM:
 
Were could someone find good used sound racks like
Middle Atlantic Racks besides ebay. I would like to purchase a rack too but don't want to pay for a new one.
 

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Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 09-25-2004, 12:54 AM:
 
I've got a Mid-Atlantic wall mount rack at the drive-in we bought last fall. Good sturdy rack, kind of pricey, but it's what I wanted, and it was exactly the right size for the amount of equipment I needed to install.

I've got a photo of it on our website, but it's too large to post on Film-Tech.

Here's a link to the photo HERE

I've got one of those Furman Power Conditioners in the top that Ron spoke of above. I like the cabinet, because it's deep enough to put in my equipment, plus I've got the power supply for my LED reverse scan reader tucked in there as well.

I bought my rack on-line @ R.S. Engineering & Manufacturing

quote: Joshua Waaland

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I have seen the terms bi-amped and tri-amped thrown around a lot. What does this mean?

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When I worked as a Mobile DJ, I got into alot of the bi-amped and tri-amped configurations. When I used to bi-amp my system, I had two separate dual channel power amps. Amp #1 got the "high-end feed" from the cross-over and that amp alone powered ONLY the horn drivers in the speaker cabinets. Amp #2 received "mid's and bass", and that amp fed the 15" drivers in the speaker cabinet. When tri-amped, we did the same thing, but brought in a third amp, added another speaker cabinet to the mix, and re-adjusted the outputs on the cross-overs. Amp #1 fed only the high end signals to the horns. Amp #2 fed only the mid's to the 15" drivers, and Amp #3 fed only the bass signals to a Cerwin Vega dual 18" subwoofer. I used a Crown Macro-Tech amp for the sub, as that was the only amp we could use that didn't clip out or overheat and shut down. Major "thump-age"!!
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 03-31-2005, 10:39 AM:
 
I was looking at the pics for the new Ames 12 theater on the homepage and their sound rack is exactly what I am looking for. Also the pics of the Macedonia 15 Cinemark in the pictures warehouse has the same cabinets I am looking for. Anyone got a make or part number I can go from to get pricing?
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-31-2005, 10:51 AM:
 

quote: Joshua Waaland

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One more quick question. It is a stupid question but I guess I should know it before I buy a rack. I have seen the terms bi-amped and tri-amped thrown around a lot. What does this mean? Does this mean that each channel has 2-3 amps on it for back-up? Just wondering what it means and if I should account for more space in the rack or if I would even need to do such a thing for just a home theater system.

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quote: Steve Guttag

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77-U

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77-U 42U is taller than I am. Did you mean 77 inch?
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-07-2005, 04:26 AM:
 
77u = 77 rack rack units
I like the Hammond racks the best
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-07-2005, 04:35 AM:
 
Are your 'U's smaller than ours are? Here, one 'U' is about 45mm, so a 77U rack would be nearly 3.5m high, that's nearly 13 feet.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-07-2005, 04:39 AM:
 
I believe one rack units is approx 1.75"
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-07-2005, 04:46 AM:
 
Still

1.75 inches works out at 44.45mm, that's pretty close to my figure. I've just checked my figures again, and 77 of those does come out to almost 13 feet. You don't have racks that high surely, do you?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 04-07-2005, 05:12 AM:
 
As Gordon mentioned, 1 RU is 1-3/4" high.

The "standard" rack is 40 RU which has 70" of usable rack space. "Tall/High" racks are 44 RU and have 77" of rack space.

I also agree with Stephen... get a taller rack than you need. You WILL add more toys.
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-07-2005, 05:29 AM:
 
77" sounds reasonable for a full-height rack; 77U would be bigger than anything I've ever seen, and taller than most rooms.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-07-2005, 09:13 AM:
 
OMG...yes change my Us to inches so all the 77U stuff should have read 77" and likewise 40U to 70" (rackable height, not overall).

I dislike 77" racks though I've used them and they tend to be the standard in A/V installations...70" fit through doors...if you need more space...gang'em.

What I don't understand is the mentality of using tiny floor standing racks (the ones that are about 3-4-feet tall or so. The cost difference between a short rack and a tall one are very small. About the shortest I use is a 35U (really U this time) unless it is wallmount or for another special purpose where the height of the rack is part of the criteria...especially on a roll-around rack.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-07-2005, 11:11 AM:
 
Even if you don't fill the rack, the taller ones get the most important components up to eye level. Much easier on the back, as you don't need to constantly bend over.

And point of keeping components a bit off the floor to keep them cleaner and away from being bumped or splashed by the cleaning crew is a good one.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-07-2005, 11:22 AM:
 
What Jason said about Chatsworth Racks goes for me too. They are the go-to supplier for data center racks. I've been very impressed with their stuff. They're not cheap, but they may be the best.

And yes, try not to put anything at floor level if you can. It's just inviting dirt to be sucked in as well as possible damage from being bumped while cleaning the floor.
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 04-08-2005, 08:26 PM:
 
My basement ceiling is 84" high. Giving myself enough room to still be able to tip the cabinet back upright once I get it down the stairs only leaves me with about 77-78" to work with. That will get me about a 42U or so. I may still have to get a small wall mount rack for the amps though.

I figure on having a Furman power conditioner, SDDS, DTS-6, several amps, DVD player, THX 3417 monitor, Kelmar exciter supply, Dolby CP-200 or 500 and a DA-20 depending on which processor I get plus Accessory Unit. That doesn't leave me much room especially if I get a CP-200 in there.

Tight booth so like I said I may need the wall mount for the amps. Would really like to get some kind of part number on those ones I referenced in the pictures though. Most on ebay are way too deep for my application. Most Server racks are 36" deep. Don't have that much space. I figure 24" max depth.
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 04-11-2005, 04:33 AM:
 
I find wall mount racks aggravating to work with.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-11-2005, 07:02 AM:
 
You should go with two racks!! One for processing and one for the amps and x-over.

Actually Western Electric racks are the best. We have a heard of dogs that roam the country sniffing and scouring for them and hauling them back on dog sleds. Thats pretty much all we use at work .

MArk
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 03-02-2006, 07:25 PM:
 
I have been watching the Gruber racks on ebay that Ron eluded to. The one below is the model I think I want. Do you think an aluminum relay rack like this can handle the weight of the amps and processors cantilevered over to one side without bending? This will be much better for fitting into my tight space.


 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-03-2006, 01:59 PM:
 
1. Swing open wall racks are a pain!

2. Open frame racks like the one above are illegal in KY and in most East Coast Cites due to the "lack of enclosure" and the lack of UL. This probably does not matter to you in your home, but it makes it difficult/impossible to get an occupancy certificate in a commercial theatre.

I use Mid Atlantic racks; buy in large quantities and get the configuration (and holes drilled) that I need, even thought the rack is not-quite-standard. (UL approved, too.) Louis
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-03-2006, 09:19 PM:
 
I had one client that complained about enclosed racks being too costly until his insurance guy showed that his liability premiums made up the cost difference in short order. 95% of our rack projects have been enclosed. Raxxess, Middle Atlantic and Lowell have niches they fill well. Yes wall racks are a pain...usually they are on a government job...and usually the mounting wall has to be reinforced with plywood or steel runners
The most unique rack orders we built for a client was a two section enclosed rack system that stacked on top of each other to create a system...broke down and disconnected in about a minute with each section on wheels to be rolled in a closet for night time security One 44 unit rack for a 1500 seat cinema in Mexico with amplifiers in front and back + additional forced cooling...the ground strap for the building was clamped to a piece of rebar on the cinema roof....maybe a combination ground and lightening rod
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 03-03-2006, 10:05 PM:
 
Are the chances of fire from the equipment really that likely though in my home? I will always be near the equipment when it is running. My main concern is will the base hold that much weight in a cantilever position. Most of the equipment is about 18" and less so it shouldn't hang over too much. What do you think?
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 03-04-2006, 01:27 AM:
 
Last summer I bought a black Gruber aluminum relay rack like the one shown above to hold a CP55, a Sony DFP-D2000 SDDS decoder, a monitor system, mixer, and, of all things, a Strong CNA-100 and a 16x16x4 junction box to house the console relay board. For the most part it serves its purpose well. The only deep and heavy component bolted to it is the SDDS box mounted a little more than half-way up; nonetheless, the rack is stable and easy to move. (I still need to strap it down so it doesn't topple in an earthquake, though.)

The big problem with an aluminum rack is that the threads strip too easily. I found this out the hard way (set the screwdriving clutch on my drill a little too high while mounting the components) and had to resort to nuts on the inside of the rails to solidly tighten the screws (especially the screws holding the SDDS box in place). The nuts work well, but were a pain to install. For that reason, I'm not certain an aluminum relay rack is the best choice for amplifiers. YMMV, of course...
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 03-04-2006, 07:45 AM:
 
Jon,

Thanks for the info. I have a lot of the same equipment to mount.

I bought a short wall mount rack to put my two CNA-100's in. However I only have 1 of 2 of the relay boards required for each unit that control the automation functions. If you come across any please let me know. Thanks.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-04-2006, 09:36 AM:
 
At home I use a "minimalist" rack on wheels from Mid Atlantic, just tapped angles with a top & bottom plate. Probably only weighs 25 pounds and is all steel. I have 6 60lb. Ashly amplifiers in the bottom. (It won't fall over.)

Decorative wood panels on the end which lift off for work; open back. Louis
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-04-2006, 11:42 AM:
 
Sounds like a "Slim 50" with Oak Sides.

I too like Middle Atlantic Racks, including their wall mounts (DWR series). We sell mostly ERK series though.
 

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