quote: Chris Trainor

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Typicially 2000' reels have 5/8" shafts, and 6000' reels tend to mostly have 1/2" shafts... however I have a few 6000's that have 5/8"ths.

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5/8" shafts? them's some huge spindles!

Surely you mean 5/16"

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 10-03-2004, 09:53 PM:
 
Whoopps, yeah, 5/16" heh. Been workin with 5/8" screws all day building a rack for 2000' reels.. musta had them on the brain.

--Chris
 

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Posted by Cody Martin (Member # 2523) on 10-03-2004, 10:25 PM:
 
Thank you for your replies. I have someone who is willing to sell some 5/16" ones for 60 all together and just wanted to make sure it was worth it. I'm ready to get the bad boys and then find the 6000" reels.

Thanks again,
Cody
 

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Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 10-03-2004, 10:48 PM:
 
Sounds good. That's worth it. Plus with the 5/16" shafts you can always get slip-on adapters to put 1/2" shaft reels on. You can't do that the other way around.

--Chris
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 10-04-2004, 01:38 AM:
 
Be sure to get Kelmar 7000 or 8000 series arms. You can't do better than those
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-04-2004, 01:41 AM:
 
Do they actually hold the reel up better than others?

Also, FWIW, I haven't had any issues running 7000' reels on 5/16" hardened steel shafts. The real issue with the smaller (5/16" vs 1/2") shafts with 6000' or larger reels is that people tend to break the locking tab more often with a larger reel since it's heavier and obscures the shaft and tab more than a 2000' reel. Shorter people seem to break the upper shaft tab and taller people seem to break the lower shaft tab. Be careful and you'd won't have to worry about it. Use a stool if you have to.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-04-2004, 08:14 AM:
 
Actually, the best reel arm on the market today is the Ballantyne by far.

It is much more robust than Kelmar's. You also can interchange 5/16 and 1/2" spindles with them.

The Kelmar 8000 series reel arms are really too light weight for day-to-day changeover use.

As for spindle sizes...1/2" adapters over 5/16" are okay for occasional use but they will break on you since you still only have a 5/16" shaft for strength.

5/16" spindles with 6K reels will bend...it is just a matter of time. The reel spindle is unsupported on the operator side which gives the heavy reel too much leverage.

I generally run 1/2" on large reels and 5/16" on 2K reels for screening rooms and the like.

Steve
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 10-04-2004, 11:09 AM:
 
TECO also makes ok large reel arms. They call them 'Reel Brackets'. TECO's are length adjustable for those locations with restricted height/space in the booth. If I remember corrrectly I think the TECO's are priced less than everyone else, too.
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 10-04-2004, 01:44 PM:
 

quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea

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Do they actually hold the reel up better than others?

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No, but they have a better clutch design than some junky, rusty magazines some people are using IMO.

quote: Steve Guttag

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5/16" spindles with 6K reels will bend...it is just a matter of time. The reel spindle is unsupported on the operator side which gives the heavy reel too much leverage.

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Dunno about that. I run 6k at work and the small shafts of the kelmar8000 are not bent in any way.... arms have been in place for ages and are just fine.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-04-2004, 01:50 PM:
 
Ken, do the TECOs have various stop points for adjustment, or are they 100% adjustable? For example, if I wanted the arm to be 12.4 inches, can I do it?

I'm with Dan on the Kelmar arms. Never had any problem with them and the 5/16" shafts have never bent. I also prefer the 8000 series arms to minimize the amount of weight on the head. Must be some weird air up in DC.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-04-2004, 01:56 PM:
 
In what way are the Ballantyne arms better than the Kelmars? I've never seen them.

Most booths around here have the Kelmar arms (mostly series 7000) and they're fine. My only real complaint is for platter use, where the guidance rollers don't have enough clearance to run a 2000' reel without having to move the rollers aside.

I recently sold one set of Kelmars without guidance rollers and in good condition for $75, which I thought was a fair price. Check or post to the FS/Wanted forum and I'm sure that someone will have what you want.

If you are buying used house reels, it's generally easier to find 2000' reels with 5/16" shafts and 6000' reels with 1/2" shafts.
 

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 10-04-2004, 02:42 PM:
 
In case anyone's interested Surplus Sales of Nebraska www.surplussales.com, has some NOS Strong and Ballantyne stuff in their catalog including reel arms, a tube amp, Bodine motors, etc. You might want to check it out.
 

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Posted by Ron Yost (Member # 1850) on 10-04-2004, 03:04 PM:
 
I have no experience with Ballantyne arms either, but according to the price list at RSEM.com they're more than TWICE the cost of Kelmar arms. RSEM's price is around $400 for a set of Kelmar 7000's versus about $1000 for Ballantyne's.

Ron Yost
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 10-04-2004, 04:41 PM:
 

quote: Scott Norwood

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If you are buying used house reels, it's generally easier to find 2000' reels with 5/16" shafts and 6000' reels with 1/2" shafts.

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quote: Scott Norwood

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In what way are the Ballantyne arms better than the Kelmars? I've never seen them.

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I have several of these that whoever buys my Pro35 gets to have. You can't adjust their angle, yuck!

 

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Posted by Gordon Bachlund (Member # 124) on 10-04-2004, 06:25 PM:
 
Dan, 6k reels with 1/2" hubs seem to be the most common. I have a supply of them with 1/2" hubs, as well as a supply of them with 5/16" hubs, and these latter were much more difficult to find.
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-04-2004, 07:14 PM:
 

quote: Chris Trainor

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Typicially 2000' reels have 5/16" shafts, and 6000' reels tend to mostly have 1/2" shafts... however I have a few 6000's that have 5/16"ths.

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quote: Scott Norwood

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If you are buying used house reels, it's generally easier to find 2000' reels with 5/16" shafts and 6000' reels with 1/2" shafts.

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quote: Gordon Bachlund

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6k reels with 1/2" hubs seem to be the most common. I have a supply of them with 1/2" hubs, as well as a supply of them with 5/16" hubs, and these latter were much more difficult to find.

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The overwhelming majority of 6K's I've worked with have 5/16" shafts. I've only seen 2 or 3 with 1/2" shafts. Just my $.02, FWIF.

BTW, is TECO even still around?
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-04-2004, 09:32 PM:
 
Wow, $1000 for a set of Ballantyne reel arms? Those suckers had better have their own motors driving them for that price!

Anyone have a pic of them?
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 10-04-2004, 11:06 PM:
 
Yes, TECO is still around. They are listed in the latest Boxoffice Magazine Buyer's Guide issue.

Brad:

Yes they have one long ass slot to adjust the length of the arm. I think we've got a set of those arms running at Daryl Lund's Chehalis Theater. The Tom Moyer chain here in the Pacific Northwest had tons of these adjustable Teco reel arms (most had 1/2" shaft diameter). I bet Scott Hicks probably has a bunch in his Portland warehouse. I think there's an ad brochure with a picture of the Teco reel arms in the manuals section with the TECO film rewinder manuals.

[ 10-05-2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Ken Layton ]
 

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Posted by Ian Joseph Parfrey (Member # 2682) on 10-05-2004, 02:16 AM:
 
Would anyone know why Bauer, in their infinite wisdom would bring out a totally non-standard 9mm shaft with two drive dogs on their U3 & U4 projectors?
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-05-2004, 06:18 AM:
 

quote: Ian Joseph Parfrey

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Would anyone know why Bauer, in their infinite wisdom would bring out a totally non-standard 9mm shaft with two drive dogs on their U3 & U4 projectors?

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9mm shafts are quite common in mainland Europe, and on machines made there. I haven't seen a Bauer 35mm machine, so I don't know if they are using the standard 9mm ones, or something slightly different.

These are close in size, but not identical, to the 3/8" shafts which are common in Britain; a 3/8 spool will usually fit on a 9mm shaft, but is slightly loose. I've seen both of these sizes with one or two drive pins, (one is more common) but since all the 2k and 6k spools I've seen in these sizes have four holes, it makes no difference. I have seen a few large tower spools for 1/2" shafts, which have only three drive holes, at 120 degrees, and these would obviously not fit on a shaft with two drive pins, which some 1/2" rewinders have.

Kinoton list both American and European 1/2" shafts for their machines; I don't know what the difference is.

I know of at least nine different shaft types on 35mm:

5/16" with key
5/16" with drive pin (rare, only seen it on a few very old machines)
9mm with drive pin
3/8" with drive pin
1/2" with one drive pin
1/2" with two drive pins

With 1/2" the difference does matter, because of the three hole tower spools.

Some machines have their own, non-standard shafts:

Fedi machine with very large spools mounted on the base. about 1"
GBN portable. 1/2" with smaller, closer, drive pin, like 3/8"
BTH Mk.1 SUPA. Weird, never seen anything else like it.

There is also 5/16" with square one end, like 16mm, not normally used for motion picture film, but is used for things like document microfilm,and so might be used on some types of equipment, like a film cleaning machine for example.

One reason I prefer to receive film on cores, at least they seem to be standard worldwide, even the very old wooden ones.

There are some spools which have a removable centre which can be swapped for running on different machines.

Most British cinemas probably couldn't handle a 5/16" American shipping reel, as they don't use anything that size.
 

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Posted by Cody Martin (Member # 2523) on 10-05-2004, 06:31 AM:
 
Hello-

Thank you again for all of your posts. The 6000' reel arms i'm going to purchase have 1/2" shaft holes. Thank you all again for your help. I appreciate it a lot.

Thanks,
Cody
 

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Posted by Don Furr (Member # 1469) on 10-05-2004, 07:25 AM:
 
Seems to me most of the 1/2" 6000' reels came as the result of 35/70 booths. Since all 70mm have 1/2" centers, one size fit all. I even had a load of 2000' Goldberg house reels with 1/2" centers.

Don
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-05-2004, 08:40 AM:
 
All cores are standard eh? In Europe, some of the cores do NOT have the customary 1" hole (male or female) but instead have a 9mm hole with a drive-dog pin hole too. The trick is, how do you get the film off or on the core if you don't have 9mm spindles with plates? You can't use your trusty split reel since it needs the 1" hole to be there.

For reference, Kelmar does make 9mm spindles (green bases)for their rewinder so you can often get your 9mm origin reels to domestic reels...unless they are of the core variety and Kinoton fully supports 9mm spindles too (as I would suspect all Euro-origin equipment).

As to the Ballantyne reel-arms...they articulate now though the non-articulated ones were more rigid.

While I must agree that $1K is a bit pricey for what they are (compared to the price of reels today they are a bargin) they are substaintially better than Kelmars in their construction, stability, and quality of clutch.

Pictures of Strong accessories

Steve
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-05-2004, 08:48 AM:
 
Cores are specified by standard SMPTE 37M. The inside diameter of the hub (Dimension C) is specified as 25.70 millimeters (+0.40, -0.00) or 1.012 inches (+ 0.016, -0.000).
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-05-2004, 10:09 AM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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All cores are standard eh? In Europe, some of the cores do NOT have the customary 1" hole (male or female) but instead have a 9mm hole with a drive-dog pin hole too.

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I've never seen cores like that, and I've run a lot of prints that have been brought in from strange places. Do you know who uses them?

The Phoenix Cinema, East Finchley has three hand rewind benches, a 9mm or 3/8" one for projector spools mainly used for adverts and trailers, a 1/2" one for 6k spools, used for making up prints for transfer to tower spools, and a 5/16" one for 16mm, not much used now, but can also be used with a plate to spool off a 35mm print from American transit reels onto cores, from which they can then be put on one of the other benches to be spooled up.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-05-2004, 04:48 PM:
 
Nope...I've got no idea where they originated from...they just showed up one day at the AFI/Silver and the guys had a hard time explaining to me why they couldn't just use their split reels to unmount the cores (I had never seen the little buggers either).

They now have plates with 9mm spindles to deal with such things. Just when you thought you've seen most everything...something else crops up.

Steve
 

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Posted by Don Furr (Member # 1469) on 06-23-2005, 12:44 PM:
 
Post removed due to failure to follow the site policies on posting email addresses as detailed on the FAQ page.

[ 06-23-2005, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Brad Miller ]
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 06-23-2005, 05:05 PM:
 
The standard flip latches on 5/16 shafts aren't even close to keeping a 6000' reel on, especially if the hole is worn and a little wobbly. Try slipping a 3/8 keyless drill chuck on the shaft over the flip latch and snugging it. The cheapo chucks available from Harbor Freight for around $7.00 work well, I've been using them for 2 years. If the shaft is a little long you might have to drill out the threaded hole in the chuck where it normally would screw onto the drill shaft.

As for bushings to adapt 1/2 to 5/16, drill a 5/16 hole thru a 3/8" rod, using a lathe for a more steady cut, then cut the o.d. down to a size that will firmly press into t he hole, clean all the residual oil and gunk out and apply epoxy and insert it. I made some of these a good while ago and they have performed well. Oh yeah, cut the key slot in the ends of the bushing at some point before the epoxy.
 

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Posted by Don Furr (Member # 1469) on 06-23-2005, 09:27 PM:
 
Thanks for the ideas. I was thinking I had seen slip-on adapters years ago that would convert the 1/2" shaft to 5/16.
I either had too many drinks or saw 'em in a dream.

Brad: Sorry about the email address. I guess I'm so use to posting it on another web site I simply forgot. Of course it doesn't help when you get old!!
 

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