This is topic Lamphouse Spot-the-Difference game! (With pics!) in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Dan Bouvier (Member # 2655) on 10-05-2004, 04:38 AM:
 
Come on, this'll be fun.
Here we have a run-of-the-mill Super Lume-X:


And here, a slightly modified one after a day of mayhem:


What's been done to this one? The duct tape and the word "MASTER" don't count.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-05-2004, 05:09 AM:
 
I don't know Dan, but I don't see much improvement...the cathode seems darkened and the reflector and lamp seem to be completely out of alignment and it loos like the anode lead is just waiting there to short to the lamphouse.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-05-2004, 08:17 AM:
 
You used a different (longer) lamp. And why did you remove the douser? It looks like it hit the end of the longer lamp. The lamp is obviously tilted upward, so alignment is likely quite wrong. You also need to address the positioning of that longer anode lead, or sparks will fly!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-05-2004, 08:19 AM:
 
The front bulb support is way out of alignment and the positive cable is going to blow a hole in the bottom of the housing when you turn it on because its touching ground. The lamp is in the wrong position and the cone of light will be out of focus. You haven't oiled either lamphouse blower....., nor cleaned the squirrel cages in them..... ever. The main problem is that its a Strong and not a Christie SLC!

Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 10-05-2004, 09:40 AM:
 
The front yoke support is out of position. The rear collet is apparently melted.
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 10-05-2004, 09:54 AM:
 
I guess nods to impending destruction are fun... If you don't have any other work to do
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 10-05-2004, 09:59 AM:
 
Bulb also looks like larger than the recommended 2500 watt limit for the super Lumex set up.....I have seen like this in my travels, especially when the customer claims poor light and short bulb life.
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 10-05-2004, 11:28 AM:
 
Number 2 frightens me...
Even though the pro-35 has a massive changeover douser; I'd never want to be without the hand one in the lamphouse.
 

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Posted by Cam Jones (Member # 2684) on 10-05-2004, 01:29 PM:
 
The yoke appears to be made out of a coat hangar in the second picture... I hope it holds!
 

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Posted by Ian Joseph Parfrey (Member # 2682) on 10-05-2004, 04:14 PM:
 
Sack the idiot that came up with this and hit 'em with repair costs..... and ban him ( or her ) for life from the projection room.

How is the rectifier holding up?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-05-2004, 11:20 PM:
 
Oops I forgot! They have different serial numbers.

Mark
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 10-05-2004, 11:48 PM:
 
Considering what that lamphouse looks like, I can only imagine what kind of image those Ballantynes are producing.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-05-2004, 11:52 PM:
 
I had to replace the rear collet in a Super Lume-X recently. It only took the dealer I ordered the part from two attempts to ship me the right part, even with me giving them the part number from the manual.
 

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Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 10-06-2004, 12:55 AM:
 
...and what's with the extra wires just chilling in there?
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 10-06-2004, 02:53 AM:
 

quote:

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And here, a slightly modified one after a day of mayhem... What's been done to this one?

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So Dan, please tell us more. We wait for the "official" answers to the question you asked.
We need to find out the answers to our thoughts of "what the fuck?", "Who did that?", and "WHY?!?"

danny
 

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Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 10-06-2004, 12:05 PM:
 
Perhaps were not getting the answers because yesterday night he casuly leaned against the lamphouse...

and now they're trying to scrape what's left of his melted shoes from the booth floor.
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 10-06-2004, 01:06 PM:
 
Mike, You're just terrible! But I'm still laughing!

danny
 

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Posted by Dan Bouvier (Member # 2655) on 10-06-2004, 03:19 PM:
 

quote: Mike Olpin

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and now they're trying to scrape what's left of his melted shoes from the booth floor.

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• Douser removed to clear lamp.
• A coat hanger (yes, a coat hanger) is used instead of the yoke. The yoke held the anode too low so on the advice of our tech, a coat hanger was used.
• The rectangular block that the yoke sits in was rotated 180 degrees when it was thought that the yoke might work, but was too far back.
• Anode cable from previous lamp screwed into cathode...
• ...because the terminal running to the igniter had to be removed. The cathode end on the 2500 watt was too big.
• Spare collet end enlarged to accept larger cathode end.
• Pipe clamp used to hold cathode to colllet. Note that two small pipe clamps were used together because they didn't have any bigger ones in stock.
• Thumbscrews that held collet/focus assemby in place were removed. The lamp had to be moved back and the old thumbscrews wouldn't reach anymore. They were replaced with two random screws I found in the toolbox that just happened to have the right threads to fit. Then washers (for fixing seats) were added to move the assembly back. Wingnuts from a standee downstairs held it all together.

Who did that?
Me.
WHY?!?
A month ago I warn my boss that we're gonna need a new 2000 watt bulb. Last week, we still don't have the spare, and the lamp fails. Friday afternoon our new lamp arrives - but it's a 2500 watt. So, I could either cancel a weekend's worth of shows and explain to a bunch of pissed-off customers how we got a slightly wrong lamp, or I could throw something together and pray to the gods of Cinema for it to work. A phone call to our tech guy gave me some info, and off I went. It took FOREVER to do, seeing as how I had little to no idea what I was doing, and I ended up trying something, igniting the lamp, seeing that it's WAY too dim, shutting off the lamp, waiting 2 minutes, and then going back in to tweak. We took the pictures just to prove how absurd this place can get, and figured the guys on film-tech would get a laugh out of them.

The anode cable LOOKS like it's touching the lamphouse, but it's not. It was close, in the picture, before I rotated the lamp.
Yep, no douser. I taped up a sign that said "WARNING! HALF-ASS REPAIR JOB - NO DOUSER!" but it was mostly me that had to use the damn thing anyway.
It looks like there are extra wires just chilling but they're actually the same in both lamphouses, you just can't see them in the picture.
Lamp is rated at 83 amps, rectifier is putting out 80.

John noticed the new bulb and lack of douser. Mark caught the front yoke first. Ian suggested I be sacked. You all win passes to the "Theatre of Doom," send me your addresses and I'll mail them

Should I have just killed that auditorium for the weekend? I had no proper parts, per se, except a spare collet. What's standard operating procedure on emergency shoehorning a too-big lamp? And, though it probably doesn't need to be said, if anyone's curious we DO NOT have protective gear for handling xenons.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-06-2004, 03:33 PM:
 
Do you not have any other theatres within driving distance? If I'd been in that sort of situation, I'd be calling every theatre in the area, starting with the ones where I know the operators personally, asking to borrow a bulb. Surely it can't be all that difficult to find a theatre with an old 2kw bulb that's still good which they would be willing to loan for a weekend, right?

For that matter, why doesn't your theatre have a stash of high-hours-but-still-give-good-light bulbs in the back room somewhere?

Having said that and seen the pictures, I'm pretty impressed that the "modifications" worked at all. It's not the sort of thing that I would ever have attempted (though I've come close...I've had a few sound racks held together with alligator clips...at least I know that sound equipment won't kill me or burn the place down if mis-wired).
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-06-2004, 03:49 PM:
 
What a sad day this is for "True Professionals" and for "film done right."

NO wonder TV will take over in the theatres very soon.

A "good" theatre and/or tech would have had the CORRECT spare lamp ON SITE at ALL times.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 10-06-2004, 04:23 PM:
 
"We took the pictures just to prove how absurd this place can get, and figured the guys on film-tech would get a laugh out of them."

Part of me wants to give the poor guy some credit, for obviously trying very hard to save the weekend business. But, I just can't help being very disturbed by this.

I'm sure that we've all gotten through a show with the "zipper" blade held in place by a paperclip or some such thing, but as several others have pointed out, this was really dangerous.

I don't think we can blame Dan for not realizing how dangerous this was. He obviously doesn't. We should blame whomever left him there without that knowledge (and without protective gear). The "boss" chose not to order a spare, so the "boss" loses a weekend of business.

I think most of us here would go to incredible lengths when possible to save a show, but only up to the point where someone's safety is compromised.

Is there anybody in Calgary willing to go help this guy a little so he doesn't kill himself?
 

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Posted by Cam Jones (Member # 2684) on 10-06-2004, 04:57 PM:
 
I work at the same crazy theatre as Dan here, mainly as floor staff but I do have some projectionist duties.

I really tried to warn Dan on how dangerous it was, but he is really dedicated to the theatre, and luckily the hospital is right across the street.

You do have to give him some credit on what he's done here, and the screen looks suprisingly good with scope movies (so we have two scope shows running in that theatre for now).

Hopefully we can get a proper bulb in shortly and repair it to a safe condition! Maybe it would have been better to not fix it and let the owner deal with the lost income, one weekend of shows really isn't as important as Dan's life.
 

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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 10-06-2004, 05:09 PM:
 
Maybe one weekend of lost shows would help to kick the boss in the butt and have the right bulb on hand. You move prints around, and cancel the longest held, lowest grossing film you've got. Or better yet, alternate shows. The 2:00 of this show is cancelled, but will be showing at 5:00. The 5:00 of this other show is cancelled, but will show at 2:00. Maybe a thread should be started where we upload pictures, graphic bloody scorched pictures, of the dangers of this type of thing.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-06-2004, 05:17 PM:
 

quote: Adam Wilbert

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Maybe one weekend of lost shows would help to kick the boss in the butt and have the right bulb on hand.

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Exactly!

Plus if I, as a patron, would have know the risk of fire and death, I certainly would not have gone into that quagmire. By luck, nothing catastrophic happened thank the powers to be.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Dan Bouvier (Member # 2655) on 10-06-2004, 05:20 PM:
 
Man, you guys are vicious!

quote: Scott Norwood

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Do you not have any other theatres within driving distance? If I'd been in that sort of situation, I'd be calling every theatre in the area, starting with the ones where I know the operators personally, asking to borrow a bulb.

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quote: Scott Norwood

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For that matter, why doesn't your theatre have a stash of high-hours-but-still-give-good-light bulbs in the back room somewhere?

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quote: Phil Hill

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What a sad day this is for "True Professionals" and for "film done right."

NO wonder TV will take over in the theatres very soon.

A "good" theatre and/or tech would have had the CORRECT spare lamp ON SITE at ALL times.

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quote: Bill Carter

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Part of me wants to give the poor guy some credit, for obviously trying very hard to save the weekend business. But, I just can't help being very disturbed by this.

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quote: Dan Bouvier

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quote: Phil Hill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What a sad day this is for "True Professionals" and for "film done right."

NO wonder TV will take over in the theatres very soon.

A "good" theatre and/or tech would have had the CORRECT spare lamp ON SITE at ALL times.
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I'm sorry! But put yourself in the shoes of your average film-goer. If you go to the local theatre and your movie is cancelled, you'll get pissed off, go down to blockbuster, and maybe decide never to come back. But if the show runs (and maybe it's not 16 footlamberts, but it looked pretty good), you'll never know the difference. Maybe it's not a good theatre, I certainly don't conisder myself a good tech (or a tech at all for that matter) but the show went on, didn't it?

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quote: Dan Bouvier

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I have learned from this thread, and I learn something every time I'm on this site, thanks to you guys.

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Honestly, we are all good guys here...even me no matter what Brad, Josh, Manny, Joe, Paul, Scott, etc sez!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Dan Bouvier (Member # 2655) on 10-06-2004, 05:51 PM:
 

quote: Phil Hill

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Plus if I, as a patron, would have know the risk of fire and death, I certainly would not have gone into that quagmire. By luck, nothing catastrophic happened thank the powers to be.

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Was there that much of a risk to them? That would certainly change things. But if it was just a risk to me, then no, our patrons don't care.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-06-2004, 06:10 PM:
 
Hey Dan, we have all been there, done that....well maybe not exactly THAT, but there is this innate desire to live by the addage, The Show Must Go On. And as much as you are trying to solve a problem to keep this owner's theatre open (and hats off to you for an ingenious fix), in actuality you really ARE part of the problem. Why? Because you are the enabler in this disease called goddaweful theatre management. Fixing the immediate problem makes long-term, systemic Problem worse. It allows this horse's ass of a theatre owner to get away with being a cheap pile-o-shit who would run his theatre into the ground and endanger his staff rather than spend a penny on Film Done Right.

You said at least the audience can sit and watch the movie not even knowing what shenanagans went on in the booth to get the picture on the screen. Maybe. But at the same time, doing that allows the owner to go blithly about his business (his ill-run business), not knowing how the crap he's pulling seriously impacts the safety of his employees and the quality of the peresentation. And what you said is correct -- a number of patrons may get pissed and go to the competition and maybe even never come back. Well, GOOD! That's why it's call competition -- they are doing it better. Maybe that's what the jackass needs to have happen. His lack of attention to booth needs and what his employees have to do to "keep the show on the screen" has got to come back and bite him in the ass if it ever is going to get rectified. Tuff Cinema Love, my friend.

The fact that he doesn't have a freakin spare bulb in the booth is bad enough, but the fact that he lets a bulb burn so far past it's rated life that it comes out of the lamphouse black is a good indication that he's not paid for a thorough service visit for way longer than he should. It's indicative of a shoddy operation. The fact that he would allow someone who is not a technician to make this kind of "repair" and compromise his safety is an even better indication that he needs a serious wake-up call, say, like an inspector coming in, taking one look at that lamphouse and closing him down. And the fact that the booth doesn't have protective gear is the piece-de-resistance, enough to make me say he doesn't deserve to be open in the first place, the dedication of his loyal employees not withstanding. Which is a question in and of itself -- why are you loyal to an employer who obviously couldn't care less if you walk out of the booth one day with shards of quartz impaled in your eyeballs?

The fact that you choose to place yourself in harms way (no protective gear while changing a 4500w bulb....are in insane?) has no bearing on the fact that an employer should never, ever allow an employee to do dangerous things regardless of their willingness. Your disregard for saftey procedures doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to insure his that his employees follow proper safety protocols. A good employer would fire you on the spot for doing something that dangerous.

Dan, you have to resist the temptation to "fix it at any cost." Sometimes the smartest and most praiseworthy course of action is to step up to the plate and tell the SOB that he ordered the wrong part and the lamphouse will not work with it. Period. Not, gee boss, maybe I can get in there & fix it with a freakin coat hanger.
 

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Posted by Dan Bouvier (Member # 2655) on 10-06-2004, 07:21 PM:
 

quote: Frank Angel

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The fact that he doesn't have a freakin spare bulb in the booth is bad enough, but the fact that he lets a bulb burn so far past it's rated life that it comes out of the lamphouse black is a good indication that he's not paid for a thorough service visit for way longer than he should.

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Actually, the bulb didn't burn black because it ran too long. We have five screens, four of which are the 2kW lamps. Three of them were fine, whereas the fourth one turned black one day out of nowhere, with the same number of hours as the others. Then again, if we COULD burn a bulb till it was black, and still have enough light on the screen until then, we probably would.

quote: Frank Angel

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why are you loyal to an employer who obviously couldn't care less if you walk out of the booth one day with shards of quartz impaled in your eyeballs?

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quote: Frank Angel

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Dan, you have to resist the temptation to "fix it at any cost."

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quote: Gordon McLeod

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I would be very intrested to know who you "tech" is and your supplier, also the name of the theatre

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quote: http://www.dreamplex.ca/

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From all of us at Dreamplex Cinemas, we are committed to providing first class movie theatre entertainment within a state-of-the-art complex at discounted prices that everyone can afford!

** All Cinemas - Dolby SR Surround Sound **

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Mmmmm, OK. State of the art? What year is it? I really see the commitment too!

They've got a half assed DNS setup too.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-06-2004, 10:14 PM:
 
Remember, if a xenon lamp explodes without you wearing proper protective gear to handle it, it will be the LAST thing you ever see!
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-06-2004, 10:49 PM:
 
How does D-Cinema have the slightest bit to do with this? If he'd been rigging a bulb behind a DLP projector would you be saying this is another feather in film projection's cap?
 

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Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 10-06-2004, 11:13 PM:
 
Dan, I'm glad that you're taking all of this advise well and not getting annoyed! It really shows a willingness to learn on your part.. Plus you get SuperMegaBonusPlusClub points for trying to do right by the customers.

Anyhow, in regards to your lack of proper protection when changing a bulb, check to see what laws apply in your state. It seems to me that your employer asking you to perform a hazardous task without providing you with protective equipment is against some type of OSHA law.
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-06-2004, 11:25 PM:
 
Mike, how can I join this SuperMegaBonusPlusClub? Do I get extra points just for joining?

I don't think they have OSHA, or states, in Canada.
 

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Posted by Cam Jones (Member # 2684) on 10-06-2004, 11:25 PM:
 
Mike, your 100% correct this Canada province has laws in place that allow employees to reject any unsafe work, and it is the employers responsibility to provide all personal protective equipment (other then basic stuff like steel-toed-boots and hard hats) and training.

That being said, I will encourage Dan to refuse to change anymore bulbs before the proper safety equipment is received. What exactly is considered good PPE for handling bulbs? I assume a face mask and some heavy duty gloves but what else?

Knowing Dan's love of film I'm sure he'd rather die from a bulb explosion then of old age!

Edit: We do have the OHSA (Occupational health and saftey act)
 

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Posted by Dan Bouvier (Member # 2655) on 10-06-2004, 11:46 PM:
 

quote: Steve Kraus

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I think they're being too hard on you. Everyone has handled bulbs at some point without protection...

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quote: Steve Kraus

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But now you've used the 2.5kW bulb. How does that cost figure into the calculus?

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Ironically, my boss's other theatre uses the 2.5s, so he's gonna use it there.

quote: Gordon McLeod

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As an employee in Canada under the regulations regarting the CSA certification of equipment the person who knowingly or unknowling modifies or alters an approved electrical device is subject to prosicution and bears full liability if a mishap occurs

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quote: Manny Knowles

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1. Is it really worth it to go to the trouble of rigging that lamphouse, only to have to rebuild it when the correct bulb shows up?

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quote: Manny Knowles

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2. Theatre management will not learn from this incident. Instead of ensuring that spare lamps are in stock, they will likely become even less concerned with taking care of the booth and you'll be expected to fuck up another projector the next time around. (Meaning: You're part of this problem.)

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quote: Manny Knowles

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3. Phil is correct -- this episode is another feather in the cap of dCinema.

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quote:

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Repent, and sin no more!

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quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea

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Mmmmm, OK. State of the art? What year is it? I really see the commitment too!

They've got a half assed DNS setup too.

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quote: Mike Olpin

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Anyhow, in regards to your lack of proper protection when changing a bulb, check to see what laws apply in your state. It seems to me that your employer asking you to perform a hazardous task without providing you with protective equipment is against some type of OSHA law.

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It was my fault. I know that xenons can explode, kill me, etc, that if I mishandle them I put them at greater risk, etc. It's really not my boss's fault, and I didn't mean to give that impression. I'm an adult and am perfectly capable of saying "This is unsafe and I won't do it." Rather, I said, "This new Xenon won't fit, but I think I can get it to work." My fault.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-06-2004, 11:55 PM:
 
Not to harp at you or anything like that Dan, but your employer shares responsibility for you not using, or having, the proper safety equipment.

Your employer is required to make the proper safety equipment available and make sure you are trained in its proper use and enforce its use.

Also, just so you know, modifying any electrical device without approval by the electrical authority in your province can result in criminal charges in the event that it caused something bad to happen. Penalties could include imprisonment if it were to cause a fire and/or electrocution.

Now, for what it's worth, no one here is attempting to be hard on you, instead just educating you without sugar coating it. I assume that's what you came here for and what you started this thread for. Any really negative comments are directed at your employer, not you -- at least mine anyway.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-07-2004, 01:06 AM:
 
For the record, I have never handled or changed out a Xenon lamp without at least a facemask and gloves. Took a lot of shit for it too, from many of my former brother stagehand colleagues. Yeah, I'm a milquetoast with no balls.
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 10-07-2004, 01:42 AM:
 
neither have i. well actually, i'm not trained to change bulbs as that's our union guy's province. but i'm resolved never to do so in the future without the proper protective gear (which we don't have).

it's easy to be blase about safety issues like this. sometimes it takes a near miss to drive home the point. i nearly put an eye out using a table saw once. now i always use goggles. and i have probably been spared serious injury by using a bike helmet.

carl
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-07-2004, 03:15 AM:
 
I've seen worse by people who should have known much better. And like those cases, if it burned up it would be the best thing that happened to it.

I'll go with a grudging admiration that you got the problem of running a movie solved while not being educated as a tech, a disgusted understanding of the position you were in, a wish that it had nver been done, & a loathing of an employment situation that would have brought it about.

I'm in the camp of thinking the worst here after the deadly aspect it is an employer who would 1) suggest it, 2) allow it, 3) not provide essential safety gear, 4) not have a spare bulb, 5) not have educated employees about these type of technical issues, 6) would not have had their tech take care of the problem, 7) would put employees in a position of feeling compelled to do something like that, 8) expose employees to such incredible danger.
 

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Posted by Dan Bouvier (Member # 2655) on 10-07-2004, 04:19 AM:
 

quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea

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Now, for what it's worth, no one here is attempting to be hard on you, instead just educating you without sugar coating it. I assume that's what you came here for and what you started this thread for. Any really negative comments are directed at your employer, not you -- at least mine anyway.

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quote: William Hooper

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I'm in the camp of thinking the worst here after the deadly aspect it is an employer who would 1) suggest it, 2) allow it, 3) not provide essential safety gear, 4) not have a spare bulb, 5) not have educated employees about these type of technical issues, 6) would not have had their tech take care of the problem, 7) would put employees in a position of feeling compelled to do something like that, 8) expose employees to such incredible danger.

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My boss didn't suggest it - I did. He didn't really know about it either. And we don't have a tech, per se. He works for a Canada-wide projection company. I just called him because I wasn't sure who else to talk to.

If we can lay to rest the safety issue, or just let it take a nap for this thread's sake, I'd like to ask again:
What can I do for improvised safety gear? Would work gloves, a CSA-approved face shield, and a big heavy jacket from the Sally Ann do the job? Yes, I could get in my boss's face and demand that he buys new gear, or I could scrounge whatever I could behind his back, which IMO would be easier.
What are the technical issues with running the lamphouse setup in the picture? Assuming the rectifier is putting out the correct amperage, will a "stock" Super Lume-X run an LTI 2500W lamp with no problems? Is the metal in a coat hanger really strong enough to be in a lamphouse? What about cooling, as I asked before? And what about the lack of douser? In an emergency, is it not enough to close the changeover or power down the lamp?
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-07-2004, 07:46 AM:
 
For the record, the Super-Trooper spotlight uses the LUME-X lamphouse, not the Super Lume-X...there is a significant size difference there. The Lume-X optimally runs on 1.6K or less but is indeed rated to 2K. Remember too that on a spot light...little to no cooling is offered...just the intake blower....most just use the dome over the exhaust stack. Also remember that the lamp is mounted in reverse (anode to the rear) which often places the envelope very nearly plugging the reflector's center hole.

In short, you can compare apples to oranges even if they are made by the same company.

As to this modification...the theatre should not have run...the mods were extremely dangerous to the equipment, and the "tech." The fault was with management and it should ahve stayed there. If they choose to not have spare lamps (and apparantly there are several screens in this location with the same lamp size) that is their business choice. Placing yourself in harm's way to overcome incompetence is foolhardy. In fact, you even mention that you didn't know what you were doing...yet another strike.

Remember, this is just a discount movie theatre, not some sort of life-support system that is essential. Perhaps if the owner losst business as a result of the lost shows (even long-term) then he would learn to properly stock the theatre...or smarter businesses would gain patronage for properly running their theatres. All you did was to facilitate and idiot in their ways and placed yourself in harms way doing it. As to running a platter by hand...how does that place yourself in harm's way? At most you would need to do it for one show since even if a motor burned out...you probably have a spare deck to use on the next show...even if you have to move a print to get to it.

Steve
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-07-2004, 10:18 AM:
 
We all agree that the bulb handling without suitable protection was dangerous, particularly as this wasn't a simple change-out but probably required lots of trial and error fitting. And extremely dangerous if there was any open-door running to get it aligned. Beyond that it seems like it would be just an equipment risk or am I missing something? How often are bulb explosions uncontained?

I also don't think the implied threat, which hopefully was unintentional, to sic the authorities on him or his employer is particularly conducive to the free exchange of information here. If we make people regret fessing up to what they did a lot less learning is going to take place and that won't help safety; it will hurt it.
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-07-2004, 11:31 AM:
 
Dan, I am very concerned about your lack of safety equipment. Is changing, or otherwise handling, xenon lamps, with the lamphouse open part of your job? If it is not; if you have been told that you should not do this, and that some other person will do it, then that would explain the lack of equipment. If this is not the case, and you are expected to handle lamps, then the appropriate safety equipment should be provided for your use.

If the equipment has not been provided due to cost, then that is ridiculous, it would be far cheaper than the fine for having an employee seriously injured in an industrial accident. If your employer has such low regard for your wellbeing, then maybe it is time to look for a new job.

Does your employer have any technical knowledge? Is he aware that the are hazards associated with xenon lamps, or does he just think that they're like domestic light bulbs, but brighter? If this is the case, then you need to speak to him, urgently. If he were to order the stuff today you could have it by the weekend.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-07-2004, 01:51 PM:
 
I stand corrected. Thanks Steve.

I see that the Super Lume-X is rated to 2.5K, so the heat load of Dan's temporary fix may not be a factor assuming good lamp focus. As to Dan's question about cooling, I've seen people mount squirrel cage blowers on the exhaust to draw more air through the lamphouse. There's been quite a few posts on this forum over the years about lamp cooling and minimum required air flows (a search is suggested).

As to safety gear, there are minimum specs published on-line for it (again, a search is suggested). I've always worn a full face shield (looks like a flip-up welder's mask but it's made of clear plastic), clean leather gloves, and an old jacket (something I wouldn't mind getting peppered with quartz shards). I've been lucky in that I've never had a bulb go off while I was exposed to it. But I have had three go off on me while they were burning: a 2K inside a Super Trouper, a 7K inside an Ultra 80, and a 15K inside an Omnimax lamphouse. And I was standing right next to my buddy Dave when he had a 5K go off inside its box just as he was opening it for an install. The shards were contained each time, but I'd hate to see what someone's unprotected face would look like after an uncontained kaboom.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 10-07-2004, 02:54 PM:
 
I'm certainly not an expert on the safety equipment, but if you're going to do it anyway, improvised safety gear is far better than nothing.

With respect to full-face-shields, please remember that many of them (most?) require you to wear primary eye protection underneath them, i.e. safety glasses. This sort of stuff should be available at your local hardware store.

I don't know what you'd do to improvise gloves.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Cam Jones (Member # 2684) on 10-07-2004, 03:33 PM:
 
Duct tape gloves, now theres an idea!
 

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Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 10-07-2004, 03:51 PM:
 
Screw that "the show must go on" mentality! I once refused to run a show because the lamphouse exhaust motor had burned out.

My former employer has the creed:

"No job is so urgent, or service so essential, that we can't take the time to do our jobs safely."

...Never failed me...
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-07-2004, 03:52 PM:
 
Actually I think HM the Queen exempted all repairs involving coat hanger wire and/or duct tape from safety regulations throughout the Commonwealth several years ago.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-07-2004, 07:18 PM:
 
Too bad Canada isn't part of the commonwealth!

Dan, the proper safety gear is actually pretty cheap. You're (well your employer) isn't going to save much by buying 'substitutes'.

A face sheild and leather gloves are a minimum. A leather smock would be good to. You can find the leather stuff at any welding supply house, the face sheild you can probably get at Crappy Tire. You can probably get the leather gloves there too.

quote: Dan Bouvier

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But I must aver, our website's DNS setup has little or nothing to do with me. That's just nitpicking.

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quote: Paul Mayer

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A stock Super Lume-X runs too hot as it is with a 2k in it IMHO, even though the lamphouse is rated for it (I say this based on my experience with them on the back of Super Trouper spotlights).

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In fact if a Super Lum-Ex does run very hot there is simply not enough air volume being pumped through the lamphouse. A properly spec'd blower will take care of that and allow the lamphouse to run relatively cool and you'll get great lamp life... but its not a Christie SLC or even a Big Sky for that matter.

As for the Super Trooper... its definately not what its name implies thats for sure! Its really a genuine piece of American made crap. Super it is not... unreliable it is and its more like a sitting time bomb when it is equipped with a 2kw lamp. Even the 1.6 kw lamp runs way too hot and any lamp you use in it will normally have a very short life span. The Lum-EX has very little air flow through put capability because of its small internal volume. Its tiny little internal seal blower... which can barely be regarded as a blower for that purpose at all is expected to cool in most situations the heat generated by a 2KW lamp. Yea right! All in all with the extensive expereince I've had with them they are in reality a dangerous piece of equipment that I refuse to ever operate or be associated with again!

The older arc Super Troopers were wonderful follow spots that had balance so well done that you could move the entire lamp around with just your finger tips. They also had very easy to operate controls and positive locking mechanisms and a very well designed and built stand. Strong has loused all that up in the VERY cheapened version of what they call a Super Trooper. I think Stupid Trooper would be a better name.

Mark
 

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Posted by Marc Hansen (Member # 705) on 10-07-2004, 08:27 PM:
 
NO excuse for lack of safety gear!! Full face shield, safety glasses, leather welding jacket, Kevlar cut proof gloves, less than $75!! In my other life I own a machine shop where refusal to use safety gear is cause for dismissal. It costs WAY less than the deductable for 1 ER trip.
 

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Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 10-07-2004, 10:03 PM:
 
Only in Canada! Looks like Red Green got a hold of that thing (including the use of duct tape)

Honestly, I would have been better to have lost shows, and taken the loss, than have the possible catastrophic results you may have had.
Sure we commend you on your desire to put the show on, but young Jedi, there is a time when you just have to say enough is enough.

Honestly I seriously question the ethics of the "tech" that advised you though this process, including the use of a wire hangar for the bulb support.
I'm sure everyone has had to go to some pretty great legnths to make sure that the show goes on, but at the same time, we've also had dark theaters as well.
Regarding the potential upset customers, there's little more you can do than letting them know that the project is broken, and that you are awaiting parts. Most can handle an honest answer like that.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-08-2004, 12:19 AM:
 
Sorry Mark, I didn't go back and correct that post. I meant "Lume-X" when my fingers typed "Super Lume-X." Those were the ones that seemed to always be too hot when they had 2Ks in them. I agree with you though, the carbon arc Supers were great lamps to run. Very smooth and very well balanced. I never liked the way the Xenons handled, even after I got used to them.
 

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Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 10-08-2004, 04:54 AM:
 
Daryl said

quote:

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Too bad Canada isn't part of the commonwealth!

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Did we give you permission to leave

Careful or we'll sell you more submarines
 

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Posted by Matthew Nock (Member # 1575) on 10-08-2004, 07:12 AM:
 
I know I am late coming in to respond to this - but I too have to agree with the majority of people here.

While the "fix" might seem ingenious, there would be a couple of issues here...

1) What sort of decent technician would even recommend doing such a thing??

2) Yes, the "Show must go on" but not at the expense of equipment, or personnel.

When ever I train new staff, I do inform them of the important of "The show Must Go On" but with conditions - ie: in short, if you are causing damage to equipment, or film, then stop - otherwise, use what ever methods within your power to keep the show on screen.

I agree that the shows for that weekend should have been cancelled - I have and will continue to do things like that before putting any equipment, or staff at risk. Being in the country, running a small theatre, sometimes its not always possible to have new lamps readily accessible, but we do have a stock of 'taken out cause they flicker a bit, or take a bit to strike' lamps that we would use as a temporary solution.

And I too would agree with the "contact a local cinema" - we have done that in the past... thats why its important to build good relationships with your competition.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-08-2004, 01:09 PM:
 

quote:

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Too bad Canada isn't part of the commonwealth!

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quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea

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...pleasure crafts...

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Oh My...that is soooo suggestive it makes my tongue hard.

However, it IS a sad day that all those poor guys are dying. In general, the subs reflect shitty engineering and are another example of why I would NEVER buy an European product.

(Sorry guys, just my personal opinion based on years of experience with your "stuff".)

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-09-2004, 12:02 AM:
 
I think I understand your "meaning" in doing this kind of repair and, though I think you were pretty sure of yourself when you did it, I must say that it probably wasn't the smartest thing to have done.

Okay, okay. You got the thing to work... Or to LOOK like it was working. Yes, you got light to come out of the thing but I'm worried about some other things besides the danger in running the lamp the way you did.

I really hope you didn't do lasting damage to the machine that won't make itself known to you until the lamphouse, the projector or the power supply have totally melted down at some time in the future, when you least expect it, nor can you afford it!

1) The obvious: While you were making these modifications, can you be sure that you didn't break anything? (Either while doing or UNdoing?)

2) The lamp you installed, being a higher wattage, probably ran hotter than the usual one. Can you be sure that there was no excess heat that caused damage?

3) Since the lamp was a different size than usual, I can't imagine HOW the thing would be in alignment/focus. Can you be sure you didn't "hot spot" the film and put burn marks on it? Can you be sure the projector's shutter, dowser, gate and/or lens(es) didn't suffer any heat damage? Do you have any idea how much those parts cost to replace? Hint: More money than you are likely to have in your bank account!

4) Since the lamp draws more power than the usual one, can you be sure the excess "draw" on the power supply didn't cause it to overheat? Diodes, capacitors and other parts of power supplies are famous for appearing to be okay on the outside but they are really damaged on the inside. That damage often doesn't show itself to you until later.

You really have to know where to look and what to look for in order to know if any of these things have gone wrong. Even an experienced person can overlook this kind of thing.

You really have to look out for old Murphy's Law! In a situation like yours, if there is any hidden damage (I fear there is) it won't make itself known to you until the worst possible moment. It'll be a busy Friday night when your projector will simply stop working... or worse... collapse into a shower of sparks and flame!

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I have never used "Yankee Engineering" to solve a problem but I will advise you that you need to learn when to quit. There are times when coat hangers and duct tape may be an appropriate way to make temporary repairs but there are also times when when you should just walk over to the fuse box, shut off the breakers and say, "Sorry folks, the show is over for tonight!"

All this is coming from a guy who, not too long ago, advised a member of this forum to consider making a repair with a piece of coat hanger wire!
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-09-2004, 09:03 AM:
 
Xenon bulbs don't draw current, they have current forced through them. There will be some variation caused by the particulars of the bulb, the internal pressure, gap length etc. but in general the P/S determines current and the ultimate power output of the bulb. This is not like replacing a 60W incandescent bulb with a 150W bulb!

Someone else will have to address the question of whether it's even possible to overload a P/S by cranking it up to its maximum output. I will guess no. Wide open should still be in the safe operating range (although there may be units where that is not true).

He said it was running at 80A. Depending on the voltage across the arc (probably in the low 20's) it's still only about 2000W. For example 80A x 24V = 1920W.

So what's the big deal?
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-09-2004, 12:14 PM:
 
Often if a larger lamp is installed the rectifier will attempt to deliver the increased current as older rectifers were a voltage source and the pressure of the gas and arc gap determined the current draw compared to voltage
Newer solid state rectifiers are often current regulated
The Superlumex with a 2.5K lamp is supposed to be a 2.5HS and fits without a change of the yoke (it drops to a lower point and the collet needs changeing depending on the previous lamp
the dowser doesn't need removing
From the picture it looks like this is a longer lamp probably a HVC and as such it has a larger envelop and I doubt sufficient air will move through the hole in the reflector to cool it properly
This is one reason that the spotlight versions don't have as good of lamp life because the lamp which is mounted in the opposite polarity anode at the back must be a lot farther into the reflector to bring the cathode tip to the focus of the reflector and the hole in the reflector doesn't have the volume of air moving through it to cool the seals
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-09-2004, 10:45 PM:
 
What % of rectifiers are even regulated? All switchers of course...how about conventional? (Sorry but "hi reactance" seems like a gilding-the-lilly term.)
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-09-2004, 11:19 PM:
 
There are no regulated straight high reactance rectifiers that I am aware of but they probably do exist in some form. I suppose the ORC 1000 would be considered a regulated unit and the model 1600 with its bank of germanium pass transistors definately was. Strong produced a regulated 2kw rectifier that was a dismal failure back in the late 70's early 80's.

The only other way to regulate a large rectifier would be with a main transformer that has a magnetically resonant primary but the output level would not be able to be varied. Magnetically resonant transformers are still pretty common and are primarily used as voltage regulating transformers in large computer systems to clean and control the incomming AC. The term high reactance refers to the design behavior of the main transformer, so its definately not just a "gilding the lilly" term. There are many rectifiers that are not of the high reactance type. The Irems and the Eprads are among them.

Mark
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-10-2004, 09:57 AM:
 
Irems are a saturable core style as are the Sanrex except they use a magnetic amplifier (allanson is as well)as are the miller rectifiers
As such they are a current device
 

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Posted by Cam Jones (Member # 2684) on 02-28-2005, 06:22 PM:
 
Looking back on this thread I notice the stupidity of this. I can now talk freely because I am no longer employed at this theatre and am no longer under the threat of loosing my job if I post here for any reason (as I was told by a certain person in management).

Dan had to do what he could to avoid cancelled shows, even if what he did wasn't quite safe. Unfortunately this kind of make-shift dangerous work has been done a lot there due to the over conservative policies on spending money. This place never has spare bulbs and replacements only get ordered after one dies, and one lamp is running over 1000 hours past the rated life, flickering and just waiting to explode.

Any ways, just though I'd make a little post here, since I am now free too!

Thanks for all your warnings and help.
 

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