Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Half width splices

This is topic Half width splices in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006631

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-09-2004, 06:14 PM:

I got a print of THE KING AND THE BIRD (Sony Classics) last week -- great animation feature. It had splices made with splicing tape that was about half the width of standard 4 sprocket width tape. In spite of this, the joins seemed perfectly strong; given the ole "pull-snap both ends of the film one either side of the splice and see if it comes apart" test, as unscientific as this is, still, it seemed to me to be every bit as solid as a full width splice. Made a loop with the film and it didn't fold a the splice but kept a nice loop right at the join. And especially that I was only going to run it this print three times, I saw no reason to remake them. They held up fine.

There certainly were some very positive advantages to this shorter splice -- when projecting 1.85, the tape does not intrude into the picture area at all. And unless I was imagining it, these splices were almost invisible on the screen in terms of any displacement disturbance, i.e., no shake or jitter as the splice runs through the gate. I assume this is simply a result of the smaller surface area of the tape which doesn't cause as much physical movement in the gate as it passes.

My question is, do you think these are as trustworth as a normal tape splice? I mean they certainly seemed totally reliable. Given the advantages I observed, I would be perfectly happy using this reduced size tape. I check the supply cabinet and dug up some Neumade 16mm splicing tape; I think this is the same size as I found on this print, so the stuff is readily available. A roll of the 16mm size can easily be put on the 35mm splicer to replace the standard width tape. But do I want start using this non-standard stuff? I am convinced it's perfectly acceptable, even desirable for my own private prints, but would it be wise to use it routinely in the booth on commercial prints? I mean, there seems to be only advantages and no disadvantages. Still, it's not an industry standard. But neither was yellow splicing tape and someone had to be the first guy to use it instead of clear tape (damn him).

Any thoughts?

BTW, am I correct in saying that there is no industry standard desiginating the width of the 35mm splicing tape?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-09-2004, 06:36 PM:

I have used IMAX 2 perf tape with no problems, and that is far from quality tape.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 10-10-2004, 01:24 AM:

i have a trailer with several "2-perf" splices, apparently made to change the title of the film (if you must know, some like it cold --> love on the run). it's run twice with no problems. whoever made the splices didn't have preserving the continuity as a high priority, so maybe i'll make some of my own to try out.

given the various qualities of splicing tape out there, i wouldn't be surprised if some work fine while others stretch very quickly.

i've been making 8-perf splices, which are totally invisible flat or scope, aside from jump. my feeling is that in scope the jump is barely noticeable, but flat a bit more so. certainly it was a bit annoying on the last flat film i built. perhaps 8-perf splices for scope and 2-perf for flat would give me the best of both worlds.

carl

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 10-11-2004, 05:58 PM:

I've got a Rivas-type (I think that's the term... in any case it uses preperforated tape) splicer for postproduction usage. It has an adjustable blade to allow for 8-perf, 4-perf, 2-perf, and even 1-perf splices. IIRC, tests I did showed even the 2- and 1-perf splices to be good for many passes through a Century JJ.

The downside is that preperforated tape is very expensive, even as quality has decreased. (Still, I guess if all you made were 1-perf splices, it might be economically feasible.)

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 10-12-2004, 07:26 AM:

I've seen 2-perf tape used over here, Frank, and no reported problems with it.

It's also been noted that if you apply it carefully it only obscures three data blocks on the Dolby Digital track, thus reducing reversions to SR.

AFAIK there are no industry standards re. tape width, and perhaps it would be dificult to proscribe one. BUT you could have a Recommended Practice - that might work better [Smile]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-12-2004, 10:38 AM:

quote: Brian Guckian
AFAIK there are no industry standards re. tape width, and perhaps it would be dificult to proscribe one. BUT you could have a Recommended Practice - that might work better

Splices are specified by SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 111-1999, which says:

quote:
3.7 The tape shall be wide enough to cover at least half a frame on each side of the splice.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 10-12-2004, 07:33 PM:

quote:
The tape shall be wide enough to cover at least half a frame on each side of the splice.

And on flat films, 2-perf tape just about does! [Razz]

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 10-12-2004, 08:22 PM:

I brought up a question about two-perf splices about a year ago...unlike Frank's experience, mine was not so positive. Suffice it to say I was not impressed, having had to remake a number of faulty two-perf splices for one presentation. Either Frank was lucky, or I was cursed. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-12-2004, 08:54 PM:

I would assume that the projector being used at the time as well as any stress put on the film by the transport would have the biggest effect. The 2 perf tape I used was with Simplex XL-type projectors and Christie platters through the platter array.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 10-14-2004, 06:43 AM:

John Pytlak said :

quote: John Pytlak
Splices are specified by SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 111-1999

I'd missed that [Embarrassed]

- thanks for putting me right!

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-14-2004, 09:34 AM:

In Post-Production we see and use 8 perf, 4 perf, 2 perf and those Inviso type splices. They work fine on most of the projectors in use. The only problem the editors have at theatres is the picture may jump more with different types of splices, but remember I'm talking about "Work Prints", not regular answer or release prints.

Yes, Gate tension is part of the problem. But work prints have many splices, ranging from a few frames to a few feet at different scene changes. So there will be some form of a jump on screen.

Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 10-14-2004, 09:52 AM:

On the Norelco's here, if the gate band tension is set right there is no jump when a splice goes through. Other than a sometimes visible line from the edge of the splicing tape on a bright scene, I find being careful not to get air bubbles under the tape a key to clean splices.
One exception to splices that jump, we sometime put an old cartoon in front of the feature and that splice has a rolling effect, the picture rolls up as the splice goes through. But that's because the cartoon has shrunk, usually a lot.

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 10-14-2004, 10:49 AM:

For years we used 35mm splicing tape , every once in a while a join would fail.

For the past 2 years we have been using 16mm tape without one join failing . 16mm tape makes breaking down prints alot easier as well.

Posted by Liam Utley (Member # 1931) on 10-14-2004, 12:19 PM:

We use 16mm tape... Never had a problem with it. It makes ad/trailer changes a whole lot easier as well, as the 16mm tape comes off easier than the 35mm, and doesn't leave as much residue.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-14-2004, 01:08 PM:

Guys, the width of the tape has nothing to do with the quality of the adhesive. For example, all widths of Neumade tape peel off without the slightest hint of residue. Cheap tape will leave a residue whether it is 2 perf, 4 perf, 5 perf or 8 perf...there will just be more or less to deal with.

Posted by Liam Utley (Member # 1931) on 10-14-2004, 10:27 PM:

FPC and Atlab 16mm tape seem to leave residue, I've also used Cinemeccanica 35mm tape which is terrible in terms of residue. Unfortunately I have no control over what tape we get, and I don't know of anyone locally that stocks Neumade. (not that I've looked into it)