Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Print Delivery Cut-Off Time for a Rental?

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-12-2004, 09:23 AM:

I just got word that my theater will be showing a movie for an outside organization. The details are complicated but essentially, it amounts to a rental.

I have a concern about print delivery since THEY will be supplying us with the print instead of using our usual channels.

Of course, I need time to get the print ready to show. I know how long it will take for ME to get the print ready. (Platter System) However, I want to tell the presenter that I need the print in my hands NO LATER THAN a certain time before the show.

Yes, yes... I know. In the film business, we regularly have to do things at the last second. My goal here is to prevent that last second situation by making it clear to the presenter(s) that, if they don't have the print(s) in my hands before a certain time, they jeopardize the quality of their performance/presenation.

My question is: Is there a customary cut-off time for print delivery in such a situation?

Certainly, in a professional/studio situation, the projectionist has to be ready to run any given reel of film at any moment but I am not in that situation.

I know that I am comfortably able to get a print out of the can, onto the platter and onto the screen in just a couple hours. However, I think I want to tell these people that I need the print in my hands NO LESS THAN 24 HOURS before showtime. If they want the print pre-screened the print will have to be in my hands no less than 48 hours prior. The same goes for trailers, previews, rolling stock ads, video media and music.

I want to tell them:

* If the print/media is in my hands 48 hours prior, they can have a pre-screening.

* If the print/media is in my hands 24 hours prior, the show will go normally without a pre-screening. (Barring any unforseen circumstances.)

* If the print/media is in my hands LESS THAN 24 hours prior, they'll get what I can give them.

* If the print/media is in my hands less than 3 hours prior, they seriously jeopardize their presentation.

Is this reasonable? Any thoughts, comments & ideas?

T.Y.F.Y.S. [Smile]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-12-2004, 10:33 AM:

The actual "deadlines" you give depend on your work schedule, but the ones you suggest seem reasonable. It really depends on "what else is on your plate" in terms of workload.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 10-12-2004, 12:12 PM:

Is this a new print or an old archival print? If it is an old print, it make take a lot of work to get it ready to run on a platter.

Do the renters know what 35mm is? I have seen rental people show up with 16mm or video and get a rude suprise that we don't have the equipment to run it. If they are clueless, just telling them 35mm may not be enough.

/Mitchell

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 10-12-2004, 01:07 PM:

You want to prepare for the worst, consider the time it will take to revise all the reels, especially if the film is on older stock and may be in rough shape. 24 hours ahead I think is more then reasonable.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-12-2004, 01:25 PM:

I don't know. Randy will most probably bootleg the print (since all projectionists do). As such, he shouldn't be allowed to touch it until 1 hour before the show. Plus he needs security guards harassing him and getting in his way the entire time, and the cans need to have a fake title printed on one side and the real title printed on the other side. No one ever thinks to look at the other side of the can. [Roll Eyes]

Randy, I always request 24 hour prior. That's enough time to do any repairs if needed and do a check screening. If they deliver "same day as show", I tell them if anything is wrong, no matter who's fault, tough. No refunds, no apologies, pay up, get out.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-12-2004, 01:33 PM:

Is this a normal film that the organiisation are hireing for the event, or is it something they have in their possesion, something from their archives, for example. If the latter take care, and get it in your hands as soon as possible; absolutely anything could turn up.

Do you know anything about the organisation? Do they know anything about film? If not, it might turn out to be 8mm, triacetate that's totally gone to vinegar, something so badly damaged that it will never go through a projector, two inch quad video tape, a 'borrowed' print of a feature that they have no right to be showing, if it's old it could even be nitrate. I've seen all of these things, and more, turn up for speciial events.

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 10-12-2004, 02:45 PM:

I used to run 'Bollywood' movies once a month... typicially the print would arrive about 45min before the patrons... I told them that if there are any problems it's not 'my' problem. [Wink]

We tossed it together, ran it, broke it down and sent them on their way.

The upside is that we never did actually have a problem. We did this monthly for about 2 years. The last 6 months was nice because they just sent us the built-up copy of the print, no make-up/break down needed. Just tossed it on the platter.

--Chris

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-12-2004, 08:50 PM:

The whole story:

There is a local group who calls themselves a "Film Association". They have a "film festival" every year but it's really a "video festival". They rent a hall somewhere, set up a video projector and a player then put on their little festival. I've never been to one of their events but I understand it's pretty nice for what they are doing.

Mostly, they show stuff from ameteur film makers, underground stuff and a few small-distribution independants. They've been doing this for about three years, now. Well, THIS time they booked an independant title but neglected to notice that the film is really on FILM!

The title they chose is one that (I'm told) has been getting some notice on the REAL festival circuit. It's pretty much a coup that they could even book it. BUT... they don't have a projector to play it on. They tried calling the local commercial theaters but as you can guess, the only way they could get one of those places is to buy out a house for one or more shows. (Not counting "special discounts".) No matter how you slice it, that route would be WAY too expensive.

Mercyhurst to the rescue! I don't know who called who first but the result is that Mercyhurst offered them the use of our theater in exchange for some undisclosed compensation. (Mercyhurst wants this film festival to happen in OUR venue next year, if that's a clue.) So, here I am dealing with some "film people" who really don't know much about real film. That's the reason why I'm trying to come up with some cut-off times... Especially because the "festival" is happening this coming Saturday!

Because the movie has been playing festivals, I'm expecting that the print will be new or close to new. Appearently, it was hot shit at Sundance. (I don't know how good it really is. I'm just relating what the local buzz has been.)

Judge for yourself:

The movie is called, Saw from Lion's Gate.

IMDB Link

Basically, I want to:

(A) Cover my ass.
(B) Know what I can demand in the furtherance of (A).
(C) Know what demands I can make stick.

I guess this means I have to demand the print be in my hands no later than 5:00 PM on Friday unless they want to pay me some serious overtime. [Big Grin]

To answer the question: Making movies is NOT my only job. I have lots of other things to do in an ordinary day. This film is just another thing I have to do in my normal work week which averages 60 hrs.

BTW: Who is handling print delivery for Lion's Gate (MGM) these days? I sincerely hope it's ETS! We've got a good relationship with our local ETS courrier. They'll deliver to our door. Technicolor films are delivered by DHL and they have to drop them off at our mail room. If it IS coming from Technicolor, I'll have to call them and request a special drop-off at our door. The mail room closes at 5:00 PM Friday!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-12-2004, 08:58 PM:

Call Technicolor and explain what's going on. They may be able to set you up a special one time earlier delivery. Regardless, odds are that the print will be in physically good condition with minimal, if any, repair work needed since the prints were just recently made.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-12-2004, 09:15 PM:

Maybe you'll get the print I had last Friday. I don't remember anything about it. I guess that means it was ok.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-12-2004, 09:39 PM:

Well, Steve, I guess that means I'll get a print in such stellar condition that I could probably eat ice cream off the film cans! [Big Grin]

(Not that I'd WANT to eat ice cream off them... But, if Steve had them last I could! [Big Grin]

)

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-12-2004, 11:15 PM:

Would that that were true. I deal with what I get.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 10-13-2004, 01:34 AM:

Realistically, for "special events," I don't think you can expect to reasonably receive the print 24 hours beforehand on any kind of consistent basis. I think mandating 4 hours before the show would be reasonable for you, but of course, a lot depends on your showtimes, your own work schedules, and the delivery windows, etc. A lot of times it just ends up being day-of.

Since you're dealing with Technicolor, you should be able to give them a "needs to be here by" time and they should be able to meet it for you.

BTW, I believe TES has a flag in their database to indicate venues that require special arrangements for out-of-window deliveries (and those outside business hours). There's also a flag for "closed on government holidays." It might be a good time to check and make sure your account is set up properly.

--jhawk

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-13-2004, 02:47 AM:

quote: Randy Stankey
Because the movie has been playing festivals, I'm expecting that the print will be new or close to new.

Even if it is nearly new, that doesn't necessarily mean that it'll be problem free. If the main run of release prints has been done and you get one of those wet out of the fixing bath, so to speak, it should be fine. But if it's some sort of showprint, then as Stephen points out, there are all sorts of potential banana skins to slip on. I had one for a gala premiere (which took place at my theatre because location shooting for the film had taken place locally), which I made the mistake of rehearsing in a screen that had Dolby digital, when the actual show took place in one that didn't. Problem - the SR track was about three seconds out of sync on one reel, something which I only found out when 200 VIPs were watching it. Another time, a print which had come as part of a 'Highlights from the London Film Festival' package turned out to be sepmag, and we had no followers. A third had two copies of reel 4 and no reel 5. And so on and so forth.

The up side, though, is that showprints doing the festival circuit will only have been handled by professionals and run on properly looked-after equipment, so they should be pretty clean.

As well as everyone else's suggestions, if I was in your shoes I would send the hirer a technical specifications sheet stating exactly what formats you can cope with (gauges, ratios, speeds & sound formats), and making clear that if the materials they supply do not comply then you won't be able to show it. I would also put on the sheet very clearly if you are not able to show the film without cutting the leaders (like archives, some studios and distributors insist that showprints be run with changeovers, without cutting the heads and tails); or if you can run changeovers, put on the sheet that it is the hirer's responsibility to notify you if they don't want the heads or tails cut.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-13-2004, 08:23 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
showprints doing the festival circuit will only have been handled by professionals and run on properly looked-after equipment, so they should be pretty clean.

Hahahahahaha.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-13-2004, 07:49 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap

...I would send the hirer a technical specifications sheet stating exactly what formats you can cope with...

A CAPITAL idea!

Traditionally, we have been booking our own films and this hasn't been an issue but, if this festival idea grows, said technical specs will become quite important!

Anybody have an example of a tech sheet I can work from?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-13-2004, 08:39 PM:

Do you have a regular tech packet for theatre rentals that describes stuff like your fly system, load-in/load-out facilities, electrical facilities, sound system, etc.? If so, I'd just add something like this:

--CUT HERE--
Projection Booth

35mm Simplex projector with platter system, xenon lamp, and Dolby sound processor (can be patched into house system) - must call ahead to arrange for projectionist (billable at $xx.xx/hour, x hours minimum). Available formats include 1.33 (Academy and full-frame silent, with variable speed), 1.66, 1.85, and 2.39 CinemaScope. Available sound formats are Academy mono, Dolby A-type, and Dolby SR optical. We _cannot_ accommodate 16mm prints, sepmag prints, Super-35 prints, prints mounted on reels larger than 2000,' or prints where leaders may not be cut to run on platter. Venue reserves the right to refuse to show prints in poor condition. Prints must be in the hands of projectionist at least xx hours prior to showtime. Pre-screeings are recommended in order to ensure quality presentation; these will cost $xxx/hour, plus hourly charge for operator (as above). Renters may (or may not--it might depend on whether yours is a union house) supply qualified projectionists (at discretion of venue and at own expense) if desired.
--END CUT--

Also be sure to include information on your screen size, masking system, method for lowering, etc. in information on fly line usage. Oh, and be sure to include info on available piano/organ, tuning requirements, etc., if you will be running silents (or renting the venue to those who are.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-13-2004, 10:00 PM:

Yes, we do have a tech sheet for our theater. Compiled over the years and refined and retyped just last year by none other than Yours Truly. [Smile]

I was thinking about something along the lines of what you say but sometimes it hard to come up with the right words, especially when you are unsure of common practice. (I know how *I* do things but what other people do is anybody's guess.)

No, there won't be anybody else but me or college employees running the system. People around here (including me) are just too sketchy about that. However, if the customer demands to have their own technician/operator present to "assist" in operating the projector I have no problem with that, even if that other person ends up doing most of the work. We will demand that a college employee be on duty at all times (probably me) and that employee will have final say over what is allowed to go on in the projection room.

Oh, BTW. We DO have a set of 16mm projectors (A couple of nice "Slot Loading" Elmos with xenon lamps.) and a changeover control AND the long-throw lens adaptors to hit a 12 foot tall screen from 100 feet away. That was what they used to show movies on before I came along. They've been stored away for several years and have only been used twice (both times by me) since we got 35mm. We WILL be using them again this year for a film that my boss could only book on 16mm. (Unless somebody knows where to get a decent print of "Brazil".)

Anyhoo... Thanks for the advice, Scott and everybody else!

I just "laid down the law" to our renter this afternoon. They promised to have the print delivered to my door by no later than 5:00 on Friday. Let's see if they can keep that promise.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-14-2004, 02:11 AM:

I agree with Steve. The "Festival Circuit" is a short description of a wide variety of venues & operators. Some of that stuff comes in looking like it's been run through Mouli Grater.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-14-2004, 02:48 AM:

quote: Randy Stankey
We WILL be using them again this year for a film that my boss could only book on 16mm. (Unless somebody knows where to get a decent print of "Brazil".)

The National Film & Television Archive in London has an OK-to-reasonable 35mm print, but importing a print wouldn't be cheap; plus they wouldn't let you platter it.

The tech spec sheet posted by Scott is along the lines of the ones I did, but I tended to leave equipment types etc. out, and simply list what I can and can't show. If I were doing one for our university cinema, it would look like this:

quote:
Film Formats
16mm & Super 16 - continuous projection up to 6,000 feet at any speed from 16 to 25fps (slight visible flicker below 20fps); any ratio (letterboxed widescreen prints can be zoomed to fit our screen), including anamorphic; optical, combined magnetic or sepmag (centre or edge). We will need to cut the leaders and tails from feature-length 16mm prints supplied in shorter reels, or there will be a short break in projection between reels. If you are supplying 16mm materials for projection you must leave a note in the containers stating if leaders and tails may not be cut.

35mm - any speed from 16 to 25fps. Ratios: Full gate silent, Academy (1:1.38), 1:1.66, 1:1.85, 1:2.39 (anamorphic). Sound formats: optical mono, Dolby 'A', Dolby SR, Dolby digital. We cannot play DTS, SDDS or magnetic soundtracks (combined or sepmag). We run two projectors on a changeover system and do not use any long-play device which necessitates cutting the leaders and tails from 35mm prints.

Video
VHS, S-VHS, UMatic (lo, hi & SP), Beta SP, Digibeta, Mini DV & DVCAM can all be played, PAL only. Please note that we cannot play SeCAM or NTSC format videotapes. DVD - all regions, both PAL & NTSC, PCM, MPEG or Dolby sound (not DTS).

The chances are that the hirer you're dealing with (in my experience it was usually some pretty-but-thick PR girl) is about as likely to understand any of this as a rabbi is to have a bacon sandwich for breakfast; but if you can extract an agreement that they will only supply materials which comply with what the sheet says you can handle, then your ass is covered with bulletproof armour plating if they should screw up.

As for the festival circuit - OK, maybe that was a bit of a generalisation; but as a general rule, the festival showprints I would get were in a much better physical state than routine distribution prints.

Posted by Robert L. Fischer (Member # 2424) on 10-14-2004, 03:38 AM:

Warning: extremely long sentence ahead (I'm tired)

We usually do a private showing for Technicolor employees (we're a mile or two from the Wilmington depot) during the holidays or when they handle a big kids' movie (most recent ones being Shrek 2 and Shark Tale) and of course they provide the extra print (and a standee if we're lucky [Big Grin]

) if necessary, so it doesn't get any more convenient than that.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-15-2004, 09:22 PM:

Just an update: The print arrived today, just as they promised.
I got it in time to build it up and it's on the platter... A brand new print! It's the first new print I have seen in years!

Guys who work in commercial theaters that get new prints all the time don't know how well-off they are until they work on the other side of the tracks for a while!

Tomorrow, I go in early to get set up and clean the machine before we start. If I can get everything done in time I'll give it a prescreening!

<Sigh of relief!>