quote: Randy Stankey

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They make high-end "audiophile" equipment.

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I'll call their stuff many things, but high-end isn't one of them!
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-25-2004, 05:02 AM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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When Bose builds a sound system it is designed with a scientist's point of view.

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Ah Randy, my friend, I am afraid you have fallen for the Madison Avenue line of b/s that has been the Bose legacy. It was marketing genius, not the scientific genius of Professor Bose that is the hallmark of the Bose "system." It's very similar to the marketing genius of True cigarettes. One day the marketing people sat down with the guys at RJ Renolds and said, "the national obsession at the moment is filters on cigarettes....Can you come up with a filter that can be constructed to look very scientific, very unusual, but that can be manufactured very cheaply; it will be the central point of our marketing campaign." After a few misses, they came up with a simple plastic contraption that had "folded filter chambers" in it and when cross-sectioned, it looked something a kind of maze that the smoke had to pass through. Mind you, this little plastic gizmo had NOTHING to do with filtering smoke or anything else....the cigarette itself as well as the "filter" were designed for a marketing campaign. Thus True cigarettes were born. The marketing strategy came first; the filter was designed afterwards, not by the scientists but by the marketing department. Ads for True featured the famous filter cut opened, showing the "advanced folded filter chambers" (which, coincidentally and oddly enough, looked suspiciously similar to the cross sectioned views of the Bose 901s in their ads showing the "folded acoustic chambers"). The True ad also trumpeted the slogan underneath the cross sectioned filter: "The True Filter Chambers -- so advanced, it would take a scientist to explain it." Indeed it would, except what he would say after he stopped laughing would be, "Yes, and it's all a pile of b/s."

I was a young sound man for the LaBrie FM Stereo Network in NYC when the Bose 901s first came out. They were all the rage. All the reviews marveled at their "openness" and "fluidity"....all the hype words that "audiophiles" like to throw around when they don't want to admit that a piece of equipment just happens to catch their fancy and they don't really know why....perhaps it was just good marketing and a nice cross section of "acoustic chambers" that looks way cool, so they start spewing out gobbly-de-gook to make people think they know what they are talking about.

All I know is, I plunked down a cool $1200, which in those days was quite a high price for a pair of speakers. Thing is, I would go to my friend's apartment; he had a pair of KLH 6s, and whatever he played on them sounded wonderful to me, especially the warm, rich bottom end (thank you Mr. Kloss, also of MIT -- also a genius). So I unpacked my Bose 901 triangle jobs with all those folded chambers and eight small speakers facing the wall and one facing forward and I anticipated I would hear great sound, even better than my friend's KLH system. I played the same music I had heard on KLH 6s and I was much unimpressed....downright disappointed, in fact. And I tweaked them and twiddled with them and did everything I could and foolded with their special electronic equalizing box to no end. I even turned the boxes around to face me instead of the wall. No matter what, they had maddeningly wimpy bass and what's worse, the thing that impressed me in the showroom where I first heard them -- that so-called "airy," "fluid" quality -- I shortly came to undestand, that was really just sound bouncing all over the place because the speakers were aimed at the walls. What that gimmick turned out to do was to create a stereofield so smeared and so indistinct that most of the time you couldn't tell where in hell any of the instruments of the orchestra were located. You'd listen to this system for an hour or so and the listening fatigue they created made you constantly get up to futz with the controls, trying to get out of them what your ears were yearning to hear but couldn't. And the gimmick "electronic controller" they threw in which was supposed to "correct" what the speakers lacked, that also turned out to be a big zero. I longed for the round, in-your-gut bottom-end that a pair of KLH 6s seemed to effortlessly deliver.

Finally, I hooked up the 901s to a Phase Linear amp (350w RMS. per channel) and a Pultec parametric eq to try to coax a warmer, more robust bass response. I played the Dies Ire's massive kettle drum hits and cranked up the low end. No matter what a speaker design, to get bottom end, the system needs to MOVE AIR. These wussy little tv speakers mounted in this weird wedgie box MOVED NOTHING. I got nothing but anemic, thin crap out of them....so I turned the amp level up more and more until finally two or three of Professor Bose's shittly little tv speakers blew themselves to smithereens and smoke started coming out the back....filtered, no doubt, thru of one of the scientific acoustic chambers. I wouldn't give these things away to my worst enemy.

Not surprisingly, a few years later when Consumer Reports evaluated the Bose 901 system, their report echoed every one of my complaints. The speakers created a blurred, confusing stereo soundfield, they were so bass-shy as not to quality for 'Hi-Fi' and the bouncing sound off whatever walls happen to be in the listen room was a gimmick rather than any scientific leap in sound delivery. The Bose marketing firm, realizing this critique pretty much exposed the crux of their scam, took Consumer Reports to court demanding they retract the findings and recall that issue. Consumer Reports, noted for their impeccable impartiality, won the case. I offered my observations as a witness, but the case was so open and shut that I was never called -- much to my disappointment as I would have given them an earful, which is more than what the 901s gave me!

It just might be that theatre installers haven't gone with Bose's attempt to gain a share of the professional cinema market with their so-called theatre systems because, well, those freaky looking baby speakers just don't perform as well as conventional systems, and me thinks installers as savvy enough to know it.

Bose has continued to retain that which has been their distinguishing trading point from day one -- their odd looking, supposedly "sexy" looking speakers -- I give you their bass "cannon" as an example; evidently it doesn't fool theatre professionals. But they continue to sell to consumers who go for the sexy and who the marketing agencies find easy to catch with gimmicks and slogans. The only thing Bose hasn't done yet is stick the word DIGITAL on their products. At least not yet.

PS -- what did I do after I got rid of my 901 disasters? I did some research; I learned about bass coupling. I loved the KLH 6s so much, that I thought if two sounded so good, 8 would sound even better. I bought eight KLH 6s, four per channel and arranged them so the woofers coupled. The first thing I played thru them was Verdi's Requiem, the Dies Irae Sequence. I had my friends all gathered round to hear the new system for the first time. I cranked it up. Here come the kettle drum whacks....hold on to your gonads. Men sat there with their mouths opened in awe and amazement; women wept. What more could you possibly want from a sound system?! Oh, and as for moving air? I could get this system to blow out candles! How's THAT for a marketing campaign?

[ 10-29-2004, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]
 

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Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 10-25-2004, 07:04 AM:
 
Frank, I'm of the same opinion on Bose stuff. They do a lot of marketing hoopla, but that's about all. On the 901's, I always wondered what could be so wonderful about a speaker system that required you to use a special EQ box just to improve the responce of those tinny 4 inch speakers.
 

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Posted by Ian Joseph Parfrey (Member # 2682) on 10-25-2004, 07:22 AM:
 
One man's meat is another man's poison.

Audiophile-wise, Bose
Klipschhorn
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-25-2004, 08:24 AM:
 
"No Highs No Lows.... Its Got To Be Bose" Thats the saying that stuck to the 901 series speakers!!

Ian... Klipschhorns are hardly high end stirff either. Only the Klipsch's with certain older drivers are any good.... "The man with the evil eyes told me so"...... so argue with him about it.... we are not allowed to mention his actual name here....

High End = stuff like B$W, Dynaudio, Thiel, Wilson Audio, Magnapan, etc. Companies like these have spent huge sums of money to develope driver technology that is sometimes mind boggling. Dynaudio and B$W probably more so in this regard than the others since they build every driver that goes into their systems.

Mark
 

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Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 10-25-2004, 01:03 PM:
 
The thing I always noticed about those "in-store" Bose home theatre displays was that they only sounded decent because of the subwoofer, usually hidden beneath the tv. I'm sorry, but no matter what technology you have behind it, a 1 inch or so driver can only move enough air to be useful as a high frequency tweeter.

- Mike
 

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Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 10-25-2004, 04:03 PM:
 
"They make high-end "audiophile" equipment"
???
"Audiophile" can mean either high quality high fidelity equipment or extremely high priced stuff with magical properties (impossible to measure with the normal instruments) best described with mysterious terms of praise like "open", "airy", "fresh", "sparkling" ... I have to assume you refer to Bose in the latter meaning.
Their prices have always been "high end" so they can cover their massive marketing budget.
Bose have pretty nice demo booths in big box style electronics stores but you won't see them at reputable home theatre specialists. Bose rents the space, provides the demo booth, and tells you what you can put in it. No real meaningful demo - the kind that would actually compare Bose with the cheaper and better stuff - is possible.
Here in Toronto at least Bose products are available at some specialist dealers - but the demo room is not designed, supplied, and controlled by Bose.
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 10-25-2004, 07:13 PM:
 
They even have a Bose Store up here in the Mall of America (probably not the only location, though), where chumps will put down several thousand dollars thanks to the lack of any basis for comparison. When I worked at Best Buy, Bose was one of those products that couldn't be sold. They put in this really loud display for their Lifestyle system (it was so loud at the back of the store that the cashiers would complain :mad) and the only sales that it got used on were the ones where a "product specialist" from video would take a customer from listening to a 27" TV's speakers and show them the lifestyle system. They had the idea that people would love it so much that they'd apply for all the credit they could and have the thing installed. But the damn company never gave us any specs, never told us how the Lifestyle automatically calibrates itself (they just told us that it involved a set of headphones that 'pinged' the speakers).

The only people ever interested in Bose were those people that were already financial slaves to the brand or couldn't pronounce the name, but both groups assumed that Bose was the best brand for no apparent reason. The only sale I ever made on an Acoustimass system was to some guy who had absolutely no space for speakers. It was also the choice of a lot of the female customers (no sexism intended, that's just how it happened) because the speakers wouldn't interfere with their stuff already in the room or house in question. But usually the guys shopping with those ladies would hear the Bose systems, see the price, and go for floorstanding JBL's or Cerwin Vegas .

About the only speakers I condemned as much as Bose, yet still saw many get sold were these Jensen speakers that looked like house speakers from some redneck bar. They sounded god awful, but they went fast...

And just for fun, some of the mispronunciations...
Boss-ee
Boise
Boss
Bo-say
Boy-say
Booze... (yes, I actually heard these from customers, employees alike )
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 10-25-2004, 07:51 PM:
 
Paul Harvey

says if I buy a Dr. Amar Bose

WaveRadio®

and close my eyes, I'll swear there's an orchestra playing in my living room. That's all I need to know.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-25-2004, 08:24 PM:
 
David, don't forget the sad, but medically proven fact that as people get into their elder years, their hearing dies. Those two boys look like they're gettin' up there.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-25-2004, 10:25 PM:
 
You guys can say what you want about Paul Harvey, but that Wave Radio system sounds really nice for what's basically a clock radio. It has amazing bass for its size. (I don't own one but I know someone who does.)

I do agree that the 901s were crap.

I have a pair of 30-year-old Akai speakers in my system at home that still sound just fine. I don't think speakers are as complicated as all the scientists try to make them.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 10-25-2004, 11:13 PM:
 
Actually the WaveRadio does sound very good for its size. And I haven't taken a serious listen to any Bose speakers for years, so I have no idea what their current product sounds like.
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-25-2004, 11:37 PM:
 
Well, I like Bose. I certainly don't claim to be an audiophile, and I don't have much to compare them to, but I have Bose Accoustimass computer speakers. Two Accoustimass cubes accompanied by a bass module that sits on the floor under my desk. All I can say is oh, my God! As far as computer speakers go, they kick some serious ass. In fact, I don't even have a stereo system. I listen to my CD's on my computer. Anywho, these speakers have got to be about eight years old. This model was discontinued several years ago. Its successor, the Companion® 3 multimedia speaker system, kicks even more ass. I have seen them on display at the Bose stores. (No, the Mall of America is certainly not the only location; I personally know of several Bose stores in Florida alone, plus one in Vegas. There are more.) Yes, their current products are certainly impressive.

Yeah, there probablly are speakers that sound better out there, but to me, the size of Bose speakers has always been amazing.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-27-2004, 09:17 PM:
 

quote: Mike Blakesley

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...that Wave Radio system sounds really nice for what's basically a clock radio.

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WTF RU smokin' up there, Mike?

500 bux for a clock radio? JFC! I'll take my $39.95 Emerson NBS auto sync time/date dual alarm AM/FM clock radio to wake my sorry ass up... as well as any sleep-over "friend".

THE ONLY thing Bose does good at all is their noise-canceling headphones.

For a while, JBL had a kick-ass movie theatre subwoofer line based on the Bose tube principal that was THE best ever sub...next to BGW. But, because of a Bose lawsuit, JBL was found to be infringing on Bose's patents and the companies could not reach a biz agreement much to the detriment of all. So the line was discontinued.

BTW: I agree with Brad (Please God, forgive me.)... Paul Harvey and Dr. Amar Bose are both deaf in one ear and can't hear in the other...

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 10-27-2004, 10:07 PM:
 
It's easy to find speakers @ half the cost of Bloze that will blow the woofers off them........Oh, wait, bloze doesn't have woofers......
 

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Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 10-28-2004, 09:50 AM:
 
The only Bose speakers I ever had were Bose 201s for surround speakers in my living room back in the day when Dolby Pro Logic was top-of-the-line. Both speakers got the same signal without much high-frequency, so a pair of those atop bookshelves in the back of the room was fine for surround.

One time back in 1989, a friend showed off his new high-end Bose speakers. He played some music on them and I just wasn't that impressed with the sound. I couldn't really tell why, but it just sounded flat to me.

I admit I've never been impressed with Bose speakers for mains. I have JBL HP520s for mains and I love them. When I bought them in 1994 (for $299 each when video Concepts went out of business -- they were $768 each when new), they were the best sounding speakers I'd heard in a store, and I was really glad when the price on them dropped enough for me to take a pair home. I plan on using those speakers until they wear out somehow unless I find something superior for a decent price.
 

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 10-28-2004, 10:22 AM:
 
Has anyone else notice the uncanny resemblance of that picture of Dr. Bose to the clown in "Singin in the Rain" who appears in the fake demo sound film? "...a Talking Picture...Thank you and Good Night".
 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 10-28-2004, 10:36 AM:
 

quote:

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he's a freakin' genius!

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