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BURBANK, Calif., Oct. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Buena Vista Pictures Distribution will officially make the switch to environmentally friendly pure-dye cyan soundtracks for all future 35mm film prints of Walt Disney Pictures and Touchstone Pictures releases, starting with the February 2005 release of Disney's "The Heffalump Movie," it was announced today (10/25) by Chuck Viane, President of Buena Vista Pictures Distribution, and Jeff Miller, President, Worldwide Post Production and Operations for The Walt Disney Studios. Buena Vista joins MGM in leading the industry's commitment to this milestone in exhibition technologies.
This move follows Buena Vista's announcement of intent this past March, and the successful test of 2,800 pure-dye cyan soundtrack prints for the Touchstone Pictures' comedy, "Mr. 3000" in September. This new soundtrack technology represents a noteworthy environmental advance for the motion picture industry as it eliminates the traditional silver-applicated tracks and the use of caustic chemicals involved in that manufacturing process. Buena Vista worked closely with Dolby, Kodak, Technicolor, and NATO to perfect the technology, and to encourage theater owners to install RED LED soundtrack readers on their projectors.

Commenting on the announcement, Viane said, "Our test engagement of pure-dye cyan soundtrack prints for 'Mr. 3000' was an overwhelming success and proved that the exhibition community is indeed ready for this new technology. Based on that success, we are proud to be leading the industry in adopting safer standards that will have a major impact on the environment. This latest innovation has been made possible by an unprecedented collaboration between Disney, NATO, and our manufacturing partners, and we salute them in helping to make the world a cleaner and safer place."

Miller added, "This new soundtrack technology represents one of the most significant advances in film manufacturing in the past 70 years, and all of us at Disney believe very strongly in the benefits it presents for both our product and the environment. This has truly been an industry-wide effort to improve the way release prints are manufactured, and we are confident that this is the wave of the future. Starting in January, all of our 35mm prints will use pure-dye cyan soundtracks."

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 10-25-2004, 05:53 PM:
 
Well, if 'Pooh's Heffalump Movie' is their first release of '05, then it's business as previously stated. But if not, then this is just a grand way of pushing back the cyan date.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-25-2004, 06:09 PM:
 
Jan 07, 2005: UNDERCLASSMAN (Miramax)
Jan 14, 2005: LES CHORISTES (Miramax)
Jan 21, 2005: HOSTAGE (Miramax)

Feb 11, 2005: POOH'S HEFFALUMP MOVIE <Walt Disney> (Buena Vista)
Feb 25, 2005: CURSED <Dimension> (Miramax)
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-26-2004, 12:13 AM:
 
Well, I hope all the foreign countries who a) complained that they didn't have the resources to upgrade all their exciters to red lights, and b) constantly blame America for all the environmental ills of the world ... are ready for the switch!


 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-26-2004, 05:39 AM:
 
Many overseas countries have a higher percentage of red reader installations than the USA. I just saw results of a theatre survey in New Zealand that showed 89 percent of screens were ready. Dominic may have recent figures for Australia and other countries in that part of the world.

Yes, there still are places that show films on a sheet from the back of a truck using antiquated equipment, but the theatre industry in many countries uses the latest technology, and is ready for the change.
 

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Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 11-08-2004, 09:45 PM:
 
But at what cost is the change this is the latest thing sent to me and I have been told that Disney will be all cyan from January 1st 2005 MGM will follow in March with others following in April

With the new Cyan Sound track that is to be used from the 1st January you will have to replace the optics with a Red Led Reader, as the old exciter lamp system will give you little or no sound output.
This involves installing a new Reader, that is a new Lens with the cell and preamp combined.
The reason for replacing the Lens is the quality of sound is improved, a Kalee would have a top sound output of 6,000 to 8,000 cycles where the new reader would be flat to 16,000 cycles.
The cell is also the slit so the film is focused on the cell and there is no cross track information to cause Surround problems like speech coming from the surrounds or low level distortion.
All units you have to install new power supplies.
The Century are straight forward but the RCA (Toshiba) you have to dismantle the soundhead to install the new reader and the Kalee you have to replace the mounting hardware.
The new Kalee hardware fits 83, 378, 543, 678, 834 not sure of the 890. Can you send me a photo of the soundhead.

The cost of the Readers: -

* Century kit (Reader, Led with bracket and Power Supply) $1,680 + GST.
* RCA Toshiba Kit (Reader, Led with bracket, collar for lens and Power Supply) $1,720 + GST.
* Kalee kit (Reader, Led with new mounting hardware and Power Supply) $1,904 + GST.

The estimated time to install each unit: -

* Century 2.5 to 3.5hrs
* RCA 3.5 to 4.5hrs
* Kalee 3.5 to 4.5hrs


 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 11-12-2004, 12:02 PM:
 
I borrowed a trailer with a cyan (light blue/green) track and ran on my Holmes at home. The level was 6 - 8db lower, well within volume control range and sounded fine. I have a white exciter lamp but my pickup is a home brew stereo photo-transistor setup. Pictures and Circuit Drawing
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-12-2004, 12:50 PM:
 

quote: Edward Jurich

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I borrowed a trailer with a cyan (light blue/green) track and ran on my Holmes at home. The level was 6 - 8db lower, well within volume control range and sounded fine. I have a white exciter lamp but my pickup is a home brew stereo photo-transistor setup.

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If you had to up the gain by 8 dB, you definitely are getting more noise. Did you listen in a quiet environment, or with headphones? Even a "home brew" red LED source would likely help improve the signal.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-12-2004, 12:57 PM:
 
I did some more tests yesterday, involving a cyan-track trailer and a Kelmar mono system (with Western Electric soundheads). As I posted before, the gain had to be increased from ~6.5 to ~8.5, and there was more noise than usual, but it was definitely "listenable" and good enough that the show wouldn't need to be cancelled if a dye-track print shows up (though I agree with John P. that it isn't really suitable for a permanent installation). A home-made Jax Light setup is in the works for this theatre.

Hopefully I will get to try this same experiment tonight on Simplex 5-star soundheads with white-light exciters and a Dolby processor. I suspect that the noise reduction will improve quality considerably.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-12-2004, 07:16 PM:
 
Interesting. That's the sort of thing I've been asking about all along. Seems like maybe if you up the bulb voltage a bit and raised the pre-amp level (taking care not to mix in non cyan material) you could at least save a show.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-13-2004, 01:04 AM:
 
I tried the same thing tonight with Simplex 5-Star soundheads and a Dolby CP65 processor with Dolby A-type NR (this unit does not have the SR cards). I had to turn the fader up from "7" to "10" and the sound level was still slightly lower than it should normally be at "7." Sound quality was decent--not great, but stil listenable. I doubt it would generate complaints from audience members.

From these non-scientific tests, I would conclude that, yes, theatre owners _should_ convert to the proper readers, but, no, the result of playing a dye track with a conventional soundhead is not as bad as many of us had been led to believe. It certainly is not bad enough to cancel a show if a dye-track print shows up unexpectedly.
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 11-13-2004, 02:57 AM:
 
I ran 'Everything Else' back when it came out on a standard exciter system (USL JSX1000, Century SA/R3E)to see what happened if one ran cyan on a white-light reader, and with the volume cranked to maximum on the processor the sound was barely audible (had to strain to hear the dialogue clearly) and had lots of hissy noise in it (which made the track even harder to hear). It would have definitely caused customer complaints.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-13-2004, 10:33 AM:
 
Hope you've got some extra speaker parts stashed in the back somewhere.

'Bout the first time a studio splice goes through your machine, you'll be re-coning the auditorium!
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 11-14-2004, 04:45 AM:
 
won't those be quieter as well if they're cyan (played with normal exciter lamp)?

carl
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-14-2004, 09:53 AM:
 
Well, now that you mention it, you may be right. The cyan track isn't as dense as the silver one.

John????????
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-14-2004, 10:01 AM:
 
Which begs the question:

Should a system be capable of destroying speakers no matter what input signal it's given? Shouldn't a line be drawn short of self destruction? With digital processing and DSP crossovers ought there not be a way to limit based on the particular capabilities of amps and speakers? I don't mean Afterburner toning things down overall but rather something that blocks some sort of extreme that whether part of a track or not simply cannot be allowed to go through.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-14-2004, 10:17 AM:
 
Good thought, Steve... and if a sound system was built as a single unit (the "Apogee" of audio ), that might be possible.

Too many variables, though. You could limit any audio component so it wouldn't ever clip. However, even if you had a full audio chain of self-limited components, you'd lose control as soon as you hit the speaker... unless you want to allow the amplifier manufacturer to designate speaker models.

You'd have to have an amplifer that would allow you to set a maximum headroom over whatever output level generates 85dB in your auditorium. That could be done... but it'd wind up being something like an Overdrive anyway, wouldn't it?
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-14-2004, 10:50 AM:
 
Stage Accompany actually has that on there amplifier speaker combinations that look at the speaker as a servo motor and the amp monitors the drivers position
still a proper red reader will be far less expensive than redesigning the system around a situtation to maintain a white light
 

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Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 11-14-2004, 01:26 PM:
 
PolyFuse?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-14-2004, 02:13 PM:
 
Never used a Poly Fuse but....

Klipsch (are we allowed to mention that name here) used zener diodes across their HF drivers in many models. The LaScalla was one of them.

Dolby used car tail light bulbs in the surrounds in the Dolby screening room to prevent tweeter losses. They were and still are running an incredible amount of power(many thousands of watts) in each surround channel there. Don't know if the bulbs are still in the speakers but I have also done this trick with great sucess.

Installing a limiter in the system can also be helpful at limiting transients capable of blowing out drivers..... The limiter can be set to a tad higher level than any digital track will put out at say 85 db refrence level. So it will basically not be there in normal film playback but would be there to save the system fomr large transients(or the janitors listening to music whilst cleaning up). Some QSC amps have built in limiting that can be switched in or out.

quote: Ed Jurich

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Holmes at home.

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I never heard of that model Holmes....

Mark
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 11-15-2004, 06:19 PM:
 
Poly Fuses or Poly Switches as they are called in OZ are very reliable devices and are primarily intended for speaker use.
In most Electronic parts stores there is a range of 10 generally available.They range in current ratings from 0.3A to 3.75A continous at 20C and "trip" at twice the continuos rating.
When they trip they more or less go open.. or quite hi resistance and stay that way until the excess drive is removed. Then they cool down and resume normal condition.
Have a pair installed in my mobile screening speakers being driven by a 100watt RMS amp. In use when I drive things real hard the audible effect is that the speaker keeps going but slowly reduces in output... the harder you drive it the quieter the speaker becomes. GOOF PROOF.
In reality they are positive temperature coefficient devices. IE the resistance rises as the temp increases by the passage of current thru them.
However they cannot effectively limit sudden harsh transients and that is where the car lamp use "shines"... only problem is being able to always find a suitable lamp to suit all situations.
Any speakers that I occasionally hire out have Poly Switches installed as one never knows what folk will attempt to drive them with.
Lindsay
 

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Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 11-15-2004, 09:28 PM:
 
John Pytlak posted a news item ..pure-dye cyan soundtracks for all future 35mm film prints of Walt Disney Pictures and Touchstone Pictures releases, starting with the February 2005 release of Disney's "The Heffalump Movie,"

A few Ozzie exhibitors were told that The Incredibles due for release at Christmas will be in the new cyan, how can this be surely Disney would not strike special prints for Australia? At least it having the desired affect by getting everyone to rush around looking for Red LED's

 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-16-2004, 07:30 AM:
 

quote: Frank Jerkic

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A few Ozzie exhibitors were told that The Incredibles due for release at Christmas will be in the new cyan, how can this be surely Disney would not strike special prints for Australia? At least it having the desired affect by getting everyone to rush around looking for Red LED's

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Interesting. Even if they import some rejuvenated prints from the USA, it's likely many new prints will be made for that market since it will still be playing in North America. Recent theatre surveys show the vast majority of theatres in Australia and New Zealand have red LED readers, so Disney may have decided to go ahead with the conversion to cyan dye tracks a bit earlier than the rest of the world.
 

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Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 11-16-2004, 08:30 PM:
 
Hi John, Well I dont know about any survey being done on cinemas in Australia / NZ to see if they have changed over to Led Readers Maybe they have only surveyed the major complex's, Nobody has ever asked me and if it was not for Disney's letter saying Mr. 3000 would be in cyan I would be none the wiser, what I do know is that there are quite a few independant cinems (me included) that have not made the change and a few have no idea of what I am talking about
 

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Posted by Dominic Case (Member # 1830) on 11-16-2004, 09:13 PM:
 

quote: Frank Jerkic

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Hi John, Well I dont know about any survey being done on cinemas in Australia

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A comprehensive survey was carried out a couple of years ago, Frank, with a very impressive response rate. Over 80% of cinemas in Asutralia were approached, and over 80% of those responded - very good results for any survey method. 78% of those that responded at that time already had red LED readers. WE had 100% response fro the major chains, less thorough responses from the individual cinemas - but it's still a good sample. Whether you were one of the few who were missed, or one who didn't respond - or perhaps you actually did respond then - it's clear that the vast majority were red LED then (October 2002), and I know that many more are now. You are one of the few who haven't converted.

The results of the survey have been on the dyetracks website for a couple of years - so there's no reason for "not knowing about any survey".

Quite reently, Peter Amies at the Film Unit (New Zealand) carried out a survey in NZ, also published on the dyetracks website. He found an even higher red LED penetration, and the report makes very interesting reading. Have a look.

Disney stated that they would be ordering cyan tracks in the New Year. As The Incredibles is due out before then, clearly it won't be in cyan.

I won't go through all the information that has been disseminated about the change to cyan tracks yet again, but it's hard to believe that there are many cinemas who don't, by now, know what you are talking about. Even if all they'd had was the Disney Mr3000 letter they would have been alerted.
 

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Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 11-16-2004, 10:02 PM:
 
Quote:-
it's hard to believe that there are many cinemas who don't, by now, know what you are talking about. Even if all they'd had was the Disney Mr3000 letter they would have been alerted.
___________________________________________________________________

Yes I agree that they should have been alerted before the Disney letter NOT after recieving the letter but I dont recall if that letter said or explained that you needed to change your xciter bulb etc. there is 2 small town cinemas about 4 hours from me that I know off who dont have internet or the foggest idea what is going to change.
I never recieved any survey form neither did my friend at Charters Towers, Where's the movie Mr. 3000 now?
Kind Regards
Frank
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 11-17-2004, 02:02 AM:
 
Frank,

Do not know how much stuff you actually screen from BVI here in OZ but it seems that most exhibitors who have had BVI product in the last 6 months or so got a circular letter during March 2004 from BVI regarding the switch to Cyan tracks.
I cannot get my bloody scanner to take this B&W letter and make a JPEG file out of it so I can post it here so I will retype verbatim.
It is headed: BVI Australia.

"To all technical & projection staff,

Buena Vista to Make the Switch to the Environmentally
Friendly Cyan Analog Soundtracks
Starting September 24, 2004

On September 24th 2004 Buena Vista Pictures Distribution will release the Touchstone Films Comedy, Mr 3000, with cyan dye (blue) analog soundtracks. This is the first Buena Vista release to be printed with the new tracks. Starting in January 1 2005, all Buena Vista prints worldwide will have cyan dye analog soundtracks. The new process offers significant environmental benefits.

To play the new analog tracks, your projector must be equipped with a visible red light analog reader. Although this change does not directly affect playback of the digital soundtracks, in the event of a digital soundtrack failure, the analog will have unacceptable sound without a visible red light reader. You can expect that with a white light reader the sound will be 12dB lower than the digital track and with an infrared reader you will have no sound.

If your projectors are not yet equipped with red light analog readers, contact your theatre equipment dealer as soon as possible to arrange for replacement of your white light or infrared readers.

For further information about analog cyan dye tracks, the environmental benefits, and red light readers, go to [url= http://www.dyetracks.org."]www.dyetracks.org."[/url] End quote.

This was followed with a photo of the analog track on a piece of film and the note that that track will be cyan in colour.

This was signed off by BVI (Aust) Level 4 Como Centre Melbourne where we all go to book BVI product.

I got my copy during the final few weeks of our past season during March 2004 and just smiled as I had done my switch prior to season start in Nov 2003.
The laser reader ran perfectly thru the season and subsequent test I have done show that the signal level WILL be the 11-12dB down with a white reader and Cyan as compared to a red reader and Cyan.
I can compensate with the Eprad Starlet processor preamp as those boards have enuff grunt to drag the cyan with a white lamp up to the 4 LED Dolby level on the Eprad so the Master fader stays at the same spot. BUT the noise also comes up and every switch click in the bio box which in the past was almost inaudible becomes a SPLAT in the sound system with the preamp wound up that much. (New speaker cones??? or poly switches)
This was just running the Cyan Dolby tone loop.... cringe to think what it will be like on a real flik during quiet passages
Others with more up to date processors may not be able to drag the level up as the Eprad was known to have plenty of front end gain.

We did not see Mr 3000 in this country so nobody got a cyan track but a couple of my mates in NSW have got cyan trailers lately and wondered what the hell was going on.

BVI, so far, are the only distributor in Australia to actually go into print regarding cyan ALL others are very silent and enquiries at the various despatch centres here in West Australia only bring a shrug of the shoulders... almost like it will not be happening

A year or so back I got a survey from then GUET re Red readers which was worded like it was almost touting for business to fit red readers and questions I raised in the response to that survey went totally unanswered so when it came to sourcing a laser reader the last place I went to was GUET (now Atlab). I figured that if they could not find the time to respond they really did not want my business.
Very happy with the ACL laser unit and it just drops straight into the Century/Westrex 2003 soundhead and dead easy to align.

Lindsay
 

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Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 11-17-2004, 05:19 AM:
 
G'Day Lindsay

Yep I got my BVI letter in May 2004, other exhibitors didn't get one, I was asked last week if I got the one from Columbia? No I havent yet.
As I understand the problem for some small Qld country cinemas is that the BVI letter was the first they ever heard about cyan and the last they will ever hear about Mr.3000,
when I asked other film distributors about when their movies are coming out in Cyan they didnt seem to have any idea what I was on about
As I said before I think that all trailers should be in Cyan so you know what to expect and also you would know if your led reader was working correctly before you run a movie hopefully to a full house
Kind Regards
Frank
P.S. thanxs for typing out the BVI letter lol
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 11-17-2004, 04:30 PM:
 
Frank,

Have not seen anything re Cyan from Columbia but then in the last season or so I have utilised very little from them.
However, went to Roadshow Trade Day on Tues 16th Nov here in WA and NO mention from them re cyan. The only discussion re cyan was amongst us various exhibitors as to what we were all doing.
Some are adapting the Cinemecannica LED cluster to old gear such as Raycophone J3 plant, others are using what I am using (ACL) some are using the newer ACL unit which totally replaces the lens slit assembly and apparently slides into the lens clamp unit. Some of the bigger complexes in the Perth area have SOME of their readers replaced and they seem to be adopting a "wait & see" approach and have the idea that they will just move prints to the screens that have red readers if and when they get cyan prints.
There has not been any formal advice from Fox, UIP, Icon, Hopscotch, Hoyts and others re cyan... but that does not surprise me as those are more interested in just booking the film rather than the technical aspects of whether their prints will play on various plant.
One would have thought that by now after the BVI release some of these would have got off their backsides and established just what they are going to do regarding cyan.
Lindsay
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-30-2004, 03:31 AM:
 
Hi again Marko: Never heard of a "Holmes" portable projector? These used the old 1k MAZDA incadescent,Mogul base bulbs. Remember my friend Gary, in Boise? he has about 6 of these portables that he picked up for a song a long time ago. When I go over to his place, I'll have to take a snap of these Holmes and send to you. -thx monte
 

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Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 11-30-2004, 03:44 AM:
 
Heres a photo of the Holmes
 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 12-02-2004, 12:11 PM:
 

quote: John Pytlak

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If you had to up the gain by 8 dB, you definitely are getting more noise. Did you listen in a quiet environment, or with headphones? Even a "home brew" red LED source would likely help improve the signal.

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Ah, correction, I stuck my ear up to the high frequency horn and there is in fact some surface noise in the background, like a dirty LP (for those who remember what a dirty LP sounds like). I just didn't notice it before because the projector noise covered it up. But still, results were not as bad as one might expect and a red light source would probably clear up the background noise.
 

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