Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Trailers/Print sound track flipped, what would you do?

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Posted by Chase Hanson (Member # 2779) on 12-18-2004, 03:39 AM:

*sorry if this be a teaser title*

Ran into an "interesting" film based Oops today at work. Somehow, for some reason, somebody managed to build a copy of Lemony's with the ENTIRE trailer ring sound track down while the ENTIRE print was sound track up. The Operator on duty tried to detach the trailers and "flip it", only to realize that the continuity of the plattered print would be broken. This revelation was made not more than 20 minutes before this print was to go on screen, as a two screen interlock.

My "Solution" was to extract the whole trailer 'ring', disassemble/reassemble it trailer by trailer, wind it up on to a drop ring (split reel w/ a hub larger than our brains), drop in what I could get, splice it back together and go.

Can you guys think of a less time consuming solution to this problem?

[ 12-18-2004, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Chase Hanson ]

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-18-2004, 03:53 AM:

Yes. Make up the program properly in the first place. It only takes 1.5-2.5 seconds to verify the orientation of the soundtrack. That saves a lot of time. Thank you.

Posted by Brian Jupp (Member # 2801) on 12-18-2004, 03:58 AM:

I would have done the same, except I would have placed the entire trailer pack on the split ring, wound the whole thing up, rewound it onto an empty reel, then back onto the split ring with the soundtrack "up". This wouldn't even take 5 minutes.

Another solution would to build up a new trailer pack on the split ring (provided you have enough duplicate trailers) and deal with the "upsidedown" trailer pack later.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-18-2004, 04:33 AM:

You could've "speed winded" the print from one platter deck to the other, reversing the soundtrack orientation, then just dropped it back in.

Tip: revise the teaser thread title or this thread will mysteriously disappear tomorrow. [Wink]

Posted by Chase Hanson (Member # 2779) on 12-18-2004, 01:37 PM:

quote: Michael Schaffer
Yes. Make up the program properly in the first place. It only takes 1.5-2.5 seconds to verify the orientation of the soundtrack. That saves a lot of time. Thank you.

I inherited the problem, I wasnt even in the building when either the trailer pack or the print was built or assembled. But ill pass on your smart ass remark to the responsible parties.

quote: Brian Jupp
I would have done the same, except I would have placed the entire trailer pack on the split ring, wound the whole thing up, rewound it onto an empty reel, then back onto the split ring with the soundtrack "up". This wouldn't even take 5 minutes.

I would have tried the same thing...but the trailer pack would have been far larger than what would normally fit on the split reel, at least double its intended capacity (150 ft of leader, about 7 trailers and 3 in-house snipes averageing about 20 seconds).

quote: Brad Miller
You could've "speed winded" the print from one platter deck to the other, reversing the soundtrack orientation, then just dropped it back in.

Brad, you are probably going to have to elaborate on this one. I believe I understand your general premise. I dont see quite how its possible given the equipment. (Strong Decks, and MUTs)

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 12-18-2004, 01:47 PM:

The idea with pretty much any platter system is to:
Take the ring out and place it onto an empty platter
Peel off the splice tape joining the final trailer to the print
Thread the film normally except bypass the projector, upper magazine roller above projector, etc. Basically just thread from payout platter to takeup platter.
Finally engage the takeup platter. The film will "run" from platter to platter. Along the threading path you can flip the film over so it takes up properly.

The actual process will be slightly different between different models.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 12-18-2004, 01:57 PM:

It is possible to "speed wind" as Brad said. Personally, I'm not an advocate of speed winding anything. I do not permit running platters and MUTS at warp speed. It's an invitation to disaster.

I agree with Brian Jupps' solution, but I would allow for more than 5 minutes. Again, that's bookin it, but if that floats your boat, so be it. The 20 minutes you had would be more than a reasonable time to do this. And if you were a little slow, so what? I would rather see you get off a show without a mishap (and an interlock, to boot)than do a rush job and have a mess on your hands.

Posted by William Valdes (Member # 2690) on 12-18-2004, 05:02 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
You could've "speed winded" the print from one platter deck to the other, reversing the soundtrack orientation, then just dropped it back in.

quote: Chase Hanson
Brad, you are probably going to have to elaborate on this one. I believe I understand your general premise. I dont see quite how its possible given the equipment. (Strong Decks, and MUTs)

It sounds like you just thread up the ring of trailers through the platter rollers and use the mut to wind it up on the take-up platter. I've done this before, Is that right?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-18-2004, 06:14 PM:

Right. Then open the splice where you made your goof, "flip" the trailer pack so the soundtrack is correctly oriented, re-splice, and drop the pack into the middle of the feature.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-18-2004, 07:03 PM:

If it was just a trailer that's mis-spliced I would just close the dowser on the projector and turn down the sound until the back-assward trailer ran through.

I'd put a playing card or a piece of paper in the film returning to the take-up platter to remind me of the problem.

Then, after the back-assward trailer ran through, I'd reopen the dowser and restore the sound.

When the show was over I'd break the splice at the end of the bad trailer. (Marked by the playing card.) Remove the whole set of trailers as a whole then rewind them onto a reel at the bench. Fix the F-U'ed trailer, wind it onto an expandable trailer reel then drop it back into the show.

If there were no other mistakes in the program, the problem ought to be solved.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-18-2004, 07:26 PM:

Least time-consuming solution: remove all trailers, attach interlock leader to print, and run interlock without trailers. Fix trailers at rewind bench while film runs and re-attach to head of print after show.

Alternatively, if this weren't an interlock show, you could remove the trailers, put them on a separate deck and attach 10-20 feet of junk film to the tail. Then, attach a new leader to the feature. Run the trailers with an extra twist in the film path, stop the show after the trailers, bring up the house lights, thread the feature, and start the show again. Then, fix after the show.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-19-2004, 08:14 PM:

..sounds like more booth training is needed so all upstairs will be on one "page" of proper operations (too many hands in the pie ruins the pie..)

Also, if one builds up the trailer pak, then leaves it for another, the another should checks the one's build of the trailer pak before finishing the print assembly.

We do have eyes, let's use them to our advantage. -thx Monte