quote: Richard Greco

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How do you guys find out that info to bash people in the "Hey You, You Suck" Thread?

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Sometimes prints are delivered from theatre to theatre without going back to the depot. In that case the labels from the previous theatre are still on the cans, which is usually a dead giveaway.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-24-2004, 02:19 PM:
 
ETS: if you "soak" the top label with water, this label will then peel off. Then check the print number, if the same number is below your theatre's address label, then it's a good chance on where which theatre had that print. Then take the chance when you call that theatre to give them a hard heinie.

TECH: call them up and ask them, if possible.

I agree as well with you potiental search on which theatre handled that print. For I really want to go after some theatre's operators that doesn't leave refrence frames on the head leaders, then you open the cans and find the leaders all loose and askew in the cans.

Try to figure which leader to which reel is a royal pain.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-24-2004, 03:00 PM:
 
Any more than one, and exactly one ID frame left on the HEAD leader ONLY is evil, and shows carelessness and a lack of professionalism. I'm sick of hearing "one frame doesn't matter" from people too lazy to do their job properly. Just last night I screened Aviator and the last reel change would've had a jump in the dialogue if ID frames had've been cut. Yes they should not have put the changeover at that point. Yes the distributors should place a copy of the ID frame within the leader. Both are good arguments, but that is not a good reason to be lazy at your job.

The tail leaders don't matter guys. Just leave ONE on the head and no more. Although it has not been enforced, both depots WANT the prints returned "all heads". As a nice side benefit of this, anyone returning prints heads up will have the ID frame right there at the start of the reel anyway for those who are incapable of gaining "positive identification" by any of the other means available (soundtrack modulation, edge numbering, Reel ID database, etc).

Yes I know this means that extra little effort for those changeover houses that are in the extreme minority here, but NOT leaving an ID frame on the tail SHOULD be a blessing to a changeover operator. That way it doesn't botch up the timing of the changeover.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-24-2004, 04:44 PM:
 
When I can pull reels out of a case and put them up with 100% assurance that they are safe to run as is, without having to wind out to the end and wind back to heads, then I will consider rewinding. Otherwise a third winding pass through the reel on the edit bench isn't going to happen save for certain show prints, unmarrieds and other special situations. Tails out makes it easier for the next person to inspect prior to building or projection and the smooth, tight, even wind of a projector takeup in good adjustment is far better than anything that a rewinder (or MUT) can do so less chance of wear or damage in transit. It also happens to be emulsion-in which is better for the film and has never really become standard for heads-up.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-24-2004, 05:07 PM:
 
The chopping of a tail ID frame is only really beneficial for REEL TO REEL houses, Steve. Platters occupy probably 95% or more of the 35mm venues out there (at least in the US). Face the facts, most platter houses build directly to the platters, and the better ones use a platter reel for assembly. In both of those situations compromising the overwhelming majority, heads up is the preferred way to receive a print. (Even those who build to 6K reels and then platter...it's no big deal to do a quick rewind before plattering.)

In regards to return shipping, fix your friggin' rewind table so it winds smoothly.

Let's get to the real point here...the unnecessary and foolish cutting of ID frames on the tail. There is absolutely no reason in the world to chop any ID frames on the tail end of a reel. Even if you got a print in all tails up and every single tail leader was on the wrong reel...so what??? When you got to the head and used the ID frame there, you could make sure they were on the correct reels and it wouldn't affect your show in the least bit. (Of course I'm sure you would have the courtesy to reorient the incorrect tail leaders, as I'm sure every one of us here would. However the odds are that they would be on the right reels anyway, and you've got your "positive ID" frame on the head to give you your guarantee.) Remember, the sound is ahead of the picture (meaning you could even use junk leader for tail) and with the placement of reel changes these days, showing every possible frame is becoming more and more of an issue.

People who chop off an ID frame on the tail leader suck.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-24-2004, 07:27 PM:
 
I run reel-to-reel and I take up directly on the shipper...and as Steve said, no rewinder or MUT takes up with the smoothness of a proper take up system.

But more to the point, often the print is leaving right after the show and this is placing the film right in the cans as the show comes off the screen.

As to 95%...screw em...I don't care if 99% of you are doing it wrong (platter).

However, the ID frame thing..cut em I say...When I inspect a reel, it is all a presumption anyway...the tail, cue marks, soundtrack, picture format, splice-free and finally the head. It is all a presumption until I verify that that all is in order before someone sees it. Thus, by the time the head does roll around, I'll get the reel number and title, even if I didn't take the time to verify the edge numbers on the tail.

Steve
 

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Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 12-24-2004, 08:08 PM:
 
My print I got of Life Aquatic had two frames chopped from both heads and tails, leaving a 4-frame gap between each reel change. I'm not a big fan of that kind of practice, yet it seems to be popular with some places.

One thing that bothers me about the "You Suck" thread is that often times the theater you "think" ruined the film actually got it the same way you did. There have been many prints I got from other theaters' sneaks, where the damage had already been done and I had to just make do, hoping that nobody would think I was at fault.
 

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Posted by Bob Healey (Member # 1003) on 12-24-2004, 09:03 PM:
 
I'm in favor of leaving 1 ID frame on the tail. As for heads/tails out I personally don't care how they arrive, as long as they are all the same orientation.

My reasoning for leaving 1 ID frame on the tail is I have handled films with no usable ID frames on the head, and the only method I've had to confirm the reels are in the correct order is the ID frame on the tail leader matching. Pulp Fiction was a recent title - one of the reels was filled by a lazy operator and just cut when the reel was full, so none of the ID frames on the head matched. Since there was an ID frame on the tail and it matched, that helped ID which reels I was dealing with.

I'd say leave 1 (and no more than 1) frame at each end of the reel.

As long as there hasn't been a loss of frames at the tail, it doesn't affect me with changeovers.
 

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Posted by Matthew Jaro (Member # 1786) on 12-25-2004, 11:04 AM:
 
We already beat this topic to death on another thread !!!!
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-25-2004, 11:11 AM:
 
My rewinder is in excellent health; it's just as Steve says, takeup wind is still superior and the time saved is only partial compensation for the time wasted because of the habits of the run of the mill platter house which make full inspection (and often repair) mandatory rather than just a perfunctory check. And I do indeed hand off prints to waiting couriers in many cases. The only one who benefits from rewinding is a subsequent platter user and only a tiny fraction of them seem too concerned about the next user.

Platters, of course, load from heads up reels and give the film back the same way but I think you can bet that if, somehow, platters loaded from heads but returned the film to reels tails out what % operators would be rewinding for the next person? A tiny fraction if at all.

I'll take this fantasy one step further: Suppose platters & MUT's required film to be loaded with attached and perfectly spliced leaders, in frame and correctly oriented...yet returned the film with cut off leaders. I'd bet that the bulk of the theatres that return prints with masking-taped on leaders would still be doing so. So much for making it easier for the next person.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-25-2004, 11:56 AM:
 
Ahhh, the typical superiority arrogance of the changeover operators is returning in full force. After all, everyone else is doing it wrong and the vast majority of the film running population should be sure and send films back tails out with an ID frame whacked off of each end...just to make things easier on those rare few people running reel to reel. Ummmm, yeah right.

Steves, even if you boys needed to ship a print directly after running it, you only have to rewind that one last reel when the show is finished because you could have rewound the rest of them during the show. Surely that idea has crossed your mind. Oh no, the courier is going to have to wait TWO WHOLE MINUTES! The world will end!!!

Matthew is right, this thread is going nowhere. Thread closed.
 

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