Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Humidifier Manufacturers

This is topic Humidifier Manufacturers in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 12-26-2004, 11:18 AM:

Hey!

I've searched the archieves to see if anyone has named a maker of commercial humidifiers for use in the projection booth, but no one has.

I'm looking for one that permanently mounts on the wall and hooks up to a water and power supply, so rweally all that you have to do is turn it on or leave it on.

Can anyone point me in the right direction with maybe a link or the name of the humidifier company that's on the unit in your booth?

Thanks and Merry Chirstmas!

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 12-26-2004, 02:34 PM:

Nortec

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-26-2004, 07:50 PM:

Use FilmGuard and don't bother with the expense or hassles of a humidifier.

We chucked all of ours right after getting FG.

-Aaron

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 12-26-2004, 08:11 PM:

Thanks for all the helpful replies!

(*That Nortec link doesn't appear to be working)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-27-2004, 11:18 AM:

many theatres have a unit made by dristeam I have no info on them other than that they are available in gas or electric fired units
Even with filmguard it is still advisable to try to maintain the humidy at 50%

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-27-2004, 01:41 PM:

quote:
Even with filmguard it is still advisable to try to maintain the humidy at 50%

I agree with Gordon. Maintaining the relative humidity between the recommended 50 and 60 percent RH not only helps control static buildup, it also maintains the proper curl on the film. Too dry and the film has excessive "positive" curl, and static charge will stay on the emulsion surface. Too damp, and the curl goes negative, and the emulsion becomes softer and sticky, and more prone to projector abrasion.

Always use an EVAPORATIVE humidifier, that blows air through a wet paper, ceramic or foam media. Bemis and others can put many liters of water in the air each day:

http://www.sylvane.com/bemis-humidifiers.html?source=goog&keyword=bemis%20humidifier

quote:
Bemis Whole House Humidifiers
When you want to help moisturize the air throughout your home, these models generate humidity in volume. Featuring evaporative wicks, easy-to-fill bottles or reservoirs, and removable power packs, These Whole House Humidifiers are designed for your convenience and comfort.

http://www.thomasrowens.com/humidifiers.htm

quote:
In winter, the simple act of turning up your thermostat dries out your house. That's because warm, dry air acts like a giant sponge that soaks up moisture from everything it touches.

Fact is that wintertime relative humidity inside the average home hovers around a bone-dry 15%.

By contrast, the average humidity in the Sahara Desert is 25%!

The Unpleasant results:

You may experience dry skin and chapped lips. Dry air can aggravate upper respiratory problems. Itchy skin, dry throat coughs and cracked nasal membranes are all consequences of dry air.

Hardwood floors separate at the seams. Woodwork and furniture shrink, warp and crack. Wallpaper peels at the edges.

Musical instruments are damaged. Desert-dry indoor air literally pulls moisture out of wooden musical instruments, which can cause them to shrink, crack and go out of tune.

Static shocks "zap" you and sensitive equipment. By maintaining indoor relative humidity at 35 percent or higher, static shocks are greatly reduced.

You feel colder, even with the thermostat turned up. Dry air makes you feel colder than the actual thermostat setting because evaporating moisture on your skin causes a cooling effect.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 12-28-2004, 02:15 PM:

The Nortec URL, www.humidity.com, worked for me when I posted the message and works for me now. Two different locations, two different operating systems.

Hope it works for you.

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 12-28-2004, 02:58 PM:

Thanks Jeffry, its working now!

For some reason, it wasn't working before

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-28-2004, 04:39 PM:

John is absolutely right... use only evaporative humidifiers. More upkeep and maintenance, but well worth it.

While other types may be OK for general humidification, do NOT use the below for projection booths or for film storage.

STAY AWAY from the atomizing types that spray a micro mist of water. Unless everything is working perfect, including room temp, etc, they will cover everything with "mist"... water.

STAY AWAY from the steam types that boil water to produce steam for the humidification. Unless your water is ***PERFECT*** they will introduce minute mineral particles into the air that also LOVES to collect as dust on film and equipment. Even if installed in the HVAC system, the particles still get through the filters.

>>> Phil

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-29-2004, 08:40 PM:

I have a similar question(sort of) so rather than starting a new thread I'll just ask it here.

Would an evaporative cooler work? As the air is taken in through the back and sides of the unit, it is run through long shavings of some sort of coated wood, which have water dripping through them to cool the air, then the air is blown out the front of the unit. The reason I ask, even though we have humidifiers that work just fine in there right now, is that it works WONDERS at cooling down a room and we currently have a/c problems in projection(which is usually what happens when you run a/c vs. humidifiers, it's a battle and someone has to lose). If we could run the evap cooler then it would not only be cooler but it would help with the humidity as well. I'm getting rather sick of 83 degree+ projection, it makes it miserable to stay in the booth which is where we need to be if we want to get any work done. As it is now people stay on the side with problems to thread and start, then run for the cold air outside the booth as soon as they are done. Besides, filling one big evaporative cooler on each side seems a lot simpler than filling 5 or 6 smaller units and having the a/c fixed on a bi-monthly basis, we also have a higher chance of projectionists actually filling this one, as some people wont carry around 5 gallon jugs of water from unit to unit to fill them when needed, and as a result they run dry frequently.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 12-29-2004, 09:21 PM:

An evaporative cooler and an evaporative humidifier are much the same animal, air is passed over some substrate that is wet, and the water evaporates into the air, taking with it the latent heat of evaporation, thus cooling the air a bit.

But, these technologies work best when the air is dryest, the drier the air the more water it can absorb, and thus the greatest chilling effect. Leave the thing in a sealed small room for a few hours, like a small booth overnight, the humidity gets up to 90%+, effectively the air is saturated with water, so no more evaporation can take place, and thus there is no cooling effect at all.

What you really want is a computer room air confitioning system, whih can maintain both temperature and humidity, but they are (a) expensive, and (b) generally far too big for a booth, "small" units are 40KW ...

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-29-2004, 09:34 PM:

We would most likely use our current system, which is(ideally) that all of our humidifiers are filled at the end of each night and turned off. Each of the booths slowly loses humidity down to about 30% overnight(the a/c is set higher by the computer at night when the building is "unoccupied" even though we're usually still stuck there for some reason). In the morning the projectionists get there usually an hour and a half to two hours before the first show, so there is time for the humidity to increase back to the 50-60 range. I think I will talk to our engineering department about replacing the 10-12 little generic piece of shit humidifiers we have with a couple of evaporative cooler units. It would be much easier all around and the booth wouldn't be so damn hot.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 12-30-2004, 02:00 AM:

so is it ok for the film to be constantly cycling from low to high humidity like that?

carl

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 12-30-2004, 02:20 AM:

I'd have thought humidity cycling would fall into the "not recommended" category. Hopefully, JP will be along with the right answer soon.

Of course, you could fit a humidistat, which works for humidity like a thermostat works for temperature, and try and maintain a reasonably constatish humidity.

Like (quick google search) this: http://www.greenair.com/humidistat.htm

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-30-2004, 05:44 AM:

Maintaining a CONSTANT level of relative humidity is the best plan, as film changes curl with changing humidity. Most "whole house" evaporative console humidifiers have a humidistat, that can be set to maintain a constant humidity throughout the day. Again, try to keep the humidity in the range of 50 to 60 percent RH, as measured by an accurate gauge.

A quick way to judge proper humidity without a gauge is to hold up a fresh free-hanging strip of print film. The film should "cup" just slightly, with the emulsion side at the bottom of the "cup" ("positive curl"). Excessive curl is a sign of being much too dry, "negative curl" (film curled with the base side at the bottom of the "cup") is a sign of too much moisture.

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-31-2004, 12:38 AM:

Humidity in our booth has been a problem for a very, very long time. There is a chance that keeping the evaporative cooler on the low setting during the nighttime, and leaving the doors to the booth open could keep it in the right spot, but it will have to be the result of trial and error.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-31-2004, 08:17 AM:

If you're seriously considering that route, do it right. Get a hygrometer (relative humidity meter) and interwire it with a thermostat (hygrostat?) and have it control the unit. You might want to have a professional HVAC installer do this (indeed, regulations/code may require it).

--jhawk

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 01-01-2005, 03:22 PM:

We use the VAPAC wall mounted humidifiers in our booths, but I can't exactly reccomend them right now. Their menu system is a dog to get through, and the canisters have to be decalcified in what seems to be too often. When they work, they put out the vapor though

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-01-2005, 08:06 PM:

With the massive airflow through most booths because of the lamp exhausts it's going to be an uphill battle to do much in the way of humidity control. That's why lamps should be ducted for inlet as well as exhaust. Would help make better dust control possible too.

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 01-01-2005, 11:23 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
If you're seriously considering that route, do it right. Get a hygrometer (relative humidity meter) and interwire it with a thermostat (hygrostat?) and have it control the unit. You might want to have a professional HVAC installer do this (indeed, regulations/code may require it).

I should probably finish working on the filmguard situation and the exit lighting before I work too hard on trying to get them to pay for an installer, but hopefully the a/c will break enough in the next couple of months to force them to look towards an alternative.