Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Has Anyone Used Jack Roe Test Films?

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2004, 09:41 PM:

With the poor (almost non existant) availability of SMPTE test film materials Jack Roe has made their own Buzz track and other test films. Has anyone used these films and or compared them to the SMPTE materials?

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-28-2004, 09:48 PM:

nope didn't know they had any there web site only list SMPTE test films
for cutting appertures for years I used my ownequivelent of 35PA (that showed just the common sized lines)that I had an optical house prepare and then verify the finnished paltes against smpte 35PA

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 12-30-2004, 03:32 PM:

Cant believe there is a shotage of Buzz track as it is the one of the most used films for A chain set ups.
A collegue just ordered some 70mm line up direct from SMPTE no problem, they just made it to order, presume they would do the same for the more used 35mm

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-30-2004, 07:46 PM:

70-PA is duplicated film.

P35-BT (Buzz Track) is camera original film as it is currently made (it is actually a photographed target just like RP-40). The same source makes both films so if there is a 35-PA shortage, then there could quite possibly a P35-BT shortage.

Steve

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-30-2004, 08:24 PM:

How do they do photograph that type of target

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 01-01-2005, 12:22 PM:

They should get off there ass and get some work done, as there is obviously a need at present

Darren

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-01-2005, 06:39 PM:

Its a bit funny as when you call SMPTE about test films or to chack availability they ask you to call or e-mail some people over in France to bug them about making it. Not very good for a supposed professional organization!!

We did recevie a sample of the Jack Roe stuff. The only difference I see is that its recorded with different frequencies from what SMPTE is using. Initial checkout of it on an optical comparator looks very good too. So at least now there is a second choice.

Mark

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-02-2005, 06:34 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Its a bit funny as when you call SMPTE about test films or to chack availability they ask you to call or e-mail some people over in France to bug them about making it.

Many of the SMPTE test films were made by Stan D. of DEL in Ridgefield Connecticut. Has the vendor changed?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-02-2005, 12:00 PM:

I don't know John but I will post that e-mail address here on Monday since SMPTE is giving it out. Either the source has changed or the gal at SMPTE doesn't know what she is talking about. We have had it on order for about 5 months now which IMHO is ludicrous for a standards organization.

Mark

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-02-2005, 04:35 PM:

Wait...P35-BT (buzz track) is done on the same apparatus that produces 35-PA, a pin-registered camera?

I thought we had in the past discussed alignment issues with 35-PA being called into question because projectors are edge-registered. One would think this would be even more of an issue for buzz track, no?

It seems odd that SMPTE would have put all this effort into creating 35-PL (Theatrical Projection Leader) if the existing useful test films aren't being handled. Do the test films fall under a particular committee (e.g. P3)? Who's the current chair?

--jhawk

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-02-2005, 05:11 PM:

Yes, Stan photographed the Buzz track target to create the audio test film. Ever noticed that each frame now has its label and that there is a slight overlap?

I don't believe it is the same film stock though. The camera was never in question for 35-PA...it was the film stock's slitting and perforation process.

Magenta 35-IQ has always been steady and uses the same camera.

Steve

Posted by Dave Bevilacqua (Member # 2039) on 01-03-2005, 07:37 PM:

Mark, thanks for the review of the new "Buzz" Track. We have already gone thru our initial stock of 500ft! We have also produced a 9kHz test film for the few people that need that as well. Both are polyester based and sold in 10' sections so you don't have to shell out a fortune for a single loop.

Dave Bevilacqua
Jack Roe USA Inc.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-03-2005, 11:51 PM:

Hi Dave,

Yea, it seems to work just fine and I'm glad there is a second source now. One HAS to wonder if Stan D and his pin regestered wonders are even still around..... or perhaps the chair of that department was relegated to an antique store or something.

The film industry has had way too many long waits over the years for such a simple thing!!

Thanks!
Mark

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 01-07-2005, 08:13 PM:

Mark you tried this new Buzz Track from Jack Roe & it seems to work fine...we are in dire need of this film, I am down to about 20' of Buzz from SMPTE....where can we get this ??? Thanks for the tip...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-07-2005, 10:00 PM:

Don,
You order it from the man two posts above. Unfortunately he underestimated the amount he needed and is also out but he will have more mid January. I am also down to about 20 feet of SMPTE bizz and am saving it for an upcomming install.... but the Jack Roe stuff works just fine.

Mark

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-08-2005, 01:12 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Initial checkout of it on an optical comparator looks very good too.

How does that machine look and work?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-08-2005, 09:43 AM:

The optical comparator is pretty muchn the standard of the industry for critical measurements. LAVezzi for instamnce uses a video optical comparatoe which is fully corrected for abberations and lives in a temperature controled climate to ensure very high accuracy.

Here is a schpeil on optical comparators you might find enlightning.

http://www.qualitydigest.com/may02/html/optcomp.html

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-10-2005, 10:58 AM:

When measuring dimensions on the film (either optically or mechanically), be sure to maintain the standard conditions of 20 degrees Celsius (68 F) and 50% relative humidity. Film changes dimensions slightly as temperature and humidity change:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h1/baseP.shtml#characteristics

quote:
Dimensional Change Characteristics
Motion picture film dimensions are influenced by variations in environmental conditions. The film swells during processing, shrinks during drying, and continues to shrink at a decreasing rate throughout its life, to some extent. This is generally not significant if the film is properly stored.

These dimensional changes in film are either temporary (reversible) or permanent (irreversible). Temporary dimensional changes are caused by a modification in the moisture content or the temperature of the film. The extent of both temporary and permanent size alterations is largely dependent upon the film support. However, since the emulsion is considerably more hygroscopic than the base, it can have a marked influence on dimensional variations caused by humidity. Permanent shrinkage of film on cellulose triacetate support is usually due to loss of residual solvents or plasticizers and, to a slight extent, the gradual elimination of strains introduced during manufacture or processing. ESTAR Base has no residual solvent or plasticizer and absorbs less moisture than cellulose triacetate; consequently, its size changes due to aging are less.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-10-2005, 07:53 PM:

John,
We were not measuring the film base dimensions, just comparing the sound track dimensions and both films were at the same temperature when it was done.

Mark

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-10-2005, 09:49 PM:

I meant if you were comparing the dimensions to those stated in a SMPTE standard or RP, you need to measure at the standard conditions of 20 Celsius and 50%RH.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-10-2005, 11:01 PM:

quote: John Pytlak
I meant if you were comparing the dimensions to those stated in a SMPTE standard or RP, you need to measure at the standard conditions of 20 Celsius and 50%RH.

Yes, I agree totally. But it also shows that thay are the same size at normal room temperature which they will be used at. Its also two dofferent film stocks albeit with the same perfs.

Mark