Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Strong Pedestal Question

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-09-2005, 08:12 AM:

We have two of these Strong Pedestals (picture from a post by Steve K)

I need to readjust the image position on the screen but don't quite understand the adjustment assembly design. The large threaded rod obviouslly adjusts the table up and down by the turning the nut. But then behind it is a smaller threaded rod with its own nut that is clamped to the cross bar. What does this do and why is it needed? It looks to me as if someone adjusted the main, larger assembly without adjusting the smaller rod and now the smaller rod is slightly bent (the one in the other pedestal is not bent so I am assuming bent is wrong). I loosened the smaller rod and nut (which was no easy task trying to get in there with a wrench) so that it has no tension on it. With that, the larger nut adjusts the table and thus the image position without any problem. So what's the function of the smaller rod? I don't see it.

IMHO, the whole thing is poorly designed to begin with. To get at the large nut on the adjusting rod, you have to open the control panel (which, if you want to keep an image on the screen to see what you are doing, is AC live), push it out of the way but if it is wired tightly with little slack, it won't swing all the way open, so you have to avoid electrocution while working with a big metal wrench right in that vacinity. Then, they put the adjusting rod and nut in tight against the metal side of the pedestal so that the jaws of the wrench can't properly fully engage the nut, so you wind up making little turns instead of being able to make a proper turn of the nut. This causes the wrench to slip on the nut and cause scrapes and scarring of the nut.

I know you only need to make this adjustment very rarely, but still, it doesn't have to be such a chore if it were better designed. Gimme Simplex's nice big ole adjusting wheel any day.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 01-09-2005, 11:47 AM:

You have a Ballantyne "VIP" pedestal and it's got the 3 takeup spindles option.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-09-2005, 03:15 PM:

IIRC, Ballantyne was originally a commercial deep-fat fryer company...They shouldv'e stuck to that since all thier projection products are [bs]

That VIP pedestal was used a lot in screening rooms, the control system was a major pain to work on...and poor design for that application anyway, since the use of multiple formats makes readily adustable elevation and pan mandatory!!

Emil Poggi from Strong could probably tell you what that smaller rod is for..I think he's still with Rydt Entertainment in Beverly Hills...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-09-2005, 08:25 PM:

Tony,
Actually Ballantyne was originally a Projector/sound system company not a deep fryer manufacturer. The deep fryer thing came along later on. Gord has a hilarious story about a theatre reseiving the deep fryer(on opening day)and the checken restaurant getting the Ballantyne projector [Big Grin]

. But I do agree with you 100% about the lack of quality of their stuff. The part I hate about those interlock machines is the stupid Moviola clutches they stole/adapted into it.... those were not designed for turning a full 2000' house reel and can barely do so! That base is deplorable too... weighs a ton because of the steel bottom plate but in many ways is still not very rock solid.

BTW: Thats one of Oprah's projectors in the photo.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-09-2005, 10:41 PM:

No. the ones we have are not exactly like the one pictured....I grabbed the pic just as a reference. Ours only has a single take-up. And yes, it is a beast. And you would think that a thing whose major purpose in life is to hold the projector head rock steady and to adjust it head up and down (is there any pedestal that can also do left and right?) would make that adjustment a simple task. It is anything but simple, hacking away at the big adjustment nut with a plumbers wrench, and slipping off it and nearly ramming the metal handle into live AC connections.

Also, the takeup belt in this thing must be sized to whatever tilt you settle on. In other words, since the take-up belt on one end rides the soundhead pulley which moves up and down as you adjust the tilt, and the other end is around the take-up spindle which, mounted in the base and DOESN'T move at all, then raising the projector tilt tightens the belt; lowering the tilt loosens the damn belt. It's stupid.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 01-09-2005, 11:33 PM:

The Tom Moyer Luxury Theatres circuit here in the Pacific northwest bought tons of those VIP pedestal projection packages from Ballantyne in the late 1970's and early 1980's. There's hundreds of those puppies floating around Washington and Oregon states.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-10-2005, 03:16 AM:

The Simplex LL-1 (aka "Heavy Duty") allowed for Left/Right adjustment as well as Up/Down. It also came with a bubble level standard too for precise leveling.

Steve

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 01-10-2005, 10:02 AM:

Hey Steve, I seem to recall that there was a model of the RCA or Brenkert pedestals that also had left-right adjustments.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-10-2005, 10:16 AM:

Ya gotta love Simplex.

I worked a theatre years ago that had a makeshift deal with two off-center cams with handles that were attached to the back leveling screws on the Simplex pedestal. They were there so that when you turned the handles, the off center cam would push against the foot and move the whole projector over slightly. To get it back, would go to the other foot and turn that cam handle. The projectionist told me the devised them for running the original mag-only CinemaScope to compensate for the different centerline. That would also be useful for silent films.

Luckily the Simplex 35 turret allows for left-right adjustment of the lens so that I can run silent films and shift the centerline that way. In the big theatre where we have XL single lens heads, it's not nearly as elegant....in there the mechanism for making centerline adjustment is me, a crowbar and a guy on stage yelling, "A little more, a little more."

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-10-2005, 10:30 PM:

I prefer the VIP bade over the simplex
the simplex had very poor allowances for moving the lamphouse to get good alignment
The VIP bases have always given good perfomance up here
THe control system was often not from ballantyne in many of those double system installs but from a 3rd party

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 01-11-2005, 01:32 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
The Simplex LL-1 (aka "Heavy Duty") allowed for Left/Right adjustment as well as Up/Down. It also came with a bubble level standard too for precise leveling.

Is this the LL-1? It's got all that.

Wing-headed big threaded rod for lateral adjustment.

quote: Frank Angel
In the big theatre where we have XL single lens heads, it's not nearly as elegant....in there the mechanism for making centerline adjustment is me, a crowbar and a guy on stage yelling, "A little more, a little more."

It's more elegant than percussive realignment with the precision adjustment tool.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-11-2005, 01:52 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Tony,
Actually Ballantyne was originally a Projector/sound system company not a deep fryer manufacturer. The deep fryer thing came along later on. Gord has a hilarious story about a theatre reseiving the deep fryer(on opening day)and the checken restaurant getting the Ballantyne projector .

Mark: Thanks, I stand corrected. [Big Grin]

I just finished a room with the "new" generation bases. They are heavy, the soundheads (the dreaded "no-stars") don't line up with the mounts about half the time, and the lamphouse "cradles" are a royal pain in the ass to align, even with Strong Lamphouses. The take-ups, like you said, can't handle 2k reels, on and on and on......and adding insult to injury is the price of these glorified pieces of crap!!

Oh, and both projector heads have the worklights and framing lamps miswired - they only come on with the doors CLOSED!! [Mad]

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 01-11-2005, 02:16 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
mechanism for making centerline adjustment is me, a crowbar and a guy on stage yelling, "A little more, a little more."

\

Ah.. you need one of these on your base! Simplex LL-3, with side to side ajustment lever! No hard pushing here; just lightly press the lever with one hand and they glide where you want them. Were they sold this way? I've never seen pictures of this option on a Simplex base before.

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 01-11-2005, 04:10 PM:

WOW Dan, thanks for the memories, I haven't seen that in years, I first started as a projectionist in 1970 & we had those type of bases, we use the lever to adjust the picture from Flat to Scope...the theatre I started at had those bases with Super Simplex & Peerless lamps, the booth was on the third level (two large balconys)the machine was tilted 45 degrees....thanks for memory lane....

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-11-2005, 06:04 PM:

Awesome!!