Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Using Cinema processors @ Home

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Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 01-10-2005, 10:37 AM:

Albeit eccentric and ridiculous, how would this actually sound. Say I had a HUGE family room in a house and I wanted to waste a ton of money and have a CP200 or CP650 to run my CDs and movies...would it be a pain in the ass to do and sound like ass or the opposite? It would look cool and cost way too much, but I'm just curious.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-10-2005, 11:13 AM:

I don't think you would get any better performance than you would with a typical Dolby Digital home receiver. CDs only have two channels for stereo, so there's really no point in pumping it through a system to get "fake surround." Then again, I'm not really an expert, but I'm smart enough not to blow $$$ on a cinema processor to play CDs.

Maybe if I was a pop star I could justify rediculous expenses. [Wink]

=TMP=

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 01-10-2005, 11:36 AM:

Unless you were planning to run 35mm films at home, these processors would not do anything but look impressive. Sound wise, good quality consumer equipment would sound better at less cost.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 01-10-2005, 01:16 PM:

I should clarify...it would be for running 35mm and CDs and also DVD-Audio and stuff like that. I mean a big room too, like one that would benefit highly from equalization. I don't think I would have the funds ever to do this, just wondering.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-10-2005, 02:40 PM:

..yep, save your money and use the better home 5.1+ stereo units that you can find at "Best Buy" "Ultimate Electronics" "Circuit City", et.al. for the DVD audio/video thing.

But, if you're gonna to get crazy with 35mm presentations, you can cut corners with BACP SR-D digital readers and PanaStereo processors - a bit less money for the same quality.

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 01-10-2005, 02:59 PM:

That's what I run at home for my 'home cinema'. I have a CP200 and a Sony SDDS box, but that's mainly for 35mm. I do run a DVD player into the CP200 (and some satellite receivers) for a cheapo LCD projector on occassion as well.. but for regular DVD/TV watching I have a 32" HDTV in my living room with a Yamaha RX-V650 home theater processor/receiver.

All depends on what your planning on doing. If your gonna run film, you need a film processor... but running home theater stuff thru it is a pain in many cases. Tho some of the newer boxes by Dolby, Smart, Ultrastereo, etc make it easier to hook up multichannel non-film type things. Tho you'll need in most cases an external DTS or AC3 processor for your DVD Player to feed into the cinema processor.

If your not planning on running film much, then I"d just go for a consumer setup. Most decent consumer setups have inputs for each channel (not just left/right) so in theory you could buy a nice consumer system if your mostly watching TV/DVD's and then run a lower cost or older cinema processor into that for watching 35mm.

--chris

[ 01-10-2005, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Brad Miller ]

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 01-10-2005, 03:08 PM:

If you are going to be running 35mm at home, then a theater processor is the way to go. While you can run analog Dolby Stereo (A/SR) through a consumer pro-logic unit, you will not get the benifit of noise reduction, and as a result less than full dynamic range.

On the other hand, DVD (and VHS) Dolby Pro-Logic is not encoded with Dolby Noise Reduction, so you need to make sure that you obtain a theatre processor that will allow you to process the SVA stereo without Dolby noise reduction.

It is my understanding that consumer Dolby Digital and Theatre Dolby Digital uses different coding schemes (experts, correct me if I am wrong), so you would not be able to decode DVD Dolby Digital with a theater unit. Same for DTS.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-10-2005, 03:37 PM:

They do use different standards, but the CP650 understands the consumer type if you have the EX module which also houses external digital media capabilities.
A lot of consumer receivers/amplifiers look cool too.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-10-2005, 03:51 PM:

Or you can just get a DVD player with a built-in decoder and separate outputs for each channel. Connect it to the format 10 input on the processor and voila. Obviously, this won't work if you already have a DA20 or something for the film setup. Something like the CP650 would be ideal for a mixed film/video setup because of the wide array of formats that it understands without having to be customized.

For music listening, don't bother. For amusement value, I tried this with my CP65, but the sound quality was noticeably worse than with a standard consumer-grade stereo receiver, and most processors don't have enough inputs to accommodate a typical home stereo (have you ever seen a phono input on a Dolby processor, for example?).

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-10-2005, 04:07 PM:

Yes. The CP500 and the CP650 have them.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-10-2005, 04:14 PM:

The problem with using a commercial cinema processor is that ya can't decode the DVD/LD/Video sound without having the expensive DMA8 Digital Media Adapter or the CP-650 for the video format sound decoding.

In my livingroom "theatre", I used a CP-500 and DTS-6D for 35mm feeding into a modified Pioneer VSX-09TX 6-channel A/V Receiver. This receiver is a 5x 100watt/channel + sub out to a remote Power Amp. A Dolby & DTS processing receiver with Optical/AC3RF/PCM/etc digital inputs and THX processing and certification.

Since it had no 6-channel direct inputs, and since I ***cannot*** stand NOT to modify anything, I added the discrete 6-channel inputs for the cinema system.

While "pricey" if bought new, they go for about $600-700 on eBay.

I'm sure there are newer models available that already have discrete 6-channel inputs; I'm totally happy with the 09.

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 01-10-2005, 04:17 PM:

Phono? What's Phono? [Smile]

Actually the CP200 has 3 nonsync inputs which is fairly useful. I have one going to a computer for mp3 playback and the other 2 going to commercial satellite equipment. The sound is pretty good, tho I would like to figure out a better way to get them routed thru the matrix... or maybe just left/right instead of that funky blend they do to center/surround. One thing I do rig up for the mp3's is before sending the signal into the CP200 it goes thru a cheapo EQ that has some psychoacoustic type 'enhancers' which help compensate for the EQ settings in the CP200 which are tailored for film playback and not music.

--Chris

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-10-2005, 04:18 PM:

Chris, "Phono" is for cool people. You know, those of us that like vinyl... Ummm, to listen to, not wear. [Wink]

>>> Phil

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 01-10-2005, 04:24 PM:

Heh, yes yes, I know. [Smile]

I got one of those things around here somewhere... havn't used it in ages. Just havn't found a reason to play my Girls Girls Girls album lately. [Smile]

As for the expensive digital sound adapter, I just use a consumer off the shelf decoder and feed that in. Or you can take Scott's advice and get a DVD player that has the full set of outputs on the back. I personally like my external decoder because you can set which mode you want it to playback in, plus it's got a few inputs on it so it serves as a switch between my DVD player and my Roku Media Player for sound.

--Chris

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-10-2005, 04:30 PM:

Or you use the new USL JSD-80 which does analog 35mm, external digital and there is an optional module for AES/EBU and AC3 bit streams.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-10-2005, 05:26 PM:

Phil, that's on sexy looking machine, but only S-video....no component inputs? And then there's the problem I have with Pioneer itself. I swore I would never EVER purchase anything from them again. True, their units have the specs and do perform -- when they work -- but consumer beware should any of their hi-end, highly sophisticated components go south; you probably will not be able to ever get them repaired. I had their top of the line, state-of-the-art LaserDisc player at the peak of the LD technology. It began failing and I sent it to one of their "Authorized Service Centers" (what a joke -- it was a "TV and Appliance Repair" store front shop. They told me two months later that they simply couldn't repair it. Of it went to a second ASC (recommended to me by Pioneer). A month later they admitted that they couldn't fix it either. Off it finally went to Pioneer's own "Owned and Operated" repair center and, you guessed it -- THEY couldn't repair it AND because it wound up being sent after the warrantee ended, they wouldn't replace it. This was a $1,100 unit and $1,100 of mine down the toilet. My slogan after this ordeal? "I won't go near Pioneer!"

Anyone know if anyone makes an AV control center that would be the equivalent of the old stereo system preamps -- i.e., control centers that rely on external amps rather than having built-in amps? I have a sweet sounding, kick-ass PhaseLinear power amp (350w RMS per channel) for my front channels and a QSC (200w per ch) for the surround, neither of which I will never give up. Buying an AV Control Center with hefty power amps incorporated is a waste for me.

I intend hooking up a CP55 to this system, once I decide on exactly what A/V Control Center I want, should be a piece of cake since any A/V unit today will have the needed 6 audio channel inputs which will accommodate the outputs from any cinema processor. On the other hand, I wouldn't go the other way around, that is, I wouldn't try using a CP to handle all the stuff your home theatre will be expected to accommodate.

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 01-10-2005, 06:39 PM:

ADCOM makes (or at least used to) what they consider 'processors' which do not have an amp. Multiple inputs, etc, line level outputs for all channels. They do this so that you can pick/choose the appropriate amplifier for your situation. However, don't think that because they don't have built in amps that they are less expensive. [Smile]

--Chris