• Method 1: stick one layer of splicing tape across the base side of the film where the motor and over cues would normally be. Instead of watching for the mark, listen for the 'click' as the tape goes through the gate, as your cue. When rewinding each reel for the last time, peel the tape off. This would be my first choice, but if your booth is very noisy and depending on what projectors you have, you might not be able to hear the clicks very easily. And if your print is totally shagged and has lots of joins in it anyway, you might get confused as to which click is the one to act on. If in doubt, experiment with a loop of scrap film before trying it with an audience.
• Method 2: very lightly make diagonal slashes on the base side of four consecutive frames, where the cues would normally be, using a white Chinagraph pencil. Unless the image is very dark you'll see these as easily as lab cues. This is not ideal, because the audience will see them too - they'll be more noticeable than proper cues. But if there's no other option, it should get you out of trouble. When rewinding each reel for the last time, rub them off gently using a lint-free cloth. They should come off without leaving any trace that they were there.

 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-13-2005, 12:22 PM:
 
What I sometimes do is to make dots with a spirit based 'permanent' pen on the base side of the film. If I'm going to run the print several times then I sometimes cover them with tape to prevent them rubbing off. After the last show they can be removed with a drop of alcohol on a cloth.

Is this a normal release print, or an 'archive' one? If the latter you should avoid doing anything irreversible to it without the permission of the owner.

If the corner of the frame is dark, then any form of ink or pencil cues may be difficult to see. In this case you have three options:

Leo's method one.

Put ink or pencil cues elsewhere on the frame.

Scribe cues.

The first is the best option if you can do it.

The second avoids permanently marking the print, but you have to be careful to remember, and to make sure that anyone else running the print knows, that the cues are in a non-standard place, e.g. in the bottom right, or top left corner.

If you have to scribe cues then you should use a proper marker; roughly hand scribed ones, which vary in size, shape and position from frame to frame, look terrible.

If you get a print which has cues, but they're in the wrong place, either because somebody has done it wrong, or because frames have been lost at the end of the reel, if you possibly can, avoid making new cues in the correct place; use the existing ones, and adjust your starting frame, and changeover timing, to compensate.

Write down details of the cues on the film sheet, as a reminder to yourself, and make sure any other projectionist reads them. e.g.

Motor cue: scribed circles, 5 frames late

Changeover cue: black printed dots, 2 frames early.

If you find that somebody has made multiple sets of oversized, hand scribed cues all over the print, say something very unpleasant about them!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-13-2005, 06:48 PM:
 
Small "Avery Dots" also work for removable visible cues. The click tab is the slickest (Leo described it above), if there aren't splices around the cue area since it is "cueless" to the audience.

Steve
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-13-2005, 06:58 PM:
 
Leo's first method is the best, but another one that works very well is to lay a piece of Artist's tape over the inboard sprockets and punch it with the splicer. This creates a white visible cue easily seen by looking into the upper loop of the projector running. Only problem with this is that some projectors are too hard on the film for this to hold up for more than a few shows, and some booths require you to be standing by the incoming projector's controls.
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 01-14-2005, 01:24 AM:
 
Making those click strips with a bit of masking tape attached & perforated on the sprocket edge is an old, old method, & has been used for daily runs in changeover houses. They'll make enough noise to be heard. As Brad says, if the projector is hard on film, they'll degrade, but if you're running garden-variety Simplexes or Century's, they should hold up fine. Just before running them would be a good excuse to check the gate band tension with the regularly-done cleaning of the bands, runners, rollers, sprockets, sound drum, etc. in the film path.

Edit:
I just discovered there is no manual for the Clint Phare marker in the manuals section, & am emailing a scan of the original origami-folded instructions immediately to Brad. Do they expect people to just look at this complicated device & guess how it works?

[ 01-14-2005, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: William Hooper ]
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-14-2005, 04:33 AM:
 
..I used to use an X-acto knife with a new blade and actually draw in the tiny circles in the position of the film where the cues needs to be (this was with prints that were well hammered to where both cuemarks were completely gone...)

Or...in my training days, was to take that X-acto knife and acutally draw around the black dotted cue marks so I can see them better when I was a projectionist at a D.I. with a 400 ft throw and a somewhat small screen - kinda hard to see those marks that far away.

-Monte
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-14-2005, 04:56 AM:
 
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that black, printed cues on prints seem to be gettng bigger, and further in from the corner of the frame. They can look really ugly, especially on scope prints.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-14-2005, 05:05 AM:
 
...I've noticed that also, especially with the Scope prints - just a bit bigger than needed. Possibly, that the exhibitors want to move the cues back to the edge more. For remember when the cues for the Scope prints, and not to long ago, looked liked they were almost right center of the picture - for theatres with cropped (2.00/1 and less) ratioed screens?

So, to compensate for the cropped ratioed screens, it looks like by moving the cue more right, is to make them bigger so they can still be seen upon changeover.

-monte
 

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Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 01-14-2005, 05:18 AM:
 
Many years ago when it was only changeovers, I used to cut square cues from black coloured selotape which always looked neat and kept firmly in place without oozing. These could be easily seen on the darkest of scenes. I would do the same today but also try Steve's small 'Avery Dots'.
 

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Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 01-14-2005, 09:21 AM:
 
I never use ink or any scratching implement other than a proper cue marker. One method, similar to the avery dots, is to use letraset graphic tape. I think it is discontinued, but a lot of graphic supply stores still have stock. You can get clear tape with black dots, and they work rather well, and come off fairly cleanly. A little film cleaner will clean off any residue, but I usually don't see too much. That is a trick that Frank Angel passed along.
 

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Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-14-2005, 12:31 PM:
 
Patrick, is this a European film?
 

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Posted by Patrick Matthews (Member # 2705) on 01-14-2005, 02:40 PM:
 
Brian,

Actually it is a Korean film released through Tartan films which I believe is in the U.S. I ran it yesterday and used the tape method and I could identify the sound as it went through the machine so that method is the one which I think will work best for me. Thanks.
 

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Posted by Gunnar Johansson (Member # 1661) on 01-14-2005, 05:05 PM:
 
My mentor once told me about a method he used once at a festival when the director was in the audience and wouldn´t stand for any modifications...

We have an automation system with lights up at the first aluminum foil, but it´s a bit slow, so he put aluminum foil at motor start so when the dimmer said it wanted to fade up he killed it to dark and the started motor and shifted... He probably heard the tape as well, and I imagine you could see the cue tape, but it worked... A bit of an ugly trick, but if it gets you through the night without to much impact on the three important things: film, equipment and audience...

//Gunnar
 

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Posted by Dick Twentyman (Member # 2746) on 01-14-2005, 09:57 PM:
 
Here's a way NOT to make cues:-

In the bad old days (around 1950's) we had a cinema here in Geelong, Australia, where the projectionist used to wind a penny into the film pack at the motor start cue and at the changeover cue positions. When the first penny dropped into the spool box - start the motor. When the second penny dropped - changeover. God knows what would have happened if a penny ever managed to slide down through the upper spool box fire trap, or what damage the penny did to the film whilst tightly squeezed between layers. Obviously, this is a method to never be used.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-15-2005, 05:52 AM:
 
Brian, was your question ('was this a European film?') prompted by the possibility that the print may have come from LTC or Éclair? If the original distributor was Metro Tartan this could apply, I guess.

For those in the US, these are two labs in Paris which, for some reason, never seem to put cue dots on their internegs. Given that they supply a large proportion of the prints of arthouse titles circulating in the UK, I found this was a big problem when I'd get prints from part-time venues, arts centres, student film societies - in short, the sort of venue which showed arthouse titles but operated on a shoestring budget and was rarely able to provide a properly trained projectionist or properly maintained equipment. So the ends of reels would get mutilated in all sorts of ways: holes punched out of the print using a puncher bought from a stationery shop, cues scratched on, large amounts of ink, tippex coated on the edge of the film - you name it. Of course this was a vicious circle, because arthouse titles usually only have a very small number of prints in circulation, but the places they go to are the venues most likely to mangle them.

Patrick - any clue on the cans or leaders (Éclair leaders have their lightning flash logo just before the 'start' frame) as to which lab this print came from?
 

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Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-16-2005, 06:26 PM:
 
Yes, I was wondering if the print had come from those French labs or possibly others such as Tobis in Portugal.

There are plenty of Standards governing this area; the mystery is why labs in Europe (outside of the UK) are not following them. There must be a good reason for it...surely they must be aware of the huge problems their policies cause?

BTW obviously it's OK to put temp marks on using the excellent methods described in this thread, IF it's just an occasional task. Problem in Europe is that almost every arthouse title is lacking the cues these days.
 

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Posted by Dominic Case (Member # 1830) on 01-16-2005, 06:43 PM:
 

quote: Dick Twentyman

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When the first penny dropped

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Hence the origin of the phrase, no doubt

Or perhaps, "when the penny dropped, the prjectionist saw the light".
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-17-2005, 02:48 AM:
 

quote: Brian Guckian

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There must be a good reason for it...surely they must be aware of the huge problems their policies cause?

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quote:

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6.2 Motor cue
The motor cue shall consist of black circles or clear
circles, printed from a negative which has had four
consecutive frames marked as shown in figures 6, 7,
and 8 for 16-mm, 35-mm, and 70-mm films, respectively.
The position and dimensions of this mark shall
be as given in table 1. Following the four frames
containing the motor cue, there shall be 172 frames
to the beginning of the changeover cue.
6.3 Changeover cue
The changeover cue shall consist of four frames
containing circles of the same dimensions and position
on the frame as those in the motor cue. Following
the four frames of the changeover cue, there shall be
18 frames to the beginning of the runout section of the
trailer.

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quote: John Pytlak

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If you have to scribe the film permanently, only use a Clint Phare scribing device...

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quote:

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If you have to scribe the film permanently, only use a Clint Phare scribing device to be sure the cues are in the correct location, and the cues should conform to standard SMPTE 301-1999:

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quote: Bruce Hansen

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From the don't try this at home (or at your theater) department: on one film that I saw, someone had used a paper hole punch to punch holes in the film, right in the center of the frame. I guess that the projectionist did not want to miss his changeover cues, no one else missed them either.

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quote: Frank Angel

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why would anyone have to make a permanent scar in the emulsion that will have to be visible on every presentation of that print forever thereafter? Given all the many ways there are to make very visible, REMOVABLE cues to assist change-overs WITHOUT marring the print, and given that most prints, even rep titles will play more platter booths or LP booths for most of its bookings, why add anymore visible garbage, even "professional" scribe markers, if it is not necessary?

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quote: Frank Angel

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Maybe someone else remembers why they are called EK prints.

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Because the "show prints" or prints used for premier events, are usually made on Kodak film.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-21-2005, 12:09 PM:
 
Cool when it's a Fuji Show print and everyone still calls it an EK print! Bet you Kodak guys get a little chuckle out of that! Sorry Fuji.

Oh, and I'll add one other thing to Scott's list; I will always cover (on the base side) any exisiting scribed emulsion cues at the end of a fade-out when one occurs at the end of the reel. There is absolutely no reason why anyone needs to see dancing circles on a totally black screen in order to make a proper change-over. Take the change-over when the screen is totally black. You don't need a glarring white cue to signal it, unless of course you are brain dead.
 

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Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-21-2005, 05:40 PM:
 
Frank said:

quote: Frank Angel

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I would even suggest that the labs forego putting lab cues except that lab cues are the least intrusive (certainly less so than emulsion scribed cues)

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For what it's worth I did a research paper for the BKSTS in England some time ago which examined this whole area in some detail. Several people were kind enough to help me with the work, and the outcome was a recommendation that the various international standards be amended to include the smaller lab cues as an option, where the conventioanl marks were seen as "obtrusive".

(The research showed that some production companies were asking for the cues to be left off as they were felt to be obtrusive...we weren't able to cover other simialr practices in mainland Europe, i.e French labs, etc.)

If anyone's interested the paper is at:

http://www.admin.spoolbox.net/bkstsctc/CueMarks.pdf

I have to say that the BKSTS & SMPTE Committees have some of the finest people around on them and are worth their weight in gold
 

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