Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Simplex PR 1014 oil leaks

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Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 01-19-2005, 03:53 AM:

I have a Simplex PR1014 sitting on top of a SH-7300 sound head( I think the SH stands for SHIT-HOUSE.)How do I stop oil leaking from the main drive on the non-operating side of the projector?The projector is belt driven from the sound head.I dimantled this part recently to replace the gasket and it seems to me that it is designed to leak oil.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-19-2005, 04:35 AM:

Now, have you replaced the belt sprocket as well? You really need a complete seal kit (and depends on which kind of belt - square or round tooth) is needed. A complete kit includes a new belt sprocket, metal gasket cover, cork gasket, rubber oil seal, metal and teflon washers (the teflon washer seals the front end of the sprocket so oil doesn't seep around the main drive shaft and out the front of the sprocket), and locknut.

For the sprocket might be slightly grooved from the old hardened rubber seal in that assembly, and the seal has prob hairline cracks in it as well.

And, it wouldn't hurt to get a new door gasket (and you can use surgical tubing for this - 1/4" surgical tubing..this is what the old XL units used..), which is the newer red tubing material, if you're having seepage problems here.

Course, of all, when removing the door then replacing the door, always wipe both surfaces as dry as possible before closing this surface.

Simplex just sorta goofed up with leakage due to the intermittent assembly having no gasket or "O" ring to seal itself from the mainframe boss. Oil loves to seep around this circular area. They finally got smart with the Millienums by cutting a groove in the intermittent case and placed an "O" ring to seal off the oil seepage that was common for XL machines.

Give this a whirl. - good luck. - Monte

Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 01-19-2005, 06:21 AM:

Thanks Monte
No I haven't replaced the drive sprocket.I have replaced the cover gasket-that seals fine now.I will get the seal kit and then we may be able to run a bit more oil in this machine.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2005, 08:28 AM:

Ian,
Also check the gear cover carefully and see if the tangs under the lock down nuts that secure the door in place are bent and if the door is warped at all. The later heavy duty doors seal much better and generally don't warp. The seal kit will help somewhat but may not solve the leaks totally as these machines have VERY porus castings. The oil literally seeps right through. When we do a rebuild they are powder painted and this process really seals that casting up tighter than a drum and generally stops about 90% of the leaking. New Simplex's are also powder coated by the factory as well. Be sure to install the "o" rings in the kit on the framing shaft as that point is another big leak spot!

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-19-2005, 10:36 AM:

The most common cause of leaking from the main drive area is overoiling. This shaft - until the true sealed version came out - is completely unsealed and would correctly be described as "designed to leak oil" - but just about any oil filled machine will leak oil when overfilled. The "sump" only holds maybe 4 ounces of oil when full with a normal down tilt. The manual lists the proper oil level for various tilt angles; at dead level the oil should be 7/16 above the bottom of the glass sight tube after all oil has drained down - after a few hours of not running. The little black ring should be set to the prpoer oil level as listed in the manual.
The casting can be porous, the rear hatch gasket is notorious for leaking especially after someone overtightens the thumbscrews and bends the tabs (cleaning the body surface and the gasket scrupulously before putting the cover on avoids most leaking), the framing shaft can seep a bit particularly in drive-in installations... but if you see oil tracking down from the drive shaft then I suspect there's too much oil.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-19-2005, 12:04 PM:

If you properly seal up the main drive and get the rear door sealed up...you don't have to worry about over oiling...in fact you don't want to under oil. You never want the main drive seal to run dry...it will over heat, deform then allow oil to seep around it like it wasn't there.

Steve

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-19-2005, 01:37 PM:

True, Steve. If he has a gear drive (SH-7300?) the seal kit lists around $300.00. The belt drive seal kit is a bargain around $100.00. Plus the framing shaft O-ring stuff, pretty cheap but leaking at that shaft isn't a problem on older machines without the seal - as you point out the seal needs a high oil level to be lubricated.
Or he can put in the correct amount of oil for the machines he has. If there's a bad leak that is not due to overoiling, the seal kit won't help anyway.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-19-2005, 03:32 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
in fact you don't want to under oil

...as I had to do an Intermittent rebuild due to underoil at one theatre.

They had the old black XL head and the oil black ,upper level ring was set too low. Machine running and hardly and sometimes never a spray. Then the intermittent assembly froze solid, shredding the fibre gear on the vertical shaft and the drive gears on the assembly, plus snapping the starwheel's star in two. Big time teardown to clean out the chards and almost a complete rebuild with new cam, starwheel, cover and gear replacement.

Can be messy and costly when underoiling. - Monte

Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 01-19-2005, 07:03 PM:

Thanks guys.
I overcome oil leaks from the inspection cover and the framing shaft some time ago.The oil is definitely coming from the main drive shaft.It just seems to me that with the correct amount of oil in the machine it doesn't take long for some to leak out and then the oil spray is not as good as I would like to see it.With a bit extra oil in the machine the oil spray at the top is a lot better(much more oil coming out).BTW I do clean the oil "filter" and it is in the correct position.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-19-2005, 10:40 PM:

Yep, with you adding oil to make the spray more effective, it sounds like a seal kit replacement is in order.

Out of curiosity, where is the oil level at when the machine is at rest on view with the glass?

Is the oil level above the top of the glass, or where it is mentioned in the manual?

I've had to bend down the oil strainer tube a bit lower to really get the end of the draw tube that is within the strainer in the oil reservoir galley. For the pump can really draws the oil up quick where the returning oil can't refill the reservoir fast enough, thus the spurting of the oil at the end of the spray tube if the tube isn't down enough. Then by your adding more oil, the level is above the area of the seal where's it's bad causing the leakage.

Just had to watch out for the strainer not hitting the pump gear when lowering that strainer assembly down a bit.

For reference sakes:

If you get a drippy leak behind the intermittent sprocket, this is where it's possibly coming from.

This crack was caused by some unknown reason. This crack in this intermittent cover cut a slight groove in the starwheel shaft. A rebuild with replacement of both cam and starwheel plus this cover was to remedy this leak.

-Monte

Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 01-20-2005, 05:30 PM:

Monte
This projector does not have the same oil level inspection hole like my other Simplex 35's it has the vertical glass tube on the outside of the front of the projector.We fill the projector untill there is about 20mm of oil up the glass tube,anything higher than that and we get the oil leaking out.

Posted by Matt Zeiner (Member # 1914) on 01-22-2005, 09:15 AM:

We have had excellent luck stopping leaky XL's by removing the Drive-In adapter junction, Connecting a much shorter piece of tubing directly to the oil pump, and dropping the uptake screen as far down into the sump as it will go. Following seal replacement on both sides of the main drive assy and truing up the back cover (and replacing framing shaft o-ring if nec.), you can run with the oil level a bit lower and still maintain excellent lubrication with little chance of oil leaking from either the main drive or rear cover.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-22-2005, 12:57 PM:

Matt, Where the heck you been? Long time no see.....

quote: Monte L Fullmer
This crack was caused by some unknown reason.

Three possible reasons.....

1. Because todays cast iron is vastly inferior to that of yesteryears.

2. The casting may not have been aged at all.... cast iron hardens with age and need some aging to reach best machinability! Freshly poured cast iron castings are almost as soft as alumnium.

3. There may have been a small air bubble at that spot leading to an eventual stress crack.

Mark

Posted by Matt Zeiner (Member # 1914) on 01-22-2005, 01:21 PM:

Hey Mark - Been wicked busy for the last few months. Glad to finally have a bit of a break in the schedule...