Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Home-made gaskets on intermittent?

This is topic Home-made gaskets on intermittent? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 01-25-2005, 06:27 PM:

I have a leaky intermittent mechanism caused by an old gasket. The gasket used to seal the two parts of the mech is now unavailable due to the age of the projector.

What, if anything, could I use to create a good seal on this intermittent?

Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 01-25-2005, 07:30 PM:

Why don`t you tell us the make of the projector so we might intelligently advise you,.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-25-2005, 07:38 PM:

It would still kelp to know what make and model but basically speaking for a movement you'd want extremely thin gasket material similar to whats used on a Simplex or Century. Be sure to polish both surfaces to remove any old gasket material, crud, or corrosion. I use one of those diamond impregnated super fine stones for doing this. Its so fine that it doesn't actually remove any metal, it just cleans things up. This will help you insure a good seal with a new gasket.

Mark

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 01-26-2005, 10:35 AM:

Sorry I omitted the make and model, I thought my question was more of a general question rather than machine specific. Anyway, it's for my portable Philips FP3 which needless to say, you cannot obtain gaskets for anymore. I have tried contacting Kinoton America but they haven't replied to my email.

The wierd thing is, that the gasket that is already there appears to be in good condition. It's not broken/split but where I've had the intermittent apart quite a few times, it has now given up stopping the oil from coming through, which is annoying because the intermittent is now running like a dream!

Where could I obtain the needed blank thin gasket material that I could cut the required shape out of?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-26-2005, 12:38 PM:

Has anyone tried using LocTite 500-series gasketting products for this purpose?

(They make a wide variety, maybe the best would be LocTite 598 Black High Performance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker?).

--jhawk

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-26-2005, 01:22 PM:

Try contacting Peter Hall of Future Projections in London. He has a wide range of second-hand kit and spares in stock - you might be lucky.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-26-2005, 07:19 PM:

quote: Matthew Taylor
I have tried contacting Kinoton America but they haven't replied to my email.

Since you are in the U.K. why on earth you would contact Kinoton USA when you're that close to the Kinoton factory? I was able to get brand new gaskets(from Germnany) for my FP-56 which is even older then the 3. I would suggest contacting Kinoton in GErmany before you write off any original parts availability. Other than this Peter Hall would be your next bet.....

quote: John Hawkinson
Has anyone tried using LocTite 500-series gasketting products for this purpose?

Loctite 515 would work but ya gotta be careful about not using too much. You wouldn't want any cured particles of it to end up travling down the star or cam oil sporals. I've used this before with ok results.
Loctite 515

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-26-2005, 09:06 PM:

Well since you are in the UK why not contact the UK Kinoton agent
Bell theatre supply
They are very reliable supplier

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-27-2005, 04:49 AM:

Link to Bell's website. They should be able to import anything that Kinoton are still making; although I used to find that the price of new Kinoton spares (apart from everyday consumables like FP20 pressure plates and runners) is not for the faint-hearted.

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 01-27-2005, 12:14 PM:

Well, I contacted Bell and they (very promptly) replied that kinoton can't find the part number of the intermittent in their old Philips parts lists, their internal documentation or on their computer but their technicians recommend just using standard gasket material available from a hardware store.

Mark, what is the reason for using really thin material? On the FP3 the gap between the two halves of the intermittent doesn't seem that crucial?

Thank you all for your advice.

P.S. Leo, have also contacted Peter Hall but as yet not received a reply.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-27-2005, 07:27 PM:

Matt,
It depends. If the star and cam are both mounted on the outboard side of the casing a thicker gasket material would be acceptable. However if the star is mounted to the film side half of the casing and the cam on the back(or drive side)half of the caseing then the use of thicker material would mean that there would be less face contact between the radius of the star and cam. If possible you want 100% face contact for best wear ability and strength of both parts.

If you have a photo of the movement that would help alot. I can also "mic" some gasket material in the morning so you would know what thickness to look for. For instance.... a Century gasket is thicker than a Simplex gasket and so on.....

Mark

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-27-2005, 08:20 PM:

Gaskets are generally made from what are called "Steel Rule Dies".

I was working as a Steel Rule Diemaker, but was laid-off after
9-11, as business really took a dump! What was a real disappointment to me was that I was designing some dies for projector gaskets, but the lay-off occured prior to my completing the projects.

In general, steel rule dies are quite inexpensive, work good and can produce thousands of coppies so long as they are not abused.

The major consideration is making the gasket out of the approperiate type of material, not to mention material thickness, which can effect part assembly.

Felpro makes bulk gasket material which is available at many auto parts stores, is made of material that is superior to the ole paper gaskets. Felpro material is also available in many thicknesses.

You may also try taking the part, "temp tacking" the bulk gasket material to it, and tracing/cutting out your gasket with an Exacto-knife/razor blade.

If this proves unsuccessful, then take the part to you local Steel Rule Die Maker. The Die Maker should be able to make a CAD drawing of the needed gasket, which can be based off the part or by using the old gasket as a template. The CAD drawing will then be "plotted" as the die line, which is a template actually used to cut out/fabricate the die board.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Kutler

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-27-2005, 11:07 PM:

Ah er oh.... I think he only needs one gasket.....

Mark

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 01-28-2005, 05:32 AM:

I've used the 'gasket paper' from car accessory stores with success in the past for this purpose, cut it to shaped with a craft knife, and smear very thinly with Hylomar Blue when fitting. Many is the leaky intermittent I have repaired this way when genuine gaskets weren't too hand.

For the record, in the UK, there are now other Kinoton dealers than Bell Theatre Services. Ourselves (Omnex Pro Film) and Future Projections are able to supply and install equipment and parts from Kinoton.

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 01-28-2005, 11:52 AM:

Well, I have just discovered that the oil was not leaking through the gasket after all. It seems that the oil is slowly seeping through between the shaft and the casing where the cam shaft goes out to be driven by the motor. The fit is very snug and I can't see any damage to the shaft or the bush that it goes through. Is there any way of sealing this?

A couple of points to note; This has only started happening since the last time I re-assembled the mech, so I've obviously introduced some problem here. Also, I have put in a much thinner oil (in absence of recommended oil), would a thicker oil stop the leaking?

Posted by David Graham Rose (Member # 1450) on 01-28-2005, 02:26 PM:

Greetings All from a somewhat damp Cambridge

Many years ago I was out in the Falkland Islands servicing an FP3, prior to my appointment here at Cambridge. The machine in question needed a new intermittant gasket, and not having one with me I improvised. I went to the field at the rear of the theatre, and butchered a cow. Using the hide of the beast I fashioned a perfectly servicable gasket which I sealed with some gasket sealant I had in the boot (or trunk, for our friends across the pond) of my Model 'T' Ford.

Later that evening myself and the jolly chaps at the base ate the beast in the form of corned beef, with ample helpings af mashed potato.

Did it work I hear you ask? Well, temporarily, yes. Unfortunately, I failed to soke the hide in formaldehyde prior to installation, and the gasket rotted after a period of 2 months. Having said that, by this time, I had aquired the necessary part from Phillips and replaced with the bona fide item on my next trip.

Amazing what one can do with a Swiss Army knife and a little ingenuity.

And so to bed.

Good Evening

David.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-28-2005, 03:31 PM:

Poor cow (with apologies to Ken Loach)!

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-28-2005, 03:35 PM:

David, if there is no cow at hand, can a dog also be used?

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 01-28-2005, 07:33 PM:

How about having several avariel (winged elves) making intermittent gaskets from skins of dragon wings? Or metal Simplex or Brenkert parts made of glassteel-a metal avariel use to make the blades of their swords