Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: To anyone that has built "Alone in the Dark"

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Posted by Chase Hanson (Member # 2779) on 01-27-2005, 03:15 AM:

I was building this print today, instead of doing my job, and I ran into something that confused me. There was what appears to be about 1-2 seconds of black film with sound at the end of reel 5 and beginning of reel 6. How did you cut (if you platter), those reels? I left what I thought was all the film that had sound on it, because the first frame on reel 6 looks like someone is messing with a breaker. Which would logically explain why you might have no picture but sound.

We havent screened this print yet, which will probably reveal the answer...but I just wanted to get a survey of sorts.

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 01-27-2005, 03:32 AM:

I haven't handled this particular print but did you check for Changeover cues? I can never remember the exact number of frames after the changeover cue the reel ends so I always look at a reel where the end is obvious and count back frames.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 01-27-2005, 05:18 AM:

almost always the soundtrack will continue past the last image frame. of course you wouldn't notice this if the soundtrack in fact consisted of silence at that point, as it often does, or near enough.

if the waveform is irregular enough, you can locate your cuts so as to neither leave out nor duplicate any of the soundtrack. normally this will happen if you cut right after the last frame of one reel and right before the first frame of the next.

you might actually notice that sometimes the soundtracks will be off by a perf or two. nothing you can do about that. if they're off by a whole frame, such that sound is duplicated, leaving an id frame will take care of it. occasionally on a less "mainstream" picture you might find a complete mismatch in the soundtracks at a reel join. oh well.

most likely when you screen you will have repeated audio during the "blackout". if it's just atmospheric noise this might not be apparent. if it's dialogue it will be very apparent.

when we got "the corporation" on 6k's from another theater, there was repeated dialogue, well... monologue, over i believe the 8/9 reel change. iirc this section of the film was black by design and the builder had apparently just included everything with an active track. looking at the cue marks and countdown suggested different cuts, but the soundtracks still didn't match up. i had to cut something like 10 frames in to eliminate the repetition. sometimes you just have to make judgment calls like that.

carl

Posted by Thomas King (Member # 2745) on 01-27-2005, 06:50 AM:

I had something like that once, on another tail I counted back the number of perfs from the end of the feature to the first identifiable part of the tail, checked that it was consistent across tails, and then just counted.

Posted by Cory Isemann (Member # 2517) on 01-27-2005, 07:20 AM:

I didn't notice that, but our print lacked an MPAA rating band at the end.

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 01-27-2005, 11:01 AM:

Just use your Neumade footage/frame counter; it's that easy. [Big Grin]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-27-2005, 11:05 AM:

quote: Greg Routenburg
I haven't handled this particular print but did you check for Changeover cues? I can never remember the exact number of frames after the changeover cue the reel ends so I always look at a reel where the end is obvious and count back frames.

Greg: I note your ID photo with fear for your health and safety. [uhoh]

I hope that xenon lamp is a depressurized sample! If you keep handling xenon lamps without proper safety gear, an exploding lamp is likely the last thing you will ever see! [Eek!]

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-28-2005, 11:14 AM:

That's nothing! A REAL MAN handles a bulb WITHOUT gloves...

15,000 watt at that!
[Wink]

=TMP=

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-28-2005, 01:41 PM:

But you and Dennis Losco had depressurized samples. (I hope! [Eek!]

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-28-2005, 02:08 PM:

Not sure if I understand the original post here as I haven't built or watched 'Alone in the Dark.' Are you talking about a fade out (probably not) or a sudden cut to black that you think wasn't the end of the reel? In either case the best way I've found to determine the proper place to cut is to take a leader from another reel and line up the 'End' mark (for tail) or '2' mark (for header) and then cut in the same place. Thanks to Wolf for the tip.

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 01-28-2005, 05:12 PM:

Thanks for the concern John but yes the bulb was decompressed. I value my eyes too much to risk them on a forum photo. [Smile]