Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New dts AUE files

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-12-2005, 03:11 PM:

Hi everyone

I found that newest DTS disk has .AUE files for reels, plus the trailer .AUD file.

Do you know why? Perhaps the encryption they announced months ago?

Bye
A

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-12-2005, 03:16 PM:

What title? Maybe this is another lame attempt at copy protection?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-12-2005, 04:17 PM:

I believe these are the non-lossy files that the XD-10 can play (with the updated firmware that was distributed last September). A DTS 6D will play the AUD files, the XD-10 will play the AUE files. I'm not sure but the 6AD may also be able to handle the AUE files since it was required to be updated too.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-12-2005, 04:26 PM:

If both files, ".AUD" and ".AUE", are contained on the disk then it can't be a very effective form of copy protection. Assuming ."AUE" is the encrypted version of ".AUD" then having the unencrypted version on the same disk defeats the purpose.

Furthermore, I can't imagine how putting the same information on the disk in two different formats can be productive. Essentially that cuts the space on the disk by approximately half because you're writing the same data twice.

Does the ".AUE" file contain the key(s) needed for the new (supposed) anti-piracy software in the new DTS units to work? i.e.: If the ".AUE" files are not on the disk in the exact location(s), sector for sector, that the computer/software expect them to be then the system assumes the disk is copied and refuses to play.

Don't know for sure. Just guessing.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-12-2005, 04:50 PM:

We're all guessing here Randy. However if the movie in question was the Poo Dump movie at a fabulous running time of 69 minutes, then both versions *could* possibly fit on a 2 disc set. However that is not what Antonio posted...

quote: Antonio Marcheselli
I found that newest DTS disk has .AUE files for reels, plus the trailer .AUD file.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-12-2005, 05:07 PM:

A very long engagement, 2.12 hours.

There are ONLY .AUE files, plus one file for the trailer (r14).

I wasn't able to found any useful information into the file (with an hex editor).

The disk is standard for 6/6D (well, I didn't try the disks, the movie is on a non-dts movie but the player starts correctly with these disks).

Is it possibile that they simply encoded the files that are decoded by the software before passing them through the hardware?

Bye
A

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-12-2005, 07:28 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
However that is not what Antonio posted...

Aah!! I mentally inserted an ampersand in there where one should not be. Therefore, I read:

quote:
I found that newest DTS disk has .AUE files for reels, plus the trailer & .AUD file.

When it should have read:

quote:
I found that newest DTS disk has .AUE files for reels, plus the trailer .AUD file.

(I do that quite a lot, actually. I just usually catch myself. Another topic on another day, perhaps.)

The "E" in ".AUE" must stand for "Encrypted". No?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-12-2005, 09:06 PM:

"must"? Hardly!
E is the letter after D, so clearly "AUE" comes after "AUD."

They've revised the format and seen fit to change the file extension to indicate. Just what is going on, there's no way to know without looking.

--jhawk

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-12-2005, 10:31 PM:

There used to be a time when type and creator codes meant something. T.L.A. file extensions actually resembled the application that created them or had some connection to the kind of data the file contained.

"TVOD" is the creator code for QuickTime Player whereas "ogle" is the creator code for Picture Viewer and "hook" is the creator code for iTunes. Nowadays, there are so many type/creator codes it's hard to know what they all mean, let alone, keep track of them.

Unless you are a developer who works with the codes a lot, how the heck are you to know that "8BIM" stands for Photoshop Elements?

Therefore, the reason I was quick to wrongly infer the meaning of the T.L.A. for the new DTS files.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-13-2005, 08:11 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
I believe these are the non-lossy files that the XD-10 can play

Definately not as there is still only one non lossy XD-10 in operation. It would also fill quite a substantial number of disks for that format and would take as long as several days to load them onto the hard drive..... It takes about 5 to 6 hours just to load the data for a one hour length large format film. Even if it were the non-lossy files for the DTS headers it would be quite a huge file. But it may be something to do with theor captioning or blind person assisted systems.

Mark

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-13-2005, 09:15 AM:

The AUE files does not work anymore with the winamp plugin that can be found on Internet. Finally!

After 120 seconds a noise is mixed with the audio.

I'm happy that DTS found a way to limit the piracy, I hope that it will last for a while!

Bye
A

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-13-2005, 11:29 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
It takes about 5 to 6 hours just to load the data for a one hour length large format film.

There must be something wrong with that computing hardware. It doesn't make sense for hardware to copy data to a hard disc at a much slower rate than the actual playback speed of the audio. I can copy a full 700MB CD image onto my computer's hard disc in only a couple minutes.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-13-2005, 12:27 PM:

Some of the ecinema servers take that long to load a film title as well

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-13-2005, 02:13 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
There must be something wrong with that computing hardware. It doesn't make sense for hardware to copy data to a hard disc at a much slower rate than the actual playback speed of the audio. I can copy a full 700MB CD image onto my computer's hard disc in only a couple minutes.

Yes, but thats 6 channels of totally un-compressed audio at 96khz/24 bit. Man thats ALOT of data! It will no doubt require DVD disks and drives to accomplish it on a regular basis. The XD-10 unit installed here came loaded with the tracks for the current film just to save on time during the install! DTS has promised to reduce the load time but I haven't seem that happen yet. The fact that it works on a standard off the shelf player is great and the fact that DTS has promised to get the load time down is even better.....

I've heard of load times for D Cinema data that are as long as two days!

Mark

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-13-2005, 03:01 PM:

I don't know, I guess still don't understand why the load times are so excruciatingly long. Granted, I know you're dealing with at least several gigabytes of data and tranferring it from an optical disc drive that isn't anywhere near as fast as a hard disc.

Still, it doesn't make sense for that process to take a few hours unless there are other operations happening to the data as it gets transferred. I'm using a four year old Dell PC and it only takes me about 20 minutes to burn a DVD-R disc and less time than that to copy the data off a DVD-R to the hard disc. Do you think there might be some extra authentication stuff going on in that data transfer process?

With those load times being so long, they border on being impractical. I would certainly wonder if there might be some kind of savings made by simply using portable large capacity hard discs for delivering things like D-Cinema content. Cost per gigabyte favors portable hard discs over optical discs.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-13-2005, 04:42 PM:

I assume ther is an un encryption program running that builds the file structure from the raw data
portable hard drives have also been used

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-14-2005, 12:45 AM:

I suspect there's some data decryption / assembly going on during the load.

Mark, what feature is running there, if you don't mind me asking? And does anyone know how far off lossless DTS for first run features is?

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-14-2005, 07:07 AM:

In Italy we showed Terminator 3, Spiderman 2 and Big Fish (all 8ch uncompressed).

Bye
A

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 02-14-2005, 09:27 AM:

All three of those (Spiderman 2, Terminator 3, Big Fish) have SDDS8 tracks. And this 8ch is from DTS? or SDDS?

edit: I didn't see the 'umcompressed' part. but I am still curious about that.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-14-2005, 01:42 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
I would certainly wonder if there might be some kind of savings made by simply using portable large capacity hard discs for delivering things like D-Cinema content. Cost per gigabyte favors portable hard discs over optical discs.

That's the trend, at least for the time being.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-14-2005, 04:08 PM:

DTS 8ch uncompressed. A DVD with the audio was provided.

Bye
A

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-14-2005, 09:59 PM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
And does anyone know how far off lossless DTS for first run features is?

I don't know the compression details about DTS' "lossless" system. However, other audio compression systems that use the "lossless" buzz word will feature a 2:1 data compression ratio. That's the case with Meridian Lossless Packing (the format for high-rez audio on DVD-A). I would suspect that to be the case with DTS' lossless format. Their home CAC format when run at "full bitrate" has a 3:1 ratio, but it still data lossy.

Other kinds of lossless data compression formats typically run at 2:1 ratios as well. ZIP and RAR both run near those levels. The LZW algorithm Adobe Photoshop uses with lossless TIFF images and its own PSD format usually runs at a 2:1 ratio. It should be noted in recent years LZW has been improved to handle solid fields of color in the same manner as the GIF format to dramatically reduce file sizes in some cases. Anyway, that point is just to show the 2:1 thing on file size isn't absolute.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-15-2005, 10:19 AM:

quote: Antonio Marcheselli
DTS 8ch uncompressed. A DVD with the audio was provided.

I can't be the only one thinking this, so I'll just say it:

I WANT THAT! Is it available yet, or still in testing phases? I have an XD10. What else do I need?