This is topic Strange damage on SDDS reader in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007024

---

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 03-14-2005, 01:23 PM:
 
My theater have two Victoria 5 with SDDS DFP R2000 readers
mounted between the upper spool arm and the projector head.
On both readers the black color on the rollers are beginning
to fade away. On some all the way round, on some like dots
here and there.

A real strange thing is, on projector 2´s reader, three of
the rollers have damage like someone has slipped with a screw-
driver or something. It´s almost like the metal has been
chipped away. No one has been near the thing with a tool.
The latest one occoured about a week ago.

Anyone with SDDS readers with the same kind of problem? What
could possibly cause this kind of damage? I just can´t figure
it out.

Thomas

 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-15-2005, 04:32 AM:
 
Hi Thomas,
This is not uncommon at all and is flaking off of the anodize(or hard coat). I have seen this happen eventually on most of the 2000 penthouses rollers. The alignmant of the rollers is very critical and if they are not set at the factory properly all at the same height (exactly) then this uneven wear starts when the anodize wears down and begins to get thin. It happens from the film edge wearing away at the coating. I use a digital height gauge to set them up in our shop and replacement of these rollers by a competant tech is the only way do deal with this. Sony did make an alignment gauge speciffically for setting these up but I trust the height gauge more than I do their tool!

Personally I would get them repaired pretty soon as parts for them are getting somewhat hard to get. You may want to e-mail Robbie Hildago about this. He may be able to at least with the new rollers or good used ones. robbie@cinematech.org Robbie was the Service Manager at Sony for these systems and actually knows then better than the factory does.

Hope this gives you some ideas.....

Mark @ CLACO
 

---

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 03-15-2005, 08:35 AM:
 
Hi Mark,
Thank you very much for your reply. Do you mean poor
alignment really could have caused this damage? It´s
hard to see it on the photo, but it´s not only the
black color gone, but a real "cut" in the metal leaving
sharp edges. Like someone has slipped with a screwdriver.
I have polished it very carefully with a fine grain
sandpaper, but I don´t feel very comfortable using the
reader in this condition. So I don´t at the moment.

Thanks for your advice where to get the rollers. The
question is for how long prints will have SDDS tracks, if
it´s worth the cost of replacing most of the rollers?

Thomas
 

---

Posted by Mike Babb (Member # 1379) on 03-15-2005, 09:42 PM:
 
Any chance a reel dropped on the rollers?
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-15-2005, 10:22 PM:
 

quote: Mike Babb

---

Any chance a reel dropped on the rollers?

---

Definitely not! I can't tell you how many sony rollers I've seen that look like his...... countless literally!

Mark
 

---

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 03-16-2005, 10:30 AM:
 
Mike,
No reels dropped. All three damaged rollers are on the lower part of the reader. One is the 35/70mm roller and the damage is on the 35mm part.

Is it possible the metal is of such low quality, bad splices could cause this kind of damage? What also puzzles me is, it has happened on projector 2 only.

Thomas
 

---

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 03-16-2005, 10:40 AM:
 
70mm SDDS roller
 

---

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 03-16-2005, 11:45 AM:
 
Dick,
Yes, the 2000-series SDDS readers actually have two 35/70mm rollers
to allow 70mm prints to pass the reader. I think Dolby´s penthouse
reader also have 35/70mm rollers.

Thomas
 

---

Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 03-16-2005, 12:11 PM:
 
Tom,

Do you enforce cleaning of rollers.
If you do. How are the rollers normally cleaned.
It shoulde be be with a soft damp cloth (or an impregnated 'chux')

Seems to me that the only way that damage was done is during a rushed cleaning effort.

Do you use tools of ANY type to clear the gate and trap, like and old brass aperture plate?

I can't seem to how normal passage of film or cleaning can damage the roller in such a way.

I would by-pass that roller and sound head until you replace the roller. Though the damage would not effect the image, it's just not nice.

Dick,

Mag Penthouses (Oh the 'old days') ( Oh I still dream about JJ's & Vic 8's)

Cat 700/701
DTS
SDDS

All use or are supplied with 70/35mm rollers.

Even Kelmar film cleaners that we NOW use filmguard for have 70mm by-pass rollers.

All come with 70mm by-pass rollers.

Even Speco platters and muts have them.

But nine times of ten they are more of of a pain in the ass than useful

Bill.
 

---

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 03-16-2005, 02:29 PM:
 
Bill,
No tools are used for cleaning. A damp cloth is used, and sometimes acetone to get rid off dirt stuck real hard. Gate cleaned the same way plus a toothbrush to clean the velvet bands. I also use canned
air to blow away dust.

If careless cleaning was a cause, then damage should be everywhere on both machines, but it´s the rollers on the SDDS reader on
projector 2 only.

Thomas
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-16-2005, 10:55 PM:
 
Actually you can see what is pretty normal wear on the inside flanges of the upper right and lower right rolllers. I see this on ALOT of the 2000 penthouses out there. Keep in mind that it does take a number of years of use to get to this point. This was caused because the rollers were not correctly aligned laterally. The film will eventually wear through the hard coat anodize on these rollers. The second roller down on the right side is the later version hardened steel roller and is a critical input guide roller. This is on a Sony 2000 that is up for sale on E-Bay. Basically, its a pretty worn out penthouse and those rollers are getting hard to get. Sprockets are not a problem though. They want 500.00 for this... I wouldn't give them 50 bucks, I bet even the sprocket is shot as its not the hard coated version.

Mark


 

---

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 03-18-2005, 08:14 AM:
 
Just discovered one more scar. This one is exactly like
the first one on the 70mm roller - it seems to start
under the black coating, then a small fraction falls off.

Thomas
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-18-2005, 08:24 AM:
 
Exactly! Thats the great built in Sony quality......
 

---

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 03-18-2005, 10:17 AM:
 
Finally decided to take off the readers and examine
them more closely. A pretty sight it wasn´t. I much
doubt I will put them back to use again.

A pity because the sound was excellent, even though
two out of three prints wouldn´t play.

Thomas
 

---

Posted by Robbie Hidalgo (Member # 2090) on 03-22-2005, 04:54 PM:
 
Thomas,

From the look of your photo, I completely agree with Mark. Generally, two "wear" symptoms occur with the SDDS rollers. One is the consistent wear on the flange of the 35mm portion of the 35/70's and/or on the straight 35's, and the other is almost a chip or flake section where the wear began and a chip of anodizing came off. The chip usually occurs on the roller surface, and the wear usually occurs on the flange, though the wear can also occur on the roller surface if the unit is old enough.

Causes are as Mark explained, and also misalignment of the reader relative to the projector and/or feed roller (not uncommon). This usually shows up as excessive wear on the 35/70 flanges, which eventually migrates down to the next rollers in the chain as it worsens.

It can be fixed. But I definitely agree, if you see something sharp, don't thread it...
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-22-2005, 07:32 PM:
 
Today was SDDS Penthouse day for me.... 5 in all to look at. Here are a few representative photos of what I normally see as far as wear is concerned.......

The amount of film dust a hooked sprocket can generate is amazing... sprocket replacement is a must on just about all the 2000 readers that are still using the plain alumnium sprockets.



The sprocket off that penthouse is beyond shot!



The back of that same penthouse.........



The progressive roller wear that i see so often and that Robbie mentioned in his post. The penthouse still functions ok though. New hard coated alumnium spriocket is shown.


 

---

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-23-2005, 11:00 AM:
 
I feel dumb asking this, but...

Mark, is there evidence of hooking in your SDDSSprocket-1.jpg picture? I don't see it. I see plenty of wear between the teeth, and even on the teeth, but not to the point of hooking.

Am I just missing the signs?

--jhawk
 

---

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 03-23-2005, 12:39 PM:
 
Look at the base of the teeth. It's most noticable on the 2nd and 3rd from the left. It doesn't take much to cause problems, but this puppy is pretty bad.

Also, the flash and angle doesn't help much, but there really isn't a good way to get a 2D representation of the problem.

Mark: damn that's dirty. Most of the ones I"ve seen at least the operator side was pretty clean... tho the inside looked like your pics.

--Chris
 

---

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-23-2005, 03:10 PM:
 
If you pull your fingernail across the base of those teeth, you'll get hooked!

Why/how does all that emulsion debris from the hooked sprocket teeth on the operating side get into the back side of the unit?
 

---

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 03-23-2005, 03:37 PM:
 
Compared to the reader on Marks pictures (the dirtiest
piece of equipment I have ever seen!) mine look nice.
The sprockets on my readers show almost no wear. All
the other rollers do.

Any idea what it would cost to replace all the rollers
including the sprockets?

Thomas
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-23-2005, 07:17 PM:
 

quote: John Pytlak

---

Why/how does all that emulsion debris from the hooked sprocket teeth on the operating side get into the back side of the unit?

---