Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Motiograph SH 7500 Red Reader

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Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 04-10-2005, 06:52 PM:

Hi all, for anyone that would care. At this very moment, Kelmar has about 10 Red Readers to fit the Motiograph SH7500. I just picked one up. I was told to expect them last December and they just put them in stock a couple of weeks ago, get them while supply lasts!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-10-2005, 07:49 PM:

I've done wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too many of those! They are ohhhhh so fun to install [Mad]

Truthfully, its ALOT easier to just change the soundhead out.
Mark

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 04-11-2005, 01:05 AM:

Actually Component Engineering has a version of their ASR-40 for the Motiograph SH7500 and you don't have to go thru all the trouble to install like the Kelmar.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-11-2005, 06:53 AM:

quote: Ken Layton
Actually Component Engineering has a version of their ASR-40 for the Motiograph SH7500 and you don't have to go thru all the trouble to install like the Kelmar.

Kelmat has recently re-designed their LED bracket to make things easier.......hahahahahah, It didn't help much but their optics are ALOT better in regards to LED life than the ASR-40!

So, you still have to remove the exciter casting to get the pick up in there. Sometmies its also a P.I.A. to adjust the casting to get it in the correct lateral position. The head has to be removed top get to the top screw or at least slid forword to access the screw. Then there is the worn lateral guide assy and hooked sprocket that is NLA. Then you face the great possibility of the film weaving back and forth because the lateral gyude assy is going to be VERY worn. It was great stuff for mono but not for stereo. Changing the sound head still makes more sense to me.......

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-11-2005, 07:00 PM:

Worst case scenario: reuse the entire kit (minus LED assy) in that newer soundhead at a later time when money is less tight.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-11-2005, 08:08 PM:

The best-worst case practice would be to buy another mounting foot for the led assy and you even get to re-use most of the LED head. Cost, about 40 bucks! But really, should a threatre even operate in this condition....... my experience has shown that most never do make any equipment upgrade. They go to the shed and get another projector head or soundhead that they've bought up over the years to keep that original one patched together.

Mark

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-13-2005, 03:42 PM:

Hi, Steve! It's just prolonging the misery... [Wink]

While most of the red reader components can be used in a different soundhead, you're now going to have to pay twice for installation and alignment -- on top of the cost of another soundhead. The cost of the install in the Motiogrief might nearly have bought your replacement soundhead and pedestal.

Then you'd be done with the whole affair.

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 04-18-2005, 11:13 PM:

Are you guys Lazy or what!

Myself and Jim Boyd of Ohio put in the Kelmar LED reader into my Motiograph Soundhead this past Sunday. My Motiograph has a removeable bulkhead and I have 3 spare soundheads for parts. From what I saw, it was a VERY easy install. The sound that I am getting out of this unit was so much more superior than what I was used to, it was simply amazing. Full stereo sound that is pretty dam impressive if I must say so. Maybe this might not be a good set up for an indoor theatre, but for a drive in, I, just cannot say enough. From what I have read, wearing out a Motiograph sound head is not much of a reallity! Mine is in superior condition at that, but I keep collecting parts from old units just in case. I am sorry to rain on your parade, but, I am glad I upgraded the SH7500.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-19-2005, 08:03 AM:

quote:
Are you guys Lazy or what!

Not at all. Its more work to change the whole soundhead out!! I suppose I just like to advise my customers to do the correct thing to better themselves. I have a customer that feels the same way you do about your "griefs" .... I'll just say wait till you loose a bearing in the thing...... [Big Grin]

. He is beginning the process of eliminating his over the next two years...... 6 of them. Another interesting thing is that I've yet to find a "Grief" sound head that does not have a hooked sprocket.... damaging film is a bad thing [thumbsdown]

. The AA "griefs" also have a flicker that the factory was never able to get rid of.... This is according to a guy I knew that once worked at the "grief" factory.

Oh well......

Mark

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 04-19-2005, 06:07 PM:

Mark, I do appreciate your reply. My sprocket looks as if the sprocket has little to no wear. You may be right in the end. I do not disagree with you in wanting to send your customers in the right direction. However, I run 3 days a week for about 4.5 months out of a year. So, I am not exactly running this stuff real hard. If I were in a indoor theater running 5-6 shows a day, 7 days a week, I would have done something a little different. Had I not been operating a theatre on the edge of staying in business, I would have also done something different. But, for me, this has worked out very well at a very reasonable price. Thanks again for your help and comments, they are very much appreciated by you and all the others. Thank you!

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-19-2005, 06:55 PM:

In this case Steve is my customer. I have (1) new sprocket and several used soundheads. While I would never sell anything this obsolete, I "fail to throw away" items in stock that a particular customer may find necessary to stay in business "in case." (Recently another customer removed his Ballantyne 6/BW projector and I was able to clean out another relic from my home garage...these are items that were never transported to Hadden.)

As regards, the AA projector: there has never been a flicker problem. In fact in olden times the AA Motiograph was second only to the Simplex family in studio projectors because it was felt that the "dissolve" of the barrel shutter gave "a smoother" light. (esp. if you did't need very much of it!)

Steve has a Century C converted from a Cinerama projector....a very good pairing since the only custom part is the Century main drive shaft.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-19-2005, 10:24 PM:

quote:
As regards, the AA projector: there has never been a flicker problem. In fact in olden times the AA Motiograph was second only to the Simplex family in studio projectors because it was felt that the "dissolve" of the barrel shutter gave "a smoother" light. (esp. if you did't need very much of it!)

Louis,

The sprocket comment wasn't meant to single out Steve or yourself. It was meant as as red flag to all "Grief" owners. Ya gotta agree there are not many good sprockets left running out there and no good ones available except fomr junkers.... if they are good. The majority of SH7500's can be claimed to be film chewers.

I have seen the flicker on a number of occasions both with arc and xenon. The now deceased friend that worked at the "Grief" factory was the one that brought it up once at a discussion at his house, and it was an interesting discussion. He worked the Model K final test area. The model K didn't suffer from the flicker problem at all as it was a simpler gear train. The flicker was the result of too much lost motion in the gear train and is more pronounced with certain types of rectifiers. These projectors definately suffered from lost motion even when they were fairly new... there were just too many gear pairs in the thing... over 20... count em for your self. The Super has about half of that and even with some lost motion runs fine. The AA flicker was said to be even worse with the double barrel shutters than it was with a single hence the reason they discontinued them. I have only ever seen one double barrel AA that was still complete.... it was in a junk pile up at the old Ringold place in Grand Rapids years ago.

Anyway, I can only relate to you what I was told by a factory person and what I have seen in actual use in the 30 to 40 AA booths I've delt with over the years.

BTW: I can't and won't ever knock their steadiness which is superior to just about anything else ever made. Their longevity was good but DP-70 is tops in that department.

Mark

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 04-19-2005, 10:51 PM:

Thanks Louis for keeping some of those Motiograph soundhead parts laying around, new or used!

Jim Boyd was nice enough to come by my way and help me to clean up 25 years of neglect, but it will be your company and techs that I will rely on in the coming years due to your support, especially helping me out on a Saturday Afternoon by supplying me with one of your Super Deluxe Century Shutter Drive Replacement Systems that is totally assume!

Thanks again Louis!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-19-2005, 11:43 PM:

I never had a SH7500 give any grief they are a well thought out soundhead for the period it was designed in
as for the AAA never had a flicker issue unless the xenon system had a very step cone of light entering the shutter just like the BX60's can have travel ghost with certain close focal xenon systems

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-20-2005, 08:00 AM:

quote: Gordon McLeod
I never had a SH7500 give any grief they are a well thought out soundhead for the period it was designed in

Exactly! The pisser today is that yesterdays technology is no longer used or adaquate.

Mark