Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Victoria 8 gate

This is topic Victoria 8 gate in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 04-17-2005, 12:09 PM:

The Victoria 8 gate is a strange construction. It´s straight
with another straight part above it, slightly angled. Does
this have the same effect as a curved gate, or does the film
behave as if the gate was straight all the way, as for focus
as well as steadiness?

Thomas

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-17-2005, 12:17 PM:

I feel it makes the film act as a standard straight gate. To get any on-screen benefit, the curve has to be where the aperture is. I always felt that the curved part at the top only allowed the film to enter the gate a little easier.

To have a 'big' projector like a V8 without a curve gate was an oversight, IMHO. I do like V8's, but that was an improvement that should have been done many years ago.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-17-2005, 07:55 PM:

The solid piece of aluminum that Cine used for the V-8s were designed to be curved, since tht machine had the double usage of being for the 35/70mm formats. Why of the curved entrance on top is to keep the upper loop rather low being that the upper sprocket is rather close to the trap and allowing the film to enter the trap more smoothly and runs quieter. Plus, with 70mm, a high tight loop puts more stress on the film if the trap was a straight gate variety.

70mm needs the curved gate for better focus and it was carried over to the 35mm traps.

Check out the manual section on the V-8 machine and one can notice this in the threading area.

-Monte

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-17-2005, 10:17 PM:

quote:
The solid piece of aluminum that Cine used for the V-8s were designed to be curved,

Do you mean the gate plate Monte? Actually its made of steel that has been hard chrome plated, not alumnium. Those plates are over a grand dealer cost these days, its no wonder Shakamecanica has lost favor in the States.

I actually always liked the Vic-8 and 10 for 70mm. The Vic 10 uses the larger size sprockets in all three positions for feed and holdback and that does make threading a bit tighter up top. There were two pairs of 8's in the Chicago area for years, both top notch theatres. The picture quality was always better than one thought might happen with a straight gate. Of course 35mm never seemed quite as good as 70. I think the gate blowers in both machines helped somewhat... kind of a reverse Cinefocus thing.

The two Vic 8's that I still maintain out here that have got to be 40 plus years old but still run like a champ. One recently lost its Telemecanique motor start/run relay and another needed new shutter bearings but other than that they are basically untouched over the years. Fortunately the oil has alwys gotten changed regularly at this location and that no doubt has contributed to the long life.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-18-2005, 12:36 AM:

I thought the "trap" was a solid piece of aluminum-the way the V8's were at the Karcher (in which my friend has now since we stripped out that twin..) Ture, I like the v8's alot better than any simplex out there. - Monte

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-18-2005, 06:04 AM:

Yes, definitely (stainless) steel, although it does have an aluminum look to it. This is a photo I took to yell at someone about not cleaning. I was told by someone that the brass hooked-shape to hold the gate is/was hand filed to fit each projector, which is why the projector serial number is written on it.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2005, 08:17 AM:

quote:
Yes, definitely (stainless) steel,

Has to be non-magnetic for mag prints! So they are probably type 316 stainless. When the hard chrome plating wears you can actually see the underlying metal.

Mark

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 04-18-2005, 12:07 PM:

If I understand this right, the gate is OK for 70mm
but less good for 35mm? This must be the only straight
gate for 70mm?

So for 35mm, the gate is no better than the straight gate
for Victoria 5?

Thomas

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2005, 04:16 PM:

quote: Thomas Jonsson
This must be the only straight
gate for 70mm?

So for 35mm, the gate is no better than the straight gate
for Victoria 5?

To answer your questions....

No, The Westrex 35/70 had straight gates.

Yes, about the same results on screen.

Mark

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 04-18-2005, 04:35 PM:

Thanks, Mark. I think I recall in one thread someone said
Cinemeccanica couldn´t make up their mind wether the gate
should be straight or curved - and made it somewhere in
between for the Vic 8.

The curved gate for the Vic 5 is a crappy construction, but
it actually gives a sharper image.

Is there ANY projector that works better with a straight
gate than a curved? How about Philips FP56 or the Bauer B11
or B14? They are known to produce excellent images, and have straight gates, if I´m not mistaken?

Thomas

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2005, 10:09 PM:

Hi Thomas,

I can't answer for lamps opver 2kw on the FP-56 and never actually projected film with the Bauer that I had. I would have to imagine that they put out great images though. The FP-56 certainly does and is dead steady when set up properly. On the 56 one can fit an auxillery air line that blows slightly on the back side of the film to aid in keeping the film cool and stable. Allthe duct work is built into the head for this. I have not tried that feature yet......
The FP-56 is certainly one of the nicest running 35mm machines I've ever worked with and super quiet.

Mark