Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Movies wont stay in EX

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 04-18-2005, 11:22 PM:

This has been going on for a while now...so I know its not the print. When we get an EX film in, we put it in out EX house, however I have been noticing that it doesn't always stay in EX. Maybe I'm not reading it right, but there are 2 Dolby Digital selections on the menu, one seems to engage EX, while the other is standard digital. Sometimes halfway through the feature, it switches. Sometimes it never even starts in EX and has to be manually switched. Anyone have any ideas about this?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-18-2005, 11:51 PM:

What processor are you using.

Also, are you aware that not all movies are recorded in EX?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-19-2005, 12:13 AM:

To go a bit further, most movies (perhaps 90% - 95% or more) are not recorded for EX.

I've even seen occaisions where films were released theatrically non-EX, but then get the EX or even DTS 6.1 treatment on DVD.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-19-2005, 12:30 AM:

Also, would you know if the EX software for the processor had corrupted, to where it needs to be reinstalled? Happened to us at one theatre

-Monte

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 04-19-2005, 12:33 AM:

I couldnt tell you what the EX processor model is, but we use the CP500 Dolby processors. I know most movies arent in EX, but a couple we have had were (cant remember the titles) but even when a movie apparently isnt in EX, occasionally the EX leds will come on as if its being presented in EX. No idea whats going on here...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-19-2005, 12:40 AM:

What version of software is in that CP-500? When you turn on the unit, the display will show the version number, or hit menu then 'about the 500' and this will show the version number.

If it's old, like 1.2x then the software needs to be upgraded. BUT, there is a software like 1.62, or something, then this version is buggy and will have problems with EX software.

Unfort, I've heard that there is no fix on this version, being the last version before the 650's came out.

thx-Monte

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-19-2005, 04:49 AM:

Does EX matrix out FOUR channels from the two rear channels, like the old quad matrixes did (circa mid 70s), or does it extract a single rear channel, as per what Dolby's analog does? Does this rely on phase orientation to extract audio, wouldn't you be able to leave it on all the time and there would ALWAYS be some out-of-phase ambience audio making its way to the matrixed rear channels, just like an matrixed scheme does (I hooked up quad decoders in my first apartment system and never shut if off....no matter what the program material, there was always some out of phase ambience that came through the surrounds. It was always 360. Would this be the case with EX?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-19-2005, 04:53 AM:

EX essentially does what Pro-Logic does from a LR source to create LCR. Yes you could leave it in all the time, but often a 5.1 mix is more "monoish" in the surrounds than stereo. In that instance all of the sound gets steered into the rear wall, which is distracting.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 04-19-2005, 05:04 AM:

Well, I noticed something strange as well. We run Pepsi ads which at BEST would be in digital, however, the EX lights dance around like crazy when the Pepsi ads run..also with some trailers. Does this mean we may have a problem with the software or processer or is this normal?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-19-2005, 08:37 AM:

The latest CP500 firmware for EX is version 1.65EX...it is supposed to have the bug fixes for the VERY buggy version 1.61EX. Version 1.61 is very bad voo-doo stay away unless you want your processor to only switch to Non-Sync on chance, or perhaps dump its programming and lower all levels, including optical preamp to zero.

The best firmware I've personally used at length is 1.31 but it will not work with an SA-10 or other EX box since the later firmwares echo the format changes back to the automation connector (essential for the SA-10 or other EX box to see when the internal Dolby Digital decoder dropped to analog or had digital selected. I believe the oldest firmware that will work with EX is 1.51

I have exactly one theatre running on version 1.65EX and have heard no complaints.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-19-2005, 11:11 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
Yes you could leave it in all the time, but often a 5.1 mix is more "monoish" in the surrounds than stereo. In that instance all of the sound gets steered into the rear wall, which is distracting.

Very distracting indeed. I think this is more of problem in home setups than what one encounters in a commercial theater since just about every modern mix is true 5.1. Some home users insist on manually activating EX for everything. The problem is a good number of catalog DVDs are actually 4.1 instead of 5.1. The box may say DD 5.1, but with movies like "The Abyss" the mono surround channel is recorded identically across both LS and RS channels. The EX circuit pulls all that identical audio to the back wall, making for an oddly hollow and empty surround effect.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 09-01-2006, 09:41 AM:

It has been 499 days since the last post.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-01-2006, 09:41 AM:

So if I understand correctly, when you play a film in EX that does not have the EX channel, there is the possibility that all surround information will come from the rear surrounds only?

I have a theater that had an EX system (CP650EX) installed a year or two ago (before I serviced the theater) and they have always played every film in EX. One of the managers said they were told they have to play it in EX because if they play in Format 10 there will be no rear surrounds. (I know that's NOT true and I wonder where that idea came from.)

[Confused]

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 09-01-2006, 11:37 AM:

In the SA-10 manual, it suggests just that, Ken. Especially in analog surround formats. I remember this very pronounced effect during the Episode One trailers.

Another reason for mono trailers [thumbsup]

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-01-2006, 12:13 PM:

quote: Steve Scott
In the SA-10 manual, it suggests just that, Ken

I'm sorry, it suggests just what? That you always play in EX, or that you do NOT play in EX unless the print is EX?

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 09-01-2006, 08:04 PM:

From the SA-10 manual...

quote:
If the surround EX mode is not disabled while playing a conventional 5.1 digital film, there will be a slight change to the surround signal distribution. If the surround EX mode is not disabled while playing an optical soundtrack, there will be a tendency for the surround information to concentrate in the back wall speakers, resulting in a lower level of surround information heard by patrons seated at the front of the theatre