Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: "Kung Fu Hustle"

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-20-2005, 10:04 PM:

Well, we got our print today... and it came with DTS discs... but alas, there's no time code on the print! What gives? Are all the prints like that? If so, why even bother sending the CDs?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-20-2005, 10:07 PM:

Reels 2, 3 and 4 of my print did not have dts timecode. Sucks to be a dts owner!

(Actually it sucks to be a SDDS owner too because the reel I looked at had an obviously misprinted SDDS track...but I'll be running in SRD anyway so no biggie.)

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-20-2005, 11:12 PM:

..just hope that the SRD track ain't messed up as well due to the printing errors. - Monte

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-21-2005, 11:24 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
Reels 2, 3 and 4 of my print did not have dts timecode.

Does that mean that 1 and 5 did? That's interesting, because I don't think any of mine did. I think the attached trailer had the timecode (but didn't have an SDDS track).

I should probably go check it again and report back later.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-21-2005, 01:45 PM:

When 'Air force One' came out, it had an SR-D track on (some) R1's only. Turns out someone didn't license the soundtrack for SR-D, but by accident the lab left it 'turned on' when printing. They caught the mistake, and didn't print the track on any other reels. I wonder if something like that happened here?

Fun movie, BTW.

Posted by Christian Volpi (Member # 2370) on 04-21-2005, 03:03 PM:

Just received this email from ETS.

quote:

Attention Projectionist:

Due to an encoding problem, you may find that some of your reels of

KUNG FU HUSTLE

Do not have the complete encoding for your DTS disks to play properly. The other three sound types, Dolby, Dolby SRD and SDDS are all fully functional and can be used.

You can determine if your print has this issue by checking the head of each reel for the SOUND marking just before the start of the countdown leader. There will be a frame with a red circle with IN and a number on it. On the edge of the frame below it will be the sound that the reel is encoded with. If it reads SDDS/SRD/SR then the print in not encoded with DTS. Please do not use the DTS disks with this print or it will cause sound issues.

If all 5 reels are marked SDDS/SRD/SR/DTS then your print is ready to play in DTS.

There is no resolution for this issue if you do not have a fully encoded DTS print and you must play your film in one of the other sound formats.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 04-21-2005, 06:17 PM:

Reel 1 of Men In Black had Dolby Digital on it, but not the rest of it- it was left off for some 'political' reason.
DTS- is THAT still around?? [Wink]

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 04-21-2005, 06:45 PM:

It always makes me smirk when I read:

quote:
... Dolby, Dolby SRD ...

I was told, a long time ago when I started work as a projectionist that the term "Dolby SRD" is sufficient to specify that sound format (not "SR/SRD"), irrespective of the particulars of the equipment playing it back. Of course, DTS and SDDS don't have a 'back-up' system for when the digital part of the system fails, by definition they can't.

It seems to be comparable to using two different web-browsers to view the same site. One of the browsers might understand CSS, and the other (older?) browser does not. The website will still be viewable in the non-CSS browser but won't look as pretty.

Alex.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-21-2005, 07:03 PM:

"Dolby" is referring to the analog track. Dolby SRD is the Dolby digital track.

I'm surprised DTS isn't making a big stink out of this and demanding restruck prints.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-21-2005, 08:31 PM:

It's not a DTS issue .. they only provide the disks and the timecode 'information.' If the lab forgets to put it on - oh well.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-21-2005, 08:41 PM:

Well, not exactly...DTS is in the business of making DTS work for theatres. They can't sell readers if movies don't have DTS, and one of the ways to make sure movies have DTS is to contract with studios to release movies in DTS, and provide incentives for them to do so (while still charging). Even if DTS isn't the lab's customer, the studio is the lab's customer, and DTS is the studio's customer (and vice-versa).

DTS is in a position to put pressure on the studios to put pressure on the labs in a case like this. How strong is that pressure? Well, that's hard to say without inside knowledge.

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-21-2005, 09:08 PM:

The costs to reprint what could be tens of thousands of replacement reels is pretty high, plus there is the time constraint issue. There comes a point when you have to just let an occasional goof slide.

Please report on this thread which reels in your print have dts timecode. This could be interesting to see how much it varies from print to print as well as see if it would be feasible for ETS to assemble complete dts prints to save for repertory use.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-21-2005, 09:34 PM:

This "Kung Fu Hustle" thing reminds me of a few other odd DTS abnormalities.

Remember the Fox movie, "The Edge"? If you wanted to play it in digital sound you needed Dolby Digital. But the damned print also had DTS time code. No discs though.

In the years leading up to Disney finally releasing a movie with DTS on it ("Con Air") they would tease DTS fans by releasing movie trailers featuring DTS time code on them. I remember seeing one such trailer for "Nixon." I'm not aware that anyone ever got to play that trailer back in DTS Digital Sound.

quote: Jesse Skeen
Reel 1 of Men In Black had Dolby Digital on it, but not the rest of it- it was left off for some 'political' reason.

That was during a short phase when Sony was putting out prints in SR/SDDS/DTS (and no Dolby Digital). "The American President," "Starship Troopers," "Jerry Maguire" and "Men In Black" were among those DTS-SDDS releases.

"Men In Black" was pretty much guaranteed to have DTS on it anyway since Steven Spielberg (a significant shareholder in DTS) was involved in the film's production.

quote: John Walsh
When 'Air force One' came out, it had an SR-D track on (some) R1's only. Turns out someone didn't license the soundtrack for SR-D, but by accident the lab left it 'turned on' when printing.

That's pretty strange. The print I saw of "Air Force One" was a quad format print.

Sony was kind of hit and miss on which movies it chose to do quad format or SDDS-SRD, SDDS-DTS, SDDS-only or even SRD-only (in some SPC and Castle Rock releases) during the late 1990's. Some time after the release of "Godzilla" Sony finally got pretty dependable on releasing quad format prints on Columbia and Tri-Star branded features.

Posted by Kevin Owens (Member # 3100) on 04-21-2005, 09:46 PM:

Reels 1 and 2 of my print had the DTS timecode.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 04-21-2005, 09:57 PM:

I had timecode on Reel 2 only.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-21-2005, 10:19 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Dolby SRD is the Dolby digital track.

We've been through this a bazillion times... SR*D is a Dolby Digital track with an SR analog backup track. Dolby / Dolby SRD is redundant.

In fact, just saying "Dolby" is stupid since it could mean anything from Dolby A to Dolby SR to SRD to any number of things. Sounds like they're using "Dolby" as a generic term meaning "analog".

It would be nice for ETS to get their terminology straight.

[Roll Eyes]

As for Air Force One, I heard that they had a problem with a large number of their reel 1s where the picture wasn't steady. When they ran out of replacement reels they had to replace them with reel 1s from international versions of the prints. That could have led to some reel 1s having different sound formats.

Posted by Emma Tomiak (Member # 1862) on 04-22-2005, 02:41 AM:

My print had a timecode on every reel.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-22-2005, 02:56 AM:

Time code on reel 2 and 3 only

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 04-22-2005, 08:57 AM:

What about this 'soft version' business? I assume this refers to the sound mix. [Confused]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-22-2005, 12:43 PM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
We've been through this a bazillion times... SR*D is a Dolby Digital track with an SR analog backup track. Dolby / Dolby SRD is redundant.

Okay-fine, but nobody is listening to you because you don't have a picture. [Big Grin]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-22-2005, 01:09 PM:

quote: Alexander Smith
I was told, a long time ago when I started work as a projectionist that the term "Dolby SRD" is sufficient to specify that sound format (not "SR/SRD"), irrespective of the particulars of the equipment playing it back. Of course, DTS and SDDS don't have a 'back-up' system for when the digital part of the system fails, by definition they can't.

Yes, it is common knowledge "SR*D" covers both Dolby analog and digital formats. Still, just about any film print with Dolby Digital on it will have "SR/SRD" listed.

As to the claims DTS and SDDS don't have backup optical systems, actually they do. They're just rarely used. DTS used to have their "DTS Stereo" analog track. I seem to remember reading something about Sony coming up with their own take on the analog optical track thingie too. However, since just about every major release is quad format (and a growing number of smaller more "indie" films doing it as well) the Dolby SR branded optical track is more of a de-facto standard.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-22-2005, 04:31 PM:

Mike, who are you talking to??? Where did that quote come from? [Razz]

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-22-2005, 04:44 PM:

DTS stereo analog is still very alive and available for license for producers to use even if they do not plan to release a digital track [Razz]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-22-2005, 06:30 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
Mike, who are you talking to???

I dunno, some faceless dude at the top of this page. [Big Grin]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-22-2005, 07:33 PM:

Oh, then you need to enable the "ignore people who don't have pictures" in your control panel. That way you won't even see their posts! [Cool]

(That feature has actually been requested by various people. haha)

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-22-2005, 10:24 PM:

I've sent a picture actually. I feel kinda left out that no one can pick on me in the "separated at birth" thread. I think Brad just doesn't like me. [Roll Eyes]

I considered posting a large version of my member photo in the "Post your random pictures" thread.

[Razz]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-22-2005, 10:29 PM:

Ah, so you did! Ok, maybe by the time you hit 1000 I will have gotten around to updating the member pics in queue.

Posted by Dave Callaghan (Member # 1544) on 04-22-2005, 11:15 PM:

quote: Steve Scott
What about this 'soft version' business? I assume this refers to the sound mix.

It refers to the running time. The Asian version is edited a few minutes longer, probably to include more graphic content.

According to IMDB, the running time is 95 minutes, except in the Philippines where the running time is 99 minutes.

I recall another instance of this recently. Quentin Tarantino intended to release a longer version of Kill Bill in Japan because that domestic audience is better prepared to tolerate the mayhem. Apparently that was also a reason why some of the scenes were in black and white instead of colour, to tone down the blood for the North American audience.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 04-23-2005, 05:52 AM:

As far as I know there's timecode on all reels of my print, however I'll check again. Every time I check the auditorium though it's in DTS.

I remember reading somewhere that SR-D is sufficient to identify an SR as well as SRD track since the SRD is the digital equivilant of the SR track.
Old manual or something, don't remember where I saw it.
I label my prints with SRD/SR as simply SR-D.

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 04-23-2005, 01:16 PM:

Thanks Dave,

I heard the same explanation for the B&W in Kill Bill Vol. 1.

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 04-23-2005, 03:18 PM:

A couple of years ago I asked a distributor why some reels had
all digital formats and some SRD only. The answer was, because
of the lack of time and a large number of prints, they used two
different labs. For example lab no 1 made reels 1, 3 and 5 and
the other one reels 2, 4 and 6. And lab no 1 printed SRD only.

Sounds a little odd, but might be an explanation.

Thomas

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 04-23-2005, 05:18 PM:

Just a thought on the SR/SRD thing. In the past there has been MONO, STEREO (without NR), DOLBY A, and DOLBY SR. It could be that "they" still list SR, just to make sure that everyone knows the optical track is in SR. CDS did not have a "back-up" optical track, so listing SR may be to make it "fool proof".

Note: there is a part of Murphy's Law that states there is no such thing as fool proof, because fools are very ingenious.

Posted by Jeremy Jorgenson (Member # 2989) on 04-23-2005, 05:19 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
Please report on this thread which reels in your print have dts timecode.

None of our reels (of KFH) have DTS timecode on them. Luckily, the only thing we use DTS timecode for here is for the RWC/DVST Mopix discs - which I don't think were even offered for this film.

Posted by Keith Peticolas (Member # 971) on 04-23-2005, 07:06 PM:

All reels have timecode. Attatched trailer didn't though. Rest of movie plays fine.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-28-2005, 01:36 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Okay-fine, but nobody is listening to you because you don't have a picture.

You were saying...?

[Big Grin]

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-29-2005, 01:19 PM:

Hahahaha! You guys are comedians! [Big Grin]

Posted by Benjamin J. Kepner (Member # 1241) on 05-01-2005, 11:37 AM:

Ours had Timecode on all reels except reel #4 (nice surprise to me while I was screening it).