Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: EP 3 print problems

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 05-19-2005, 07:34 AM:

Did anyone have any print issues on Ep3? One of my theatres in our region, didn't get a chance to run one particular print. Well, this was odd, the 2 nd reel was in a different language, we believe Japanese.

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 05-19-2005, 09:04 AM:

Our (2) prints of Ep3 are excellent.

A few years ago we received our single print of "Mission To Mars" and found the first reel had french dialogue... We missed the first two shows until the replacement english reel arrived.

Ho-hum.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 05-19-2005, 03:27 PM:

thats not japanese, its the Trade Federation language.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 05-20-2005, 03:43 AM:

I had no problems getting the correct prints however according to ETS, Fox has created quite a bit of confusion regarding the prints of this movie.

Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 05-20-2005, 04:52 AM:

No problems down here,the whole of our print is in "AUSTRALIAN" just as we ordered it! [Wink]

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-20-2005, 07:23 AM:

The following story appeared on the front page in the Asbury Park Press this morning: (www.app.com)

________________________________________________________________

Some Shore moviegoers needed translator droids
Published in the Asbury Park Press 05/20/05
BY ALISON WALDMAN
COASTAL MONMOUTH BUREAU
- advertisements -
EATONTOWN — In plain English, "Star Wars: Episode III — Revenge of the Sith" fans were flummoxed when the actors suddenly switched to a foreign language.

Christopher Hansen of Red Bank was particularly upset. A big "Star Wars" fan, he'd bought his tickets — about $40 worth — nearly a month in advance, anticipating the much-ballyhooed Wednesday midnight premiere at the Loews Cineplex at Monmouth Mall.

He showed up at 8:30 p.m. to secure seats for himself, his daughter, his wife, a nephew and a friend. Clad in "Star Wars" T-shirts and munching on "Star Wars"-themed snacks, they waited for the 12:01 a.m. movie to begin.

Within minutes, they were enthralled with the special effects and story line. But during a scene when two of the movie's stars are caught in a force field, Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi began to speak in another language.

"For a second there I am confused," Hansen said. "Then I realized . . . that this is not a "Star Wars' language, that's Japanese!"

"Stop the movie, stop the movie!" people in the audience chanted, as they realized the apparent mix-up, Hansen said.

The lights came on, and a theater manager flanked by two police officers explained to the audience of 250 — many decked out in "Star Wars" clothing and paraphernalia — that he did not know what happened and the movie would not continue.
A reel mystery
Later Thursday, John McCauley, senior vice president of marketing for the Loews chain, explained that a reel of the movie — which is distributed to theaters on multiple reels that have to be spliced together — had somehow been mixed up with a Japanese version.

Customers were advised they could try to squeeze into showings in the five other theaters where "Episode III" was being screened. Or they were offered a refund or a pass for another time, McCauley said.

"We had amazingly very happy, content people with the way the situation was handled," McCauley said. "We received very nice compliments from our patrons."

But those who were in the audience said the news was bitter at first for the many diehard fans who had gone out of their way to get tickets for the first showing.

"It almost got to a point of being scary because some people were very angry," said Louise Conover of Rumson, who brought her sons, Charlie and Teddy, and two of their friends. But Charlie, 12, a "Star Wars" fan since he was 5, said he was too upset to be startled by the crowd's reaction.

"Everyone got really angry, including me, because I had my hopes up for this movie, and I was really excited," Charlie said.

The four trekked to another showing, where they sat on the hard, sticky floor in front. And the boys had fun despite all.

"It turned out to be a really fun adventure, and I got to be a cool mom, so it's OK," Conover said. She thought the theater handled the incident as best as it could.

Around the country, moviegoers flocked to the dark side in droves, giving the final installment of George Lucas' tale a record-breaking midnight run. It raked in an estimated $16.5 million from 2,900 midnight screenings Thursday, double what the Oscar-winning "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" took in during its midnight showings in 2003.
Their plans went awry
But for Christopher Hansen, it wasn't such a happy ending. The 38-year-old said he had spent money on popcorn and snacks, hired a baby sitter for his youngest child and taken his 7-year-old daughter, Siobhan, out of school for a day so she could stay up late to watch the movie.

He said he had to argue for his refund — which he contends was not an option initially given — and was upset with the way the staff treated him and other audience members. He then headed home with his disappointed daughter sometime after 1 a.m.

"I wouldn't have been upset in the least bit if they were cool about it," said Hansen, who took his daughter to a show later Thursday.

McCauley said this was a single incident of a dissatisfied customer.

"We pride ourselves in treating our guests in a very high-level fashion," he said.

Charlie Conover said he thought the movie was great, although it is not his favorite in the series.

"I was real happy that I at least got to see the movie instead of watching it in Japanese," he said.

________________________________________________________________
You have to wonder if this was intentional? [evil]

It sounds like it was the second reel. Maybe someone familiar with the labs could comment for us. John Pytlak, are you reading this?

Posted by Dylan Marchetti (Member # 2764) on 05-20-2005, 01:27 PM:

Ouch. For me to be "happy and content with the situation was handled", I'd have had to hear a damn good reason why the print hadn't been teched prior to the show. As I understand it, 99% of theatres got their prints on Tuesday.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-20-2005, 01:49 PM:

I have to agree, there is no reason whatsoever for not pre-screening a print to a paying audience to ensure the presentation will be of high quality and have no problems. This is even moreso on a major movie like this where you KNOW the first showing will be a sell out to fanatics.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-20-2005, 02:08 PM:

We were one of those theaters that did not get the prints on Tuesday. Our four prints arrived at 2PM on Wednesday. Virtually NO TIME to screen for errors. As I understand it, a handful of theaters in our area were in the same boat. Most everyone else got theirs the day before.

Needless to say, I held my breath at the four midnight showings. Fortunately, no problems.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-20-2005, 02:32 PM:

Same here. Ours arrived at 3:00 PM on Wednesday via UPS.* SInce I have a day job, plus a previous film to show that night, I had no time to pre-screen even though I would have.

No problems though. I triple-checked the framing on each splice to make damn sure everything was cool -- but was still a nervous wreck at the midnite show until Reel 7 began to run.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 05-20-2005, 02:43 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
there is no reason whatsoever for not pre-screening a print to a paying audience to ensure the presentation will be of high quality

Not all the way right, Brad.

As mentioned elsewhere in these forums, The Lucas Piracy Panic reaches so far out, that all danish prints were split in two packets and delivered by different carriers - one the day before the premiere, the second few hours before launch, when everybody had films running, and no chance to run a test on the complete print. -As for me: DTS dropout just after the fanfare lead-text section, not getting on again during the whole film, and SRD on higest failrate most of the way - a single reel all out in Error. New print friday with exactly the same result.
That's 2 prints, 3 sets of dts discs and 3 different projectors doing the same shit !
Next thing will be a flyer from Lucasfilm, promoting digital equipment to avoid this kind of trouble in the future [evil]

We are not amused !

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-20-2005, 04:37 PM:

Good point, Per.

Mixed language reels, digital drop-outs, and whatever else is out there that has yet to be reported. What a marvelous argument for digital projection!! [Frown]

Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

By the way, the fiasco at Eatontown, NJ just made the 6 o'clock news on NBC in New York.

So...will there be an investigation to see who screwed up?? I don't think so. The chains and the distrib will be too busy counting the $$$ to worry about it.

Just one man's humble opinion.

Posted by Dylan Marchetti (Member # 2764) on 05-20-2005, 08:21 PM:

Sure, this wouldn't happen with digital projection, but I would respond to Lucas by saying that with 35mm, I've never had a print lock up and go to 50 by 50 square pixels in the middle of the 54th showing, a Windows crash take out a sold-out Saturday night prime, or a tech say "we can get you back on screen once a part arrives from Sweden, it'll be about 10 days", all of which HAVE happened to me with DLP.

As for the SW fiasco, I can understand not pre-screening if your prints arrive less than three hours before show time, as we're still not able to violate that whole space-time continuum thing. But if they had just "sold out" a 9pm show, that would've given them more than enough time to run the print and notice the problem. And while they couldn't have replaced the reel in time, they could've easily solved the problem by interlocking a few houses and freeing up a good print.

This is just bad management, plain and simple.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 05-20-2005, 10:03 PM:

What happened in Eatontown?

Dylan - I have had DLP technology crash on me too, and I also had to wait for parts for too long. But that is not really generally a digital cinema problem. "Conventional" projection systems can have all sorts of complete breakdowns too, and I had to wait for parts for too long on occasions in that field too.
In any case, screening the "print" is necessary with digital cinema as well. In our chain, all the downloads are screened before unleashed on the public, and we usually also have backup files on external hard drives.
BTW, what projector do you have that has its parts coming in from Sweden? I am not aware of any systems manufactured there.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 05-20-2005, 11:24 PM:

Received our STWIII prints 3pm Wed.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 05-20-2005, 11:25 PM:

No sound problems, but one of our prints had big black spots every few minutes throught the entire movie. Sometimes the spots were small and looked like dirt, sometimes they were huge, sometimes we had black scratches come and go, and we had a nice green scratch near a lab splice. Wonderful.

And to make it even better, the "print replacement lady" at Fox was a bitch to talk to. I don't know why she was so rude and condescending towards us. The kicker was when she said in a cocky tone "You know, we're going to need the other print back right away."

No freakin shit, lady. What the hell does she think we're going to do with it?? Just send the damn replacement already!

We did eventually get the replacement, but not in time for the midnite show. The "bad" print was certainly watchable, but way below an optimal presentation in our opinion. It will be interesting to hear what the lab says when they check it. The new print looks great... just like our other print.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 05-21-2005, 12:58 AM:

quote: Dylan Marchetti
But if they had just "sold out" a 9pm show, that would've given them more than enough time to run the print

so you're suggesting that another studio's product not be run because fox can't deliver a print early enough for a proper run through? Second, you're suggesting that you turn customers away that come to see the "sold out" film just because fox can't deliver a print early enough for a proper run through?

Posted by Dylan Marchetti (Member # 2764) on 05-21-2005, 12:47 PM:

Well, yes.

It's certainly Fox's fault for not getting the print out (which is why I'd try to cut a Fox title if possible). But still, Fox isn't going to have to explain to 500 guests why they don't get to see the movie they picked. One thing I've learned by managing, and I don't like it, is that while the temptation is to say "hey, if Fox wanted us to screen it, they should have delivered it yesterday", in the end, it all comes back to "______ Theater screwed up Star Wars for me, and I'm never going back". Customers are going to hold it against you, not Fox, no matter how hard you try to explain it or whose fault it really is.

So given a choice between possibly pissing off 500+ people who you won't be able to calm down, and cancelling a Wednesday late show that would maybe do 10 people (all of whom would be passed, of course), I see no contest. It's not the optimal situation, but it's certainly the better of the two options.

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 05-21-2005, 01:06 PM:

I agree with the prescreening process. I worked for AMC were it is maditory that all print be watched. I think that is true for National Amusements too. But as for Loews, ever since there was a piracy issue with The Hulk two years ago in California, it came down from the top that there is no screening of prints. I've never prescreened a print there. So needless to say I take special extra care in making sure my prints are all together right. But then again, and alot of people in the company has agreed, that my booth, New Brunswick, is the best booth in the region.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 05-21-2005, 01:31 PM:

For what it's worth, I agree with Dylan. Cancel Kingdom Of Heaven and make sure Star Wars is ok.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 05-21-2005, 01:44 PM:

It is a violation of master license agreements to cancel shows for pre-screening. The only possible way to do that using "proper management" would be to cancel another Fox show. Why would you cancel a show of Crash to make sure Star Wars is OK. Just refund the audience, issue readmits, and FOX is happy. I would then argue the point with my branch manager at FOX that those readmits (would give him the exact number issued) would NOT count against my pass allowance. Therefore, FOX pays for the problem through not receiving their 70% (or 90%) of the $$ for that show.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 05-21-2005, 02:08 PM:

quote: Mike Spaeth
Why would you cancel a show of Crash to make sure Star Wars is OK

Because I'd rather have 10 semi-irritated customers than 500 angry rabid star wars fans, and a front page story in the local news paper the next day about how my theater sucks.

Maybe it's difficult for some people to cancel a late show, but for us it's easy as attendance at these shows is generally low anyway. Sometimes ZERO.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-21-2005, 02:24 PM:

Up here pre screening usually specifically forbiden by the studio

Posted by Dylan Marchetti (Member # 2764) on 05-21-2005, 08:00 PM:

quote: Mike Spaeth
Just refund the audience, issue readmits, and FOX is happy. I would then argue the point with my branch manager at FOX that those readmits (would give him the exact number issued) would NOT count against my pass allowance. Therefore, FOX pays for the problem through not receiving their 70% (or 90%) of the $$ for that show.

But the problem with that is that while your pass allowance may turn out OK, your audience is not. Fox loses out on their 70% for one show, but you lose out on those 500 customers (plus everyone they tell about what happened, or who reads about it on the front page of the paper) indefinitely- both admission and concession dollars. If you were in that showing, would you go back for the next event picture? I wouldn't.

Of course, this is a special occasion. For a film that's not opening at 12:01 that night, you just wait until everything's over, or show up early the next day to pre-screen. No decent manager will cancel a show just so they could get home a little earlier.

Smaller theatres have their own rules, and with limited screens, they've gotta do what they've gotta do. But in most 10+ plexes, with multiple prints and usually one title from each distributor at any given point, I can't see any excuse for not pre-screening.

Posted by Robert John Jeromson (Member # 2559) on 05-22-2005, 04:24 PM:

We had organised our film schedule for last week to include pre-screenings of Star Wars under the impression that they would arrive late and in split deliveries. Based on the delivery procedure for practically every other block-buster we had no reason to suspect otherwise. However they arrived early, on Tuesday and in one delivery so we managed an early "screentest" of one of the prints and did the other on Wednesday night before the midnights. They were both prestine, several lab splices but otherwise okay.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-22-2005, 06:32 PM:

Mike Marshall and Dylan Marchetti-

You have to take note of Mike Spaeth's point: "It is a violation of master license agreements to cancel shows for pre-screening. The only possible way to do that using "proper management" would be to cancel another Fox show."

I had four prints come in while shows were running. As Projection Operations Manager, I have a great deal of descretion as to what happens in the booth. But... cancel four regularly scheduled shows of other companies, ( or Kindom of Heaven, for that matter) to screen four Star Wars prints? Are you out of your mind? That's not my call, and it's not a building manager's call either That's a call that only our owner could make, and I know the answer without even asking. He has other studios to deal with 52 weeks a year.

Life is not as simple as one may think in the multiplex.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-22-2005, 10:22 PM:

Incidently, one wonders what the leaders said on the Japanese(?) reel.

To put it differently, if you can't pre-screen, esp. for an "event" movie, then you should take twice as much care during inspection.

--jhawk

Posted by Alan Dallas (Member # 2537) on 05-23-2005, 05:52 AM:

We got it lucky in our 14 Screener when it comes to trying to find a print with probelms by pre-screening. For some reason Harkins loves for us to hold onto movies longer than we should. Even to the point were the Movie in question hits DVD and we keep playing it for a week AFTER its DVD debut. And we're a First Run house!!

So with that said, canceling the last showing which sells no tickets 30 mins after it was 'supposed to start' becuase the damn thing is on DVD already doesn't really matter. Wed and Thursday night it's so dead in the Theatre we only need 1 Usher, 1 Concessionist, 1 Box office member and a Manager on the floor to run the entire place(not counting Projectionist)... at a 14 screener. [Eek!]

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 05-23-2005, 12:39 PM:

How come no one has mentioned that if they ran DTS, the language on the Dolby and SDDS tracks wouldn't have made a difference (assuming they got the correct CDs.)

And the manager didn't understand what happened? It happened at a reel change - wouldn't that make it obvious?

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 05-23-2005, 02:18 PM:

quote: Martin Brooks
It happened at a reel change - wouldn't that make it obvious

Some managers are completely unaware of anything that happens upstairs.

If any shows should be canceled for screening, I'dve voted for Fever Pitch.