Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Edward Scissorhands 70mm Mag. sound format

This is topic Edward Scissorhands 70mm Mag. sound format in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 05-21-2005, 12:06 AM:

Does anybody have any information on the sound format and noise reduction system used on the 70mm Magnetic prints of "Edward Scissorhands"? The only label on the print reads "Dolby Stereo".

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-21-2005, 12:58 AM:

It is Dolby A noise reduction. Not sure if it is format 42 or 43 though.

There were also 70mm CDS prints made of this title...not like it matters though.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 05-21-2005, 05:52 AM:

Hi , Played a mint copy of this film last Novemeber.

Format 42, Dolby A type. 1.85:1 Ratio image.

For info on 70mm prints, including condition if know,(bassed on UK prints)see...

http://www.uk70mm.com/archive/70mmprints.html

www.uk70mm.com for the promotion of 70mm in the UK.

Darren

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 06-03-2005, 05:37 AM:

Thanks guys for the help. Much appreciated.

We've just screened the last spool of our print, and it looks and sounds pretty good in the theatre. The result with Dolby A noise reduction is very pleasing. I couldn't see any sub-bass signal, however, and am wondering whether it is actually present on the film.
The season of "Edward Scissorhands" will be our first run with magnetic sound. Prior to this we've had some DTS on 5-perf and 8-perf programs. The projector is a Kinoton MP 75E, with a 6-track cluster only, and the magnetic sound processing is via a Panastereo CSP 4600. The projector is fitted with soundheads for DTS, 70mm Magnetic, SDDS, SR-D and Analogue, so threading it is definitely not for the faint-hearted.
We could use some 70mm Mag. test films, if anyone knows of a source for them. Fortunately our service company found some in the back of a cupboard to use to set up the system initially.

Best regards.
Phil.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-03-2005, 11:42 AM:

I would love to see that movie in 70mm mag. It looked and sounded pretty darn good in 35mm Dolby A. Saw it twice at the now-closed Moyer Movieland in their THX house, which by the way was a REAL THX house and not a pretend wannabe! [Big Grin]

Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 06-03-2005, 07:37 PM:

Darren, wouldn't the list be more useful if print numbers were included? For most of the prints, there's probably only one still being booked out, but Lawrence, for instance, probably has at least a couple. In the US there were a dozen for the most recent reissue, and it's a British film, after all.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 06-04-2005, 04:38 AM:

Tao
Yes may be usefull, but films like Lawrence, there is only one print in the uk of this. This list is of UK prints only. Yes there are multiple prints of films like The Right Stuff and
Indy Jones Last Crusade. So yes will probably start to add print numbers.

David,
The York Cinema that screens 70mm here in the UK is also a genuine THX certified/Designed auditorium.
Like wise are the Picturehouse at FACT in Liverpool and the Cambeigde Arts PictureHouse, Cambridge.

Edward Scissorhands does have sub bass for sure

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 06-04-2005, 05:12 AM:

Ours is a THX house too! We have the silver box, and a certificate!

I'll have another hunt for the Sub bass during the week. There did seem to be something missing from the bottom end in one or two places. I have a THX tag spliced in at the head of the show, which should show it up if everything is working. Fortunately there's still a couple of weeks until the season starts.

A six-track magnetic equivalent of the Dolby Cat 251 Jiffy Test Film would be a fine thing indeed.

Phil.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 06-04-2005, 11:48 AM:

As you probably know, in the height of 70mm, every print came with Dolby tone and Pink noise to set up the responce of the mag pre-amp and 6 channel Dolby Level.
A friend had a reel of film that had a rotating voice listing all the channels in Format 43, but not sure who had produced that and were he got it from.That was very usefull.

Darren

www.uk70mm.com

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 06-04-2005, 03:01 PM:

I have one of those, I'm sure it was a Dolby product at one time, I seem to remember getting it from someone at Dolby. Not sure where it is right now, haven't used it in yonks.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 06-17-2005, 03:28 PM:

Pete if you fancy making a little money I would love to get hold of a Channel ID test film in 70mm, also interested in any 70mm items in general if you come accross any on your travels.

Are you going to Cine-Expo?

Darren

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 06-22-2005, 02:23 AM:

We found some time yesterday for a rehearsal run through the entire print. Looking good. I could not find a dedicated sub-bass channel on the film, although now the system has been properly aligned, there is plenty of bottom end coming from the stage. I would guess that as "Edward Scissorhands" pre-dates the introduction of Dolby Digital, and is a 35mm blow-up, there may not have been a sub channel created in the original mix. Our sub-bass channel is definitely working, in 42 and 43 formats. We can hear it and meter it using other material. We've also got a couple of hundred feet of "A Star is Born" which is probably format 41, so it's possible to switch around the formats and hear what is happening in the Panastereo CSP 4600 unit. The format 43 channel i.d. film would be a good thing to have. I have the equivalent loop in Dolby SR-D which has been a lifesaver once or twice. Maybe there is a facility somewhere that could still produce the 6-track Mag. version.
The season at ACMI starts on the 27th and runs for 10 performances. All welcome.

Cheers.
Phil.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-22-2005, 06:26 AM:

If the leaders are in tact...try and play them...you will often hear the "slate" which someone will actually say the configuration...such as "Edward Scissorhands 6-track split surrounds" and then a tone...the tone is handy to see if your channels are balanced on your processor as compared to the actual film. I have used this slate tone with great success to get an old print to sound balanced and track with the NR.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 06-22-2005, 10:23 AM:

quote: Phillip Grace
I couldn't see any sub-bass signal

That's because there isn't any! As I understand it, the decision to be released in digital and 70mm-mag was made late in post-production after the film had already been mixed in a simple 4-track Left-Center-Right-Surround layout. There was no low frequency/"baby boom" or separate left-right surround content.

The mix on the DVD is a discrete "4.0" which appears to mirror the original mix. Amusingly, when I was with Widescreen Review we received some letters and emails from readers who remembered the movie had been released in 70mm and, assuming all 70mm presentations have six channels of audio content, were pissed off about the "wrong" sound mix and wanted Fox to recall the discs and fix the "mistake"! I think we may have even printed one of the letters and reply. Anyway, in order to deal with the letters I contacted some folks who had worked on the film including someone who dealt with the mastering for the Cinema Digital Sound release, and everyone remembered the mix not having LFE or split surrounds.

quote: David Stambaugh
I would love to see that movie in 70mm mag.

Picture quality on this one is so-so, and not an aggressive mix in terms of loud, in-your-face sound effects which too many folks, annoyingly, think is what makes a good soundtrack. The highlight for me in terms of this movie's sound was the Danny Elfman score, which sounded fantastic in either the CDS or mag presentations. I didn't actually see this movie in 70mm until the American Cinematheque ran it a few years ago as part of their semi-annual 70mm fests. In its first-run, I saw it at the Avco Westwood on opening night expecting to see a 70mm-Cinema Digital Sound presentation but instead experienced what turned out to be the U.S. public premiere of digital sound sourced from a 35mm print.

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 07-10-2005, 08:35 AM:

Thanks Steve for the advice about the slates. I looped the head and tail leaders, one at a time, and found the i.d. information just ahead of the "2" pip on each spool. The tails were all mute. Both heads and tails had been cut back to the part title, so I dont know if there was anything else there originally. Did you mean that the tone at the actual pip gave you enough material to check channel level?

Thanks also to everyone else for the help. We've completed the season of 10 performances. The projector behaved itself, and we had comments from F.O.H. like "Wow the depth in that picture is amazing". A lot of our people were seeing 70mm for the first time, and were suitably impressed. We have "My Fair Lady", also in 70mm, booked for November, so I'm looking forward to seeing the screen results from a 65mm negative, although a little less enthusiastic about carrying it up the stairs.

Cheers!