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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-27-2005, 07:31 PM:
 
I am using Strong water circulators with Kinoton projectors. Before I go any farther, yes I know..."never buy anything from Wrong International". Given the price of the Kinoton circulators, I figured that since the Strong units are just a freakin' bucket and pump that even Strong couldn't screw that up. What a mistake that was! [Mad]

So anyway even though these Strong circulators are only a few months old, I have already had 2 failures between 12 brand new units!

The question now is has anyone devised some sort of failsafe alert for a water circulator that stops pumping? I am open to all ideas, as a 1 in 6 failure rate is pathetic...and they are still NEW!
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-27-2005, 07:58 PM:
 
quote: Brad Miller
..."never buy anything from Wrong International".

Yes a Weak Company for sure......

We build our own circulators for ALOT less than even the Kinoton costs you. We use an excellent pump, a heat exchanger with fan on a 15 gallon blue PVC tank. This keeps the gates at about what ever the room temperature is plus a little. There are photos someplace on this site of them.

I suggest that you build our own, servicing down the road would also be ALOT easier and faster but none have failed so far. If you need a parts list just call.

There are water pressure switches available from Graingers that will work for this application. The DP-70's originally came from the factory with a water pressure switch built into the base. It was far more critical in the days of Carbon Arc and Silver Jaws.

Mark
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-27-2005, 08:11 PM:
 
Can you recommend a specific one from Grainger so I can see exactly what you are referring to? I assume it is nothing more than a make or break circuit?
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-27-2005, 08:16 PM:
 
Brad,

I will look and see later tonight..... someone else may beat me to it. Yes, It was a DPST unit as I remember. We considered it but the pumps we use have yet to fail and there is so little evaporation.

Found three that would work depending on the static water pressure......

Pressure Switch 1
Switch 2 Switch 3

Mark
 
Posted by Dennis Udovich (Member # 1066) on 05-27-2005, 09:42 PM:
 
Interesting. I have a Strong water circulator for a Simplex Millennium projector with a 4K lamp that has been in use for five years with no problems. (Knock on wood).
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-27-2005, 10:43 PM:
 
quote: Dennis Udovich
I have a Strong water circulator for a Simplex Millennium projector with a 4K lamp that has been in use for five years with no problems. (Knock on wood).

I think you meant to say "Knock On Strong".....Water circulator it is but cool the water it does not. The water gets hotter and hotter it does.

Mark
 
Posted by Steven C Y Chan (Member # 2967) on 05-27-2005, 11:10 PM:
 
we had put one waterproof microswitch with a metal plate wedding on it, (just like the air-ven safety), we cut the return water tube a little bit so it is rise from water level, when the pump is working, the water falls on the plate and keep it on, if it is off, it short and start a alram. These is what we had done before.....we now using 2 from strong and one from local, which with a UK pump, only things is the water inside turn milkly and frog in the strong one. All we using still haven't fault before. (but only 2 years). touch wood [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-28-2005, 05:02 AM:
 
Agrreed, we've seen a lot of failures of the pumps used in the Strong coolers. However it's easily fixed by visiting the DIY warehouse that is inevitably situated alongside modern multiplex cinemas, and getting a garden pond pump of suitable capacity. All the ones I've replaced with pumps from B&W have run fine since.

As said above you can easily make them yourself using a big bucket, pump and hose from the DIY places.

Flow sensors are available from suppliers in the UK, Radio Spares have such things, but cheap they are not.
 
Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-28-2005, 09:45 AM:
 
Has anyone considered a gate thermistat/alarm circuit? I don't know if it would
be practical (I'm curious), but that way your alarm could be based on what you really want to know (is the gate overheating?) instead of one of many possible causes (e.g. pump is working fine but water is too hot).

Why do Strong's circulators fail, anyhow? Duty cycle issues? Heat?

--jhawk
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-28-2005, 01:38 PM:
 
...find some old Motiograph water circulators that plug in the wall and run continually. These work great! Just use distilled water in these can so to keep down the mineral buildup.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-28-2005, 02:49 PM:
 
I think one of the problems of the Strong circulator is that the pumps they use depend on the water to cool it...in an outdoor setting...this is quite reasonable...in a theatre...the water is just going to get hotter.

Before Strong aquired Century, they had a decent circulator...it used a TEEL pump that sat outside of the tank...then there was an impeller that stuck down in the tank just below the water line...thus sediment could settle and not be pumped around. We have had very few problems with these, so long as the water is changed every so often (I tend to use straight distilled and change more often, than to put anti-freeze in it and create a water hazard...plus I've never liked the results of antifreeze...it is like trading one problem for another. I know one guy that uses washer fluid. Kinoton has a nifty chemical that has the good properties of anti-freeze (keep bacteria from growing), plus a lubricant for the pump and is clear....hoses stay clear with it (even after years of use). It is freekin expensive though.

Also, Kinoton uses a flow meter on their 35/70 machines...no water flow...no worky projector.

The arrangement they are using now is the Century design.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-28-2005, 04:15 PM:
 
The "Wrong International" circulators around here in the Cineplex theatres are all just based on a tank of water and a "Silent Giant" pump..... about as cheap and unreliable as it gets. I wouldn't trust an aquarium full of fish to one of those pumps.

Mark
 
Posted by Jon Morgan (Member # 3059) on 05-28-2005, 05:59 PM:
 
We replaced our broken down ones with garden pumps from Home Depot. They were very reasonably priced and we've been running them on six screens for over six months with absolutely no problems.
 
Posted by Dick Twentyman (Member # 2746) on 05-29-2005, 04:42 AM:
 
Brad,

In general, using a vane operated flow switch is a safer option than a pressure switch to detect a cooling failure. In the case of a blockage, pressure can still be high but without coolant flow, so the pressure switch thinks that all is well. Some systems I have seen use both flow switch, backed up by a temperature sensor.
 
Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 05-29-2005, 03:22 PM:
 
Lots of theaters seems to use circulation systems. Is this for
practical reasons instead of connecting to the house water pipes?
Are these units having some kind of cooling system to prevent the
water from getting worm?

Thomas
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-29-2005, 03:23 PM:
 
Good tip Dick. Do you have a specific model or two that you have used and recommend?
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-29-2005, 04:08 PM:
 
Actually if one places the pressure sensor switch on the return hose down at the circulator there is little likelyhood of it getting plugged up.... Its the water block or dovetail that usually gets plugge and having the pressure switch in that line could prove useless.

Mark
 
Posted by Dick Twentyman (Member # 2746) on 05-29-2005, 09:47 PM:
 
Brad,

I have seen Honeywell vane switches used. You would need to be able to specify the possible range of flow rate (litres/second) required for safe operation. Honeywell would be able to nominate the correct part number.

Mark,

I agree with you on placing a pressure switch on the outflow side of the cooling system, but only if the whole system is pressurised. If water leaving the projector simply pours from the open end of the return pipe back into the cooling reservoir, then there would be not much more than normal atmospheric pressure on the return. This could be a bit unreliable - hence the use of a flow switch rather than a pressure switch.
 
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-30-2005, 01:38 AM:
 
quote: Thomas Jonsson
Lots of theaters seems to use circulation systems. Is this for practical reasons instead of connecting to the house water pipes?
It's for environmental reasons. Using continuously running tap water is a monumental waste of a natural resource and in most municipalities such use is illegal. We used to have air conditioning units that used tap water to carry heat away from the compressor instead of exhausting to the outside in situations where outside access is not possible. This type of air conditioner was very practical in terms of being able to easily cool rooms that had no outside access, but they were obscenely wasteful of our water supply. Laws were passed about 15yrs ago that made using these units illegal.

In NYC, the use of any device that would use continuously running municipal water to operate is now strictly regulated. They even passed regulations on how much water the commodes can use per flush. Everyone had to replace their toilet bowls with high effiency units that use about 1/3rd the amount of water as the older ones.

Water conservation is one of the reasons the movie industry moved to cyan soundtracks -- it cut down the amount of water needed to process the hundreds of thousands of feet of film processed every year.

Water is not an unlimited resource; we need to stop thinking of it as such.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-30-2005, 08:42 AM:
 
quote: Frank Angel
Everyone had to replace their toilet bowls with high effiency units that use about 1/3rd the amount of water as the older ones.
While the sale of new ones are regulated (and many import the higher flow ones), I was not aware of any law requiring the removal of the old toilets for the new ones. Personally, I feel before any politician makes such a law, THEY should have to live with their new regulation first (in their homes and work place). The new toilets, especially when they first came out didn't save water, they wasted it...it took several flushes.

quote: Frank Angel
Water is not an unlimited resource; we need to stop thinking of it as such.
Brainwashing though that sort of statement may be...short of shooting it off into space...it actually is pretty unlimited and renewable. It may need to be cleaned or desalinated and such but even in space they have learned to filter urine to reclaim the water rather than rely only on "fresh" water. Maybe not a pleasnt thought to some but a smart way of reusing (aka recycling).

I like filtered city water for projectors over mere re-circulation...now a water chiller is the real deal...it tightly regulates the water temperature (don't want condensation either) (imagine that...pulling water right out of the air). Now the environmental impact of a water chiller with its refrigerant and electric consumption verus using city water and filter I can't speak to.
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-30-2005, 12:18 PM:
 
Frank Angel wrote: "Water conservation is one of the reasons the movie industry moved to cyan soundtracks -- it cut down the amount of water needed to process the hundreds of thousands of feet of film processed every year."

Over 10 BILLION feet of print film is processed annually. That's why reducing water use in processing by about 50% with cyan dye tracks is so important.
 
Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 06-02-2005, 12:15 AM:
 
At the risk of sounding retarded and eliminating the "expert" from my title, I have to ask. [Wink] What is a water circulator used for on a projector? I have never seen or heard of it. It's obviously used for cooling, but cooling what exactly and what types of projectors require them?
 
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 06-02-2005, 05:00 PM:
 
quote: R. Andrew Diercks
It's obviously used for cooling, but cooling what exactly and what types of projectors require them?
The water is used to cool the film trap and/or the aperture when running high-wattage bulbs.

Any projector running 4000W or higher bulbs should have some type of cooling in place, be it water or forced air (some Simplex models had a forced-air cooled gate)

Most major projectors have an option for water cooling of their gates, some come standard with it.

-Aaron
 
Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 06-02-2005, 05:23 PM:
 
This would be why I have not seen one. Most wattage I've run is 3k. Largest auditorium is barely 300 seats.

Thanks for not making me look too stupid. I would wager that there were others out there wanting to ask though.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-02-2005, 07:20 PM:
 
quote: Aaron Sisemore
Any projector running 4000W or higher bulbs should have some type of cooling in place, be it water or forced air (some Simplex models had a forced-air cooled gate)

Christie is the only projector out there that is not available in a water cooled model. Alot of theatres regularly run lamps as high as 7kw through them with just the small muffin fan assist that they normally come with. Those runing higher wattage lamps will generally replace the shutter belt twice as often.

Mark
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-03-2005, 02:14 AM:
 
quote: John Pytlak
Over 10 BILLION feet of print film is processed annually. That's why reducing water use in processing by about 50% with cyan dye tracks is so important.

(..gonna drift a little off-topic here on the subject of the cyan tracks) -> If this process is so great and cost effective, then why haven't ALL of the labs converted over to cyan by now? Does it take special processing, or special equipment to do cyan processing?

Yes, we've seen Buena Vista and MGM (now SONY) dabble with the cyan printing, yet others still have the high magenta processing still at large - and that even includes all the trailer processing from all the labs...

(Whew..now, back on topic)

More pictures of water cooled devices -

..a picture of a water cooled lamphouse - with the cooler/recirculating pump behind the unit.

 -

..a picture of a 13Kw bulb that is a water cooled. Coolant goes through the ends of the bulb and help cool down the tungsten electrodes inside.

Takes a good hour or so to change one of these bad boys out. These are used in IMAX projectors..and other lighting devices.

 -

thx-Monte
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-03-2005, 01:17 PM:
 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
If this process is so great and cost effective, then why haven't ALL of the labs converted over to cyan by now? Does it take special processing, or special equipment to do cyan processing?

Same film, simpler processing (no need for soundtrack redeveloper application and water wash-off).

Distributors wanted to be sure it worked as well as predicted. Some also want to wait until less developed areas of the world have a higher percentage of red LED readers, as prints may be recycled into those territories.
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-03-2005, 01:34 PM:
 
quote: Frank Angel
Water is not an unlimited resource
Oh, but it is. Even when you flush the toilet, the water doesn't just disappear. [Razz] There are methods of recycling, even wastewater recovery. And let's not forget about the biggest water recycling system: rainstorms.
 
Posted by Dieter Depypere (Member # 3184) on 06-03-2005, 01:38 PM:
 
quote: John Pytlak
Some also want to wait until less developed areas of the world have a higher percentage of red LED readers, as prints may be recycled into those territories.
All (!) Austrian cinemas were committed to have LED readers installed (Were cinemas in other countries also committed?). We had 2 ordinary sound readers from "Siemens Klangfilm" installed on Philips FP6 projectors. The cinema leader had to pay a lot of money to have these units installed.
 
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-03-2005, 02:10 PM:
 
Maybe we should say 'drinkable water' is limited; that is, water that doesn't taste and smell like it came from a swimming pool. Only one thing to do I guess ... drink more [beer]
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-03-2005, 02:28 PM:
 
quote: Dieter Depypere
All (!) Austrian cinemas were committed to have LED readers installed (Were cinemas in other countries also committed?).

The National Association of Theatre Owners (NATO) made a committment:

http://www.dyetracks.org/reports/minutes/2002/Natl_Assoc_Of_TheatreOwners.html

quote:
Mary Ann Grasso, Vice-President and Executive Director of NATO confimed that at the recent Spring Board and Committee meeting held in Washington, D.C May 8-10, 2002 the NATO Technology Committee expressed continued support for the conversion to cyan dye track. The Committee suggested to the Board that NATO select a firm date by which NATO member theatres' would be fully equipped with red readers. The NATO Board of Directors recommended by unanimous approval that all theatres be properly equipped with red light readers by July 3rd, 2003.
http://www.dyetracks.org
 
Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 06-03-2005, 05:28 PM:
 
We at Oxford Movies in New Zealand, where we do one showing of a title about every two weeks, have red LED readers. I'm sure I recall JP saying NZ had 82% red LED reader penetration ages ago. We must be the most infrequent presenter in NZ, but we got there. NZ must be very close to "all cinemas are cyan capable". If a little community cinema like us can do it, everyone can.

And our gates are not water cooled. Though our previous projectors were originally (steam) traction engin driven...
 
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-03-2005, 06:31 PM:
 
Water cooling is not as neccessary on some projectors such as Christie, Ernemann and Kelmar kits since they are using an aircraft grade aluminum constuction which resists heat better than the more typical brass based gate material
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-03-2005, 08:22 PM:
 
I perform a large number of Kelmar gate upgrades to turret. The rear surface of these is nearly identical to the Christie (Kelmar built the early Christie projectors.)

The day finally came to use 4000 watt and the trap was REALLY hot.

The outcome is that we ended up modifying the Kelmar to water cooling. Because of the heavy aluminum (not brass) it actually worked better than the usual watercooled gate.

Louis
 
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-04-2005, 12:33 PM:
 
The aluminum works well on Dichoric glass reflectors or inefficently designed lamphouse / consoles with 4KW. One of our local dealers uses metal reflectors for 1 - 3 kw and goes to glass above this output with his projects with Christie projectors.
 
Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 06-10-2005, 04:18 PM:
 
Gentlemens,
I have a question:

What kind of mixture is recomendable to put in water circulating barrel ?

I've heard many options:

-Only distilled water
-Distilled water + Alcool (Brenspirit) (Sorry for my typping in English)
-Distilled water + Ethylene Glycool (Like in a car's cooling cuircuit)
-Normal water from the "valve" (the worst idea i mean)

In one of our theater, the Lamphouse is fitted with a 7kW xenon lamp, and the projectionist has to refil every 5 weeks the water tank !

Any idea is welcome !

Thanks, and sorry for my weak English !

Jean-Michel Grin
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-10-2005, 06:03 PM:
 
Jeam Michael, Some type of additive is necessary to prevent lime from building up. Weather you use anitforrze or the Kinoton additive(very expensive but the best)is up to you. If you use antifreeze I reccomend a 30/70 mix of antifreeze to distilled water.

If you can get de-ionized distilled water then you are in luck and can use that straight with no additives. When I worked the Transmitter at the TV station years ago we had our own still which made just enough de-ionized distilled water to keep the cooling system topped off. The transmitter cooling system used this water, pumped it through the Klystrons which converted it to steam... then a heat exchanger and condenser thurned it back into a liquid again. In practice very little was lost unless the cooling system spring a leak. We can be thankful that todays Xenon systems(Imax and CDC 15/70 systems excepted) dont require this sort of thing.

Mark
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-11-2005, 09:30 AM:
 
di ionized water will attack most metal parts especially brass and copper and just eat them away
 
Posted by Alan Dallas (Member # 2537) on 06-15-2005, 02:41 AM:
 
Heheh.. try opening the skate on a Kinoton PK60 after a 4k has been burning on it for 30 mins without water cooling. OUCH!

Actually, I've burned myself once on one of our 3k houses and found the tension rails melted. This was after a lamp had been changed out with a new one. Someone forgot to turn the amperage down and defocus the lamp a bit after they replaced it. *whistles innocently* [Shrug]

Oh and about de-ionoized water. It has the best thermal properties and doesn't leave desposits. I use it in my water cooled CPU cooler that's sitting right next to me. All Copper water block and radiator. However, do not use de-ionized water without a coolent additive w/anti-corrosive compounds in it. Any automotive coolent will work as long as you thin it out. It don't take much in a small PC water cooled system but on a apature cooler I would think a bit more would be applicable.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-15-2005, 09:09 AM:
 
quote: Alan Dallas
Oh and about de-ionoized water. It has the best thermal properties and doesn't leave desposits. I
Thats why its standard for use in extremely high power transmitters. No deposits or crud and most of those high power Klystrons actually get returned to the factury and rebuilt for use again.... you can't leave any deposits in them or you won't get any credit for the dud, just another bill for about $30,0000 for a unusable dud!

Gord,

The TTU-100 I worked with had ALL copper plumbing, and yes there was an additive in use but I couldn't tell you what the heck it was, it came from RCA.

Mark
 
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-15-2005, 10:19 AM:
 
OK, help me out. Is there ionized distilled water and deionized water? We just buy distilled water from the supermarket, and add a product called WaterWetter which is an automotive product used to increase heat transfer in the water cooling system -- it also stops corrosion and the gunk buildup.

BUT what Gordon said is just a wee bit scary for me -- I possibly am using deionized water which will eat away metal parts [Eek!] When I buy water and it just says Distilled Water, how can I tell if it is the kind that is gonna eat away my projectors?
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-15-2005, 11:27 AM:
 
Mark when cooling the 15K lamp the water is deionized to make it non conductive and all the additives I know of do create some leakage current
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-15-2005, 11:41 AM:
 
quote: Gordon McLeod
all the additives I know of do create some leakage current

Donno Gord, but if your cars cooling system exhibits more than about a volt or two of current leakage(measured fomr ground to the center of the fluid under the radiator cap with a dmm) any alumnium components in that cooling system will desintegrate pretty quiclky, so antifreeze in general has to be pretty void of that problem. The Klystrons water jacket was alot differnt from todays 15k lamps and was also all copper. Copper was used because conducts heat the best......

I suspect this is one of the advantages of the Kinoton additive which is so expensive and it might just be the same stuff thats used in transmitters.
 
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-15-2005, 08:41 PM:
 
The leakage current mentioned isn't from an electrochemical potential. Gord is right that water cooled xenon lamps require distilled water plus constant processing through a deionizing filter to keep the water conductivity as low as possible. The water circulates through both lamp electrodes in a relatively short bit of plumbing. High conductivity water - loaded with ions scavenged from the pump and plumbing - causes a leakage current through the water during lamp ignition. A deionising filter that's used up allows the water to "short out" the ignitor and the lamp becomes progressively harder to strike as ions build up.
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-16-2005, 01:33 PM:
 
Pure water has very few conductive ions. Even slight impurities add ions, that mostly can be removed by deionization:

http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_05.htm

quote:
Familiar tap water or river water contains various substances. So, it is not actually pure water (). Of course, tap water is fine for household use. For scientific research or industrial engineering, however, we sometimes need highly pure water.

As we try to make pure water by gradually removing electrolytes, its conductivity gradually decreases. So, if all electrolytes are removed, will its conductivity become zero? No. Why? Because an infinitesimal part of the molecules of water--only about one in 500 million--is ionized as hydrogen ions () and hydroxide ions (). Theoretically, at this point, the conductivity becomes 0.0548 µS/cm at 25 °C.

The conductivity of water used in the production of VLSIs in the semiconductor industry is below 0.06 µS/cm-- that's water of very high purity indeed. Such water is referred to as ultrapure water. Without going to such an ultrapure level, conductivity of water can be lowered to below 1 µS/cm through a process of deionization. Such water is called ion-exchanged water or deionized water. When we talk about pure water, we refer to water of this level of purity. When water comes in contact with air, carbon dioxide is dissolved in water, causing its conductivity to rise by about 1 µS/cm. This does affect the conductivity of pure water.

http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_03.htm
http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_02.htm

quote:
Thus, resistivity becomes an index of difficulty of flow of electric current. And the reciprocal of resistivity (1/resistivity) is conductivity. So, conductivity becomes an index of ease of flow of electric current. Its unit is written S/cm, meaning siemens per centimeter. Also, 1/1000 S/cm is a called millisiemens per centimeter, and 1/1000 of a millisiemens per centimeter is a microsiemens per centimeter.


 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-16-2005, 02:50 PM:
 
It always amazed me how water didn't conduct carbon contacts to ground, in those systems fed by city supplies. They always dumped into a sink, or outside the booth on the ground.
 
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-16-2005, 08:23 PM:
 
I worked at a semiconductor plant in Ottawa about 30 years ago, and we could get all sorts of interesting stuff to play with... I mean use in our work. Liquid helium is interesting stuff. Ultrapure water actively attacks some materials, acting sort of like an acid and alkali simultaneously. We had some rubber stoppers that, if placed in a beaker of ultrapure water, would fizz and bubble like mad for a few seconds until the water was not so ultrapure.
 
Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 06-16-2005, 10:02 PM:
 
I've seen some booths use a water circulator with Gorman-Rupp or Gorman-Rupp Industries brand pumps- http://www.gripumps.com
click on products & then centrifugal pumps- with low failure rate under nomal use.
 
Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 05-10-2006, 08:20 PM:
 
I just got a new Kinoton with a Ballantyne water circulator, so now I'll bump this back up to ask a question. For those of you using some automotive additive, how often are you changing out the water completely? Do you see it turning thick or gunky after awhile? I'm using distilled water, do you have any problem with algae or any other molds?
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2006, 09:25 AM:
 
Warm water can encourage the growth of algae or mold. At the very least, use a biocide additive like the ones used in portable household humidifiers. Some projectionists use dilute ethylene glycol automotive antifreeze, which usually also has corrosion inhibitors.
 
Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 05-11-2006, 10:14 AM:
 
any problem mixing the two?
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2006, 10:31 AM:
 
If you decide to use dilute automotive antifreeze, it should also inhibit biological growth.
 
Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 05-11-2006, 02:33 PM:
 
I have a "wrong" international pump which just kicked the bucket and the breaker panel too.

Anyway, I want to get rid of the antifreeze fluid which is now polluted with burnt up submersible pump particles. Does anyone know how to dispose of this liquid?
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2006, 03:14 PM:
 
Some anti-freeze manufacturers have recycling programs:

EPA Ethylene Glycol letter

quote:
This request was posed in order in the context of a spent antifreeze recycling program, wherein
spent antifreeze generated from radiator flushes done at automobile service centers (specifically,
Valvoline Instant Oil Change stores) is collected, stored and sent for recycling at Union Carbide’s
Glycol Recovery Unit in Institute, West Virginia. The specific questions you raised relate to the
practical difficulties of generating and characterizing spent antifreeze, where one radiator flush may be
hazardous and the next flush nonhazardous...

You might be able to have it properly recycled by your local automobile service shop:

http://www.forsea.org/pugetsoundbook/carcare.html

quote:
Disposing of antifreeze is also a problem. Antifreeze contains ethylene glycol which is poisonous to fish, wildlife and people. Many cats and dogs have died after drinking the sweet tasting puddles of antifreeze left on driveways. Do not dispose of antifreeze down storm drains, instead ask you local service station to add the liquid to their used anti-freeze storage drum. If your household is connected to a central sewer system, call your wastewater utility for specific guidance in disposing of anti-freeze.
http://www.colorado-recycles.org/referencelibrary/recyclingtips/anitfreeze.html

quote:
A Wonderful, But Hazardous, Product

Antifreeze is hazardous. Ethylene glycol is a toxic chemical that requires proper handling, storage and disposal to avoid harming humans, animals and the environment. One of the properties of ethylene glycol is that it is a sweet-tasting liquid which makes it attractive to animals and small children. Unfortunately, it is very poisonous and each year thousands of dogs, cats and other animals die from lapping up pools of antifreeze that have accumulated on streets and in parking areas. There have been many cases of human poisonings and deaths over the years, predominantly among small children. The Centers for Diseases Control and Prevention provides a considerable amount of useful information about poisonings and poisoning prevention on its website at http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/poisoning.htm .

As a broad generalization, orange colored antifreeze is an indication that the antifreeze is manufactured for more extended uses, and has a longer service life than does green antifreeze. However, under no circumstances should green and orange antifreezes be mixed together because the enhanced properties of the orange antifreeze will be diminished.

Used antifreeze may also contain levels of dissolved heavy metals that can be toxic to animal life and may contaminate soils, water and sediments. If ethylene glycol biodegrades in large quantities, it can deplete the levels of dissolved oxygen in surface waters, killing aquatic organisms. Antifreeze picks up many contaminants from engine operation in addition to some heavy metals. It will also pick up toxins such as benzene. That is why antifreeze must be tested to determine whether or not it falls under the classification as being a hazardous waste.



 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 10-13-2007, 09:28 AM:
 

It has been 519 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Jeffry Wilde (Member # 4514) on 10-13-2007, 09:28 AM:
 
I have never had a problem with one.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-13-2007, 12:40 PM:
 
That's awesome, and I know you are new since this is your first post, but could you not go dredging up two year old threads when you have nothing to add to them?
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-13-2007, 06:54 PM:
 
quote: Jeffry Wilde
I have never had a problem with one.

You will eventually!

Mark
 




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