Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 'Spies Like Us' Sound Format

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Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 06-16-2005, 12:42 PM:

I asked about this in March in the feature specs & trailer category. I didn't get the info I was seeking and I didn't wish to start asking questions there given the "no questions" policy. So here's another attempt.

To be specific, I am wondering if anyone recalls or has any documentation laying around concering the sound format of "Spies Like Us"? This title has no Dolby logo in its credits or on any of its promotional material I have seen. OK, fine, so it may have been mono. (Odd for a major studio film by '85, but I realize there were a handful of studio-produced mono films even going into the late 80s.) And the (35mm) show I attended was in indeed mono. But...this film had some 70mm blow-up prints for selected markets. (This was one of the few titles from its era that I did NOT see in 70mm, nor have I handled a print at any time then or since.) In checking some newspaper ads, no soundtrack notations are present, just a generic "70mm" blurb. Odd.

The question is: what the hell sound format were the 70mm prints in??? They wouldn't have been mono, would they?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 06-16-2005, 03:14 PM:

It was likely dual-inventory 35mm, and the 70mm prints had Dolby A tracks.

A similar discussion happened here (that apparently you chimed in on saying that there couldn't have been any stereo prints) [Big Grin]

concerning the film 'The Breakfast Club' which also has no sound format logo on the poster, but Brad and myself *and possibly a few others) had personally handled a Dolby A print of that one (I also have handled a mono BC print, FWIW...)

-Aaron

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 06-16-2005, 03:41 PM:

The Adart marquee at the Bruin Theatre in Westwood, only had 70MM noted. It has no sound format listed. During that time Warner Bros. features opening in Westwood and Hollywood theatres used Adart marquees. When then released a film in 70MM in those First Run areas, they always used the Presented in 70MM Dolby 6-Track Stereo on those marquees. Just to show that it was a special engagement in 70MM. I photographed many of those theatres for Warner during the mid 80's. Michael has seen some of the photos in my booth here of Westwood and Hollywood.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 06-16-2005, 08:40 PM:

The last major release with a mono soundtrack was "The Naked Gun" in 1988. There were a few films from smaller studios after that, the only "new" mono print I've personally handled was "The Brothers McMullen" from Fox Searchlight- it was labeled "MONO" but the Fox Fanfare at the beginning was in stereo, so I ran it in mono or stereo depending on what mood I was in day to day [Smile]

I have Spies Like Us on laserdisc and CED and they're both in mono. So THAT got a 70mm release, but NOTHING can this year???

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-16-2005, 09:21 PM:

I remember seeing the same 70mm ads for "Spies Like Us" in New York Times microfilms. No Dolby notation listed. Never saw an actual 70mm showing of the film. Wasn't this a standard "flat" 1.85:1 movie? It wasn't filmed anamorphic. Without the need for having a very colorful looking print of 'scope-originated material, I could not see any other need for this movie to use 70mm other than the magnetic 6-track sound.

I also recall seeing the same 70mm-only notation for the 1990 release of "The Sound of Music." The generic term "6-track stereo" was applied to the ads I saw in New York.

Another one I've wondered about was "70mm Ultra Stereo" releases. Wasn't the movie "Cobra" promoted in this format?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-17-2005, 08:06 AM:

Cobra was indeed a 70mm Ultra-Stereo release. There are several Ultra Stereo releases out there (somewhere I have a T-shirt that has many of them listed on the back). Many, though not all, Ultra Stereo releases were what one would term "B-flicks" and of the slasher or strange variety.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 06-18-2005, 03:40 AM:

Ultra Stereo was used on a lot of those crappy Golan/Globus-produced movies from Cannon. And I think one or two of the "Friday The 13th" flicks, too.

Aaron... no need to use the F/U smiley grin. If you refer back to that "Breakfast Club" discussion, you'll see that I merely stated reasons as to why I had been under the impression that movie was mixed and released in mono. And even if it was in stereo, that doesn't explain why all of its subsequent video versions were mono. If it had been in stereo, that whole Lt-Rt matrix business, which is embedded in the master, would automatically carry over. (The most recent DVD has a remixed 5.1 track, but the initial DVD was mono. Hughes' "16 Candles" received similar DVD remaster treatment.)

Aaron... do you own a personal print of "Spies Like Us" or "The Breakfast Club"? If you do not own a print, have access to a print or have documentation, then you posted your specs based on memory.... which prompts the question of what's the guarantee you're remembering the details correctly?

(Any F-T pack rats have the original "Projectionist's Notes" enclosure for either of these titles laying around?)

So allow me to rephrase my original question: Am I the only one who finds it peculiar that "Spies Like Us" was advertised in "70mm" rather than "70mm six-track Dolby Stereo" (or some variation of that term) like the other '80s era 70mm releases? Could it (1) really have been 70mm-mono, or (2) in a "no-name-brand" stereo format that was Dolby compatible, or (3) in six-track Dolby but someone screwed up and forgot to include the "Dolby Stereo in selected theatres" logo in the credits and on the film's promotional materials and in the newspaper ads in all of the half-dozen markets I've checked?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-18-2005, 11:24 AM:

Just speculation, but my guess is the show was produced in a no name, seemingly generic process with a Format 42 compatible mix on the film print. The previous mention of the 25th anniversary "The Sound of Music" 70mm print shows other non-Dolby examples happened.

My feeling is Warner Bros. made a decision at the very late stages of production to do a 70mm blow up release. I think the studio wanted the mag soundtrack to pump up the quality of the Elmer Bernstein music score and in particular the title track performed by Paul McCartney. Gawd, I remember MTV playing the music video for that one to death late in 1985 (seemed like it played at least once every freaking hour).

Another reason why I think the music was a primary consideration for the 70mm print is that John Landis made other hits in the 1980's originally in mono, such as "Animal House," "Trading Places" and "An American Werewolf in London" for instance. "Spies Like Us" may have been produced in the mindset that it would be released in mono as well. The production audio may have been done without any Dolby NR and post production may not have used any of it either. It might have still been a standard stereo mix. But it really seems like the 70mm thing was a last minute consideration. It would be kind of interesting to find out.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 06-21-2005, 10:31 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Just speculation, but my guess is the show was produced in a no name, seemingly generic process with a Format 42 compatible mix on the film print.

You may be correct, though this brings us back to the situation similar to "The Breakfast Club" where the 1986 video versions were mono.

Anyone have the DVD? We had a copy at "the magazine" and I seem to recall noting that the jacket claims a stereo track (2.0) and thought "Hey, wait a minute, I thought this movie was mono." But I never ended up watching it, probably since it was not in widescreen and probably looked like crap given it was among Warner's budget titles which tended to be recycled transfers.

quote: Bobby Henderson
The previous mention of the 25th anniversary "The Sound of Music" 70mm print shows other non-Dolby examples happened.

This seems like an apples and oranges comparison since "The Sound Of Music" was produced in an era where stereo mixes did not have "brand" names. (Yes, I realize "Westrex" and "RCA" often appeared in title sequences though these weren't promoted as "formats" to the public.)

quote: Bobby Henderson
Another reason why I think the music was a primary consideration for the 70mm print is that John Landis made other hits in the 1980's originally in mono, such as "Animal House," "Trading Places" and "An American Werewolf in London" for instance. "Spies Like Us" may have been produced in the mindset that it would be released in mono as well.

I already considered the possibility that Landis may be one of those strange "I hate unnecesary embellishments like stereo (and widescreen)" kind of directors. His "Into The Night" was mono and released the same year as "Spies Like Us." But..."The Blues Brothers" (1980) and "Twilight Zone The Movie" (1983) had some stereo prints. And everything from "Coming To America" (1988) onward have been in stereo (though these may have been due to studio policy since stereo mixes were pretty much the norm by the late-80s).

quote: Bobby Henderson
But it really seems like the 70mm thing was a last minute consideration. It would be kind of interesting to find out.

Something tells me that you and I are the only two people on the planet who give a damn about this stuff. [Smile]

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 07-06-2005, 12:51 PM:

Michael Coate has requested that I share my memory of seeing SPIES LIKE US in 70mm. (Disclaimer: I have not personally handled the print nor have I seen a projectionist's instruction sheet).

I saw it at the Bruin Theatre in Los Angeles, CA. It was a very lackluster stereo mix, limited to the music, with maybe a couple of “fly-over” effects. I don’t think more than a couple of token effects came out of anything but center. I seem to remember more about the presentation than the actual film, though!

I also, like Bobby Henderson and Michael Coate stated above, remember the ads only stating that the film was in 70mm with no soundtrack information (although this doesn't really need to be from our memories, as microfilm of the newspapers are readily available).

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 07-09-2005, 11:21 AM:

FWIW, "Tapeheads," my second fav. John Cusack film, was an Ultra Stereo release, 1988.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 06-02-2007, 07:16 AM:

It has been 692 days since the last post.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-02-2007, 07:16 AM:

Is there a good way to search the print ads? I seem to recall showing Spies Like Us in 70mm at the K-B Fine Arts (1313 M St. NW, Washington DC) so the ad would have been in the Washington Post.

If my memory is correct that was in 70mm there then it would have been shown in format 42.

There have been other odd, no mention of the soundtrack films like Uncommon Valor that had no mention of the soundtrack on the leaders but inspection of the film showed non-identical soundtracks and played in multichannel audio on a CP50 just fine...I don't think I ever saw a sound format logo on the film either....it was a long time ago and I still remember that about the film.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 06-02-2007, 07:50 AM:

UMI/Proquest offers a series of historical newspaper databases for The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, The Chicago Tribune, The Atlanta Constitution, The Los Angeles Times, and The Wall Street Journal. If you're lucky, you have access to a research library who subscribes to the service.

They have 1bpp-scanned PDFs of the newspaper (including ads) that have been OCRd for indexing purposes. Unfortunately, the OCR quality of the ads (with so much varied type) is particularly poor. So if you're willing to browse sections of the paper on likely dates, this can be a helpful tool, and more convenient than microfilm.

The Dec. 6, 1985 full page opening day ad (p. WE36) has no mention of 70mm but does list the K-B Fine Arts. By January 11, it was showing Prizzi's Honor.

--jhawk

p.s.: movie directory in the Post says 1919 not 1313.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-02-2007, 09:55 AM:

Hmmm...well 1919 M is indeed correct (it was attached to the FCC building) so my memory already has a strike against it. I distinctly remember showing the film there so I get a point there...but I'm not sure about it being in 70mm though I seem to recall running it on the Norleco (the Fine Arts had one Simplex XL and One DP70 by that time...70mm played on the Norelco and most all of the 35mm played on the XL). I'm perfectly willing to accept that the theatre did not play it in 70mm if the Post doesn't list it as such...another page in the post to look at is the "Movie Directory". We (K-B) would make the notation of the the 70mm in the theatre's little box if it was playing as such. If it wasn't there either...then we played it in 35mm. If K-B still existed, there might have been the Film Inspection Report that might have still existed on it too...each film was required to have one.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-02-2007, 10:05 AM:

quote: John Hawkinson
UMI/Proquest offers a series of historical newspaper databases for The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, The Chicago Tribune, The Atlanta Constitution, The Los Angeles Times, and The Wall Street Journal. If you're lucky, you have access to a research library who subscribes to the service.

That seems like yet another service Google could gobble up.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 06-02-2007, 05:47 PM:

quote:
quote: John Hawkinson
UMI/Proquest offers a series of historical newspaper databases for The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, The Chicago Tribune, The Atlanta Constitution, The Los Angeles Times, and The Wall Street Journal. If you're lucky, you have access to a research library who subscribes to the service.
That seems like yet another service Google could gobble up.

Except unless you find a way to OCR the text, you can't really search on it. In my many discussions with Michael Coate, he has challenged my memory, so I've sometimes gone back to check the ads in the NY Times and was frequently surprised to see incomplete or non-existant format information in the ad in the Times. For some films, the only way I would have known they were in 70mm was either an ad in the Times or an ad in the Village Voice. So I suspect that a lot of format information only showed up in the Voice. One day I'll try to find the microfilm and check it out.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 06-02-2007, 08:47 PM:

Martin, UMI/Proquest has already OCRed the text.

--jhawk