Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Wrong Parts !

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Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-17-2005, 12:19 PM:

A frustrating business.
One of our Mod6 units failed and we ordered some exchange parts from the company. The parts came (which were the only two boards inside the unit), we put it ON and walla!! No sound coming out. Everything is lighten e.t.c e.t.c, a technician going nuts on what is supposed to be the problem and then a call to the "Smart" guys. Answer after 30 minutes of long discussion "Well U know the new boards you need to link +15V to the +5V and cancel the +5V on the power connection on the back because the new Audio Matrix works with 15V". THANKS FOR TELLING US!!!
D

Note: Edited only for Brad to be HAPPY!!

[ 06-18-2005, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: Demetris Thoupis ]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-17-2005, 01:52 PM:

Demetris, the clock is ticking on how much longer this thread exists with it's bs subject title. tick tick tick tick tick......

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 06-17-2005, 03:02 PM:

That was done a couple of years ago when they started changing the matrix cards. I'm surprised they didn't send a note with the replacement parts. Then again, I'm not really surprised. [Wink]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-17-2005, 03:30 PM:

Yes, give your new topic heading a definite subject title like "Wrong parts" or anything definite..no 'teaser' headings that keeps us in the dark on what you're talking about.

Been there, done that -wrong parts.

-Monte

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 06-17-2005, 03:56 PM:

If there was any question that you were using a VERY early version of the matrix card, then there is a piece of documentation that should have gone out with the new matrix card indicating the exact procedure to change the power supply connections. I know such documentation exists, because I wrote it when I was with SMART.

Posted by Robert Harrison (Member # 3202) on 06-17-2005, 04:55 PM:

Just to add...Smart processors BLOW. We bought two of those units for the Circle Surround which we intalled in our tiny houses (200 and 100 seats). The steering "logic" was anything but logical. The sound was always bobbing back and forth between the center and the left and right. Thinking it might be a problem with our LED reader, I brought in my laserdisc player (yeah, this was a few years ago) and plugged it into the non-sync inputs. I set the balance and listened and the same damn thing happened! Even on MONO sources it would shift around. As the 100 seater was a front-surround setup (one screen channel), I had no problems there, but in the 200 seater, my only recourse was to change the internal jumper to change that house to front-surround only, leaving the left and right channels unused. Since then, one unit went bad and we replaced it with a (used) CP65 with an outboard SR adapter (which our tech has yet to hook up to the CP65 after about two years; such is the way the owner-managers here keep up on things, other than their personal vacations).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-17-2005, 06:36 PM:

Robert,
Smart processors don't exactly blow, Smart was especially well run at the time that unit was produced! Remember that you paid a fraction for them of the cost of either the Panastereo CSP-1200, or an actual Dolby CP-650 processor..... or even the used CP-65 you bought. You got what you paid for and then some [Big Grin]

. I would be more likely to blame your problems on your tech and your Boss than anyone else, least of all on Smart Devices.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Robert Harrison (Member # 3202) on 06-18-2005, 01:50 AM:

Well, Mark, I do like to blame things on my boss. And I did make a mistake, which I'll bet you were wondering about; we have a CP55, and I erroneously typed CP65 (we have one of those, too, in a 280 seat house). I'm sure you wondered why we would need an outboard SR adapter for a 65. After sending in my 2 cents, I read some old forums and knew I was going to get bashed for besmirching Smart. I can't pick on SDDS because we don't have any of their processors around here. Anyway, is it possible that we just had a bad unit? Have you personally heard a MOD VI with Circle Surround? Eons ago (it seems), we had an original SR130 (I think that was the number) with a 230 Dual Projector Expander and a 330 Surround Delay at our 1400 seat house. In that case, the steering logic was pretty much non-existent, except for a discreet sounding surround channel. And, yes, cost was the issue, as Smart did provide an inexpensive way for us to go stereo at that time, when admissions were $1.50 per person. I do remember an old 80s article written by somebody at Smart about how to tell if your decoder is working right. I thought that kind of amusing, seeing as their Dyna-Span circuit wasn't doing much in the way of front channel separation. (But, again, in those days, we had other techs who were of the "Let's get this installed and beat feet out of here" type.) I would have preferred that to the annoying shifting the logic was doing. I would like to hear from you or anyone who has had experience with these processors.

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-18-2005, 02:59 AM:

Well we installed several here in Cyprus and I admit I was impressed with these little devils. Then again. Remember that SR demo film with the bee going round in Circles. This unit actually Circles it!! I've installed the thing back last night (from 2300 hours until 0330 in the morning) and guess what! The guys at Smart even changed the L+ and L- connections for the projectors by swapping them. It took me about 40 minutes to find out. Thanks again for telling us. They removed the HF trimpots for the Sound Readers and even though the system plays more than satisfying, I get a lot of "shhhhhhhhhhhhh" sound during the silent moments. They installed jumpers at the possition the original HF pots were. I am thinking of maybe puting some potentiometers and try lowering the HF gain of the LED reader to eliminate the "shhhhhhhhhh" sound. Will it work?
D

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-18-2005, 07:28 AM:

quote: Robert Harrison
we have a CP55, and I erroneously typed CP65

Thats ok, the 55 is still a good unit and fully upgradable to SR with the Panastereo SR adaptor and split surrounds with a CAT 441 as well.

Those early Smart processors were very basic. The only one I never really cared for was the SR-300, the one with the big meter on the front. It woulda been nice to have better circuitry instead of the meter....... The small SR120 type units were EXTEMELY basic circuits but those got Smart off the ground so to say and on to designing better things. Overall we have little problems with their stuff and it typically serves small mom and pop/weekend only operations through out Utah, Montana, and Idaho.

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-18-2005, 12:02 PM:

The reason the slit loss pots are gone is due to noise that could get generated with the reverse scan readers and in there place was a fixed low pass filter
They are not needed with a good reverse scan If you use a solar celll then you have to specify that and you will get a board with those pots in place

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 06-18-2005, 01:26 PM:

Demetris,

There were 2 MOD 6 versions, one for solar cells and one for red led reverse scan readers. The one without the hf trimpots was for reverse scan. The trimpots and some caps were removed which eliminates the hf slit loss correction circuitry. If all is well with the red led reader, then no hf correction is really needed. This cleaned up the sound a bit also. So, adding these parts back in will not solve your noise problem. I really don't know where that is coming from.

Demetris said:

quote: Demetris Thoupis
The guys at Smart even changed the L+ and L- connections for the projectors by swapping them. It took me about 40 minutes to find out. Thanks again for telling us.

It has been more than a few years since the MOD 6 was designed, but the best I can recall is that the input connections remained the same since the beginning. As far as swapping the L+ and L- connections, I never did that, so something strange is going on there. Is it possible that some one wired it wrong from the beginning? This is probably not the case because I think you would have heard some very strange steering long before now, but I can't think of anything else.

Robert said:

quote: Robert Harrison
After sending in my 2 cents, I read some old forums and knew I was going to get bashed for besmirching Smart.

I worked at SMART for over 21 years. We made our share of mistakes over that period of time. I suppose most manufacturers make their share of mistakes too. It is perfectly OK for you to bash if you feel it is needed.

I consider myself very fortunate that in the time I worked there, most people on this forum did not feel the need to bash SMART too much. Believe me, they could have. I tried to be very accessible to anyone who needed help with problems, and I made a genuine effort to address concerns and issues whenever they appeared. I might have failed more than I succeeded, but I did all I could in the time available to solve problems. I wanted to make sure as much as possible that people would not feel the need to bash SMART. I certainly hope that attitude continues in my absence, because I am certain that the success of any company is strongly dependent on how a company views and treats its customers and LISTENS to them.

Thanks so much for all YOUR support over the years.

Posted by Mike Babb (Member # 1379) on 06-18-2005, 09:18 PM:

Smart and specifically Oscar have been very helpful when I have had problems in the past. You tend to find out who's most helpful when you ask for help on their oldest equipment. As helpful and possibly more helpful than any other manufacturer. We have a good number of them, many different models in the state and while they aren't best they aren't too bad and apparently someone got their money's worth.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-19-2005, 04:07 AM:

quote:
Note: Edited only for Brad to be HAPPY!!

If you're going to use sarcasm on the forum, it really should...
#1 be funny, and
#2 not be due to your violation of the forum policies.

Be sure and read those rules before you post again.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-19-2005, 09:24 AM:

I checked around the various vintages of mod6 and none have the L+ and L- terminals reversed here and I think we probably have one of every vintage

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-19-2005, 10:02 AM:

Sorry Brad.
Won't happen again. But still. Does anyone have any idea how to eliminate that disturbing sound which more or less is like the very high frequencies of the pink tone!
D

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-19-2005, 12:41 PM:

What is the response of the reader look like I would tend to lean toward that as being the problem

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-21-2005, 12:32 AM:

BACP reverse scan reader on a V4. Was installed a few months ago with the best of results. No problem. Sounded perfect. After the boards though were changed this problem came up. I installed this weekend in another screen the Prevost model of the reverse scan from BACP with a SMART MOD VI again (old board) and has no problem what so ever.
Any ideas?
D

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-21-2005, 03:21 PM:

Are these racks near each other? If so....run audio cable from the good projector to the bad rack. Then try the reverse. You will need 2 pair of 2 conductore shielded wire. Don't bother to retune the A chains. Just do this as an experiment.

This will clarify the question: is it the soundhead/reader or is ti the processor.

Louis

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-21-2005, 04:15 PM:

Well Louis!
I need about 78 km of Cable to connect the "good" rack with the "bad" rack since we are talking about different city installations here.
D

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-21-2005, 07:55 PM:

Sorry about that!