This is topic DTS XD10 - discs are not a set error in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2005, 08:30 PM:
 
What's the fix for this? XD10 unit will work perfectly on a single disc movie, but on a two disc movie, it refuses to load the material to the hard drive because it thinks that the two discs are not a set. Have tried a dozen different A and B disc features. Firmware is V1.01.16
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-13-2005, 10:38 PM:
 
even though I'm not familiar with the XD-10, yet makes one wonder if it's trying to copy the executable files and boot records from each disk, which are the same files with the same extender on each disk, thus causing some sort of conflict of sort, thus kicking out the install on the 2nd disc.

Wonder, if one imaged the first disc to a computer HDD completely, then copied the 2nd disc the long way (meaning not coping the executable file from the 2nd disc to the HDD), then burnt each disc separately - 1st one with the executable/boot files and the 2nd one without the excutable/boot files-just the data files. Then see if the XD-10 will accept this.

..and use rewritables if possible

..worth a try.... - Monte
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2005, 11:08 PM:
 
Nah, that's WAY too much effort! Besides the XD10 is designed to hold 30+ features at once. I'm only trying to load half a dozen. Something is wrong. Hopefully someone else on here has encountered the issue and knows the fix.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-13-2005, 11:24 PM:
 
..wonder if the HDD is experiencing some bad sectors then...

Good luck on this one.. - Monte
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 07-14-2005, 02:01 AM:
 
I had this happen with Titanic. There were two sets of CDs - the Domestic, and the International versions. I think between the two sets, the B disks were the same, and the A disks were different. But regardless, when I tried to load the CDs, I got the "Disks are not a set" error.

I was able to load them somehow, though. It was a while ago, and I'm trying to remember how I did it. I think I may have loaded them up individually. Have you tried that?

That doesn't explain why it's doing it for you on every movie you try. That sounds like something is wrong... or confused.

Monte,

I believe the XD10 runs linux, not DOS, so I dont think it needs to be concerned with the executables.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-14-2005, 03:01 AM:
 
Thx, as I mentioned, I'm not familiar with the XD-10 - just stuck with DTS-6 and DTS-6D units as for now. Yet, I've heard that they now operate on Linux instead of the old DOS based units.

Here's a paste for Brad based on info on his original inquiry that I found that might help out some:

quote:

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Getting back to current DTS films and playback, the DTS-6 and DTS-6D must have V1.46 TCR chip installed. DTS-6AD must have software version 2.06, XD10 software version 1.01.17. With out these updates the DTS will drop out and not play after two minutes of the reel.

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-Monte
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-14-2005, 05:47 AM:
 
Brad,

Have you confirmed that the XD-10 didn't load both disks anyway? I seem to recall that even in the manual it cautions that the XD-10 would give a bogus error but would load just fine. Also the XD-10 will work with partials. That is, if one reel/file is corrupt it will play the rest in digital and only fault during the bad file. Thus, I'm surprised that it would wig out too bad on even "non-set" discs.

[update after checking with the manual]....it does give the reasons for "not a set" and it is a condition when you have both discs loading at the same time and it thinks you have two "A"s or two "B"s or different languages and such. From what I can tell, you can tell the XD10 to load the disc anyway (right arrow).
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-14-2005, 10:42 AM:
 
Yeah Steve, I checked. All it does is load the trailers. Seeing how much time it took to load the data from a one disc movie vs. a couple of seconds to eject the discs on a "not a matched set" error, there is simply no way it actually loaded the feature data.

(Note to dts - please add a new option under the DELETE menu to "delete all trailers". Currently if I want to wipe the trailers from the hard drive but leave the features, I have to run through and delete every single trailer one by one. )
 

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Posted by Mike B. Smith (Member # 2829) on 07-14-2005, 12:58 PM:
 
What you have a problem with deleting hundreds of trailers one at a time???
Your right it should work just like the features don’t know why this was overlooked. Currently you can delete single features and single trailers, you can delete all features or all contents including features and trailers but you can’t delete just all trailers at once. It will be recommended to change this in the next update.
Regarding disc load errors on the XD10, first the software version does not affect the loading of the discs, different error messages may appear and normally state the problem, however the problem could also be elsewhere, Example “Installed discs are not a set” this is to point out that a matched “A” & “B” may not be installed in the drives. However it could also be that one of the drives may be having problems reading one of the discs. This may be caused by a bad disc or problem drive. From personal experience when this has happened to me I have done different things to get the discs to load, first was to swap A & B discs around, if this did not work I would ignore the warning message and press enter, this forces the XD10 to accept what ever it can read from the disc. If a bad drive is suspected, use the good drive and load each disc individually, doing this you will get an error message but simply press enter to ignore. On one occasion I received a message about bad data on the disc and had a choice to abort or continue loading. Choosing continue will load all readable data, however some audio may be missing. If this is done and the feature is played back the XD10 will drop to analog when no data can be found, similar to a timecode fault. I have also found that if you load the same reported bad disc in another drive it will load the missing data.
 

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Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 07-14-2005, 01:03 PM:
 
I had this problem once, but there was indeed an option to "load discs anyway." Perhaps in my situation the XD10 had different reasons for (incorrectly) thinking they were not a set, since this only happened once.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-14-2005, 01:12 PM:
 
It's not a bad drive. No luck in using only one drive to load the feature with the "load anyway" command. It still refuses to load up anything but the trailers.

(It would figure...the trailers are the one thing I don't want loaded.)

One feature you may want to consider when you are implementing that "delete all trailers" feature is a "lock" command. For example, if you are a Regal theater and have THX, you could go in and "lock" the various THX logos and the Regal policy trailer logo. Then when "delete all trailers" was selected, it wouldn't dump the THX and Regal audio. That "lock" feature could also be a handy feature for places like universities, where they may have a few dozen dts films in their library and they don't ever want the feature audio for those deleted, but it would be ok for the XD10 to self-delete one-time shows not in their library.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-14-2005, 06:13 PM:
 
Sounds like you should plug in a monitor and keyboard and debug the file loading (use strace!). Certainly you could implement those kinds of lock & deletion features yourself...

--jhawk
 

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Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 06-22-2007, 03:54 AM:
 

It has been 707 days since the last post.

 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 06-22-2007, 03:54 AM:
 
what was the fix for this. Was it the software upgrade that was needed? I know ours has the software version that was dated April 7th 2005. I am now starting to have the problems that Brad stated. The thing is it happened on the Nancy Drew discs and Now on the Evan Almighty discs. Discs for Ratatouille and 1408 loaded with no problems. This error happens on all xd10 units. I thought maybe the Nancy drew discs were bad but all three of my Evan Almighty discs will not load on any of my units except for the trailers. It gives the discs are not a set error like Brad states above.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-22-2007, 05:48 AM:
 
The fix was to delete the trailers and re-burn the disc that carried them! I know it sounds odd, but no joke that was the fix. (It had something to do with the older trailer files being formatted differently or something along that line.)

Your current situation is weird though because that "not a set error" only affected selected older titles. This could be something new since we are talking about current movies. (You might want to try burning whichever disc has the trailers and delete it anyway and let us know.)
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-22-2007, 08:11 AM:
 
Actually the new firmware should have fixed this problem. I have one thats really wierd though... Sound is distorted on all channels when the HD is near full. Delting ALL the trailer and feature files and reloading just the current movie disks fixes it.

Mark
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 06-22-2007, 08:44 AM:
 
I saw that error on Evan Almighty also. I just selected the option to "continue anyway" or whatever it said (I think it was the "Enter" button), and it seemed to load ok. I'll let you know if it plays ok, but I didn't delete anything. I loaded 1408 after Evan, and it loaded with no warnings.
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 06-22-2007, 11:14 AM:
 
Well, I tried doing the load anyway and all it did was load the trailers. I will bring a set of discs home and see what the deal is as far as the information on them. Not sure if one disc just has the trailers and the other is the feature. I did try to load them individually but the unit just ejected the disc without doing anything. I will also look into the software upgrade. The one that they sent a few months ago did not load because the software currently on the unit was the older version without automatic update capability. Remember this happened on all the units not just one of them and it did it on all the Evan Almighty discs so it makes me think that there may be something weird with the discs.
 

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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 06-22-2007, 11:23 AM:
 
The matching discs error surfacing with Nancy Drew and Evan Almighty indicates the XD10 needs to be updated to software version 2.00.43. If the player is already at 2.0.40 or higher then the update will automatically run from the Nancy Drew or Evan Almighty discs. If you are at any of the version 1 software levels, you'll need a (free) F590M upgrade kit. To request a kit please email TechSupport@dts.com or call 800-959-4109 and ask for cinema tech support.

6ADs should be updated as well, to version 2.08. The 6AD update software is also included on the feature discs for Nancy Drew and Evan Almighty, and the instructions for running the upgrade should have been included with the soundtrack discs for Evan.

Regards,

Daniel Schulz
DTS Digital Cinema
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 06-22-2007, 11:39 AM:
 
That's all I needed to know. I will be sending an email shortly. I hope this is something we can get quickly. I don't want the same issue with Transformers.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 06-22-2007, 05:19 PM:
 
Well well well...

I come in to work tonight, and what do you know... Evan is playing in analog. Nice.

I have a call in to tech support. Hopefully they will call me back soon so we can get this fixed.

Thanks, Daniel.
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 06-22-2007, 09:14 PM:
 
We had the same error when attempting to load Evan Almighty.
Evans playing in analog.
Nice going DTS.
 

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Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-23-2007, 04:37 AM:
 
That's why you should have Dolby Digital as a failsafe for DTS!!!
 

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Posted by Tim Lewis (Member # 4110) on 06-23-2007, 03:11 PM:
 
i'm having the exact same problem with Nancy Drew and Evan Almighty as you guys are. i know i've got version 1. whatever and need to upgrade, but when i called DTS weeks ago to get the upgrade to 2.00.40, i just got an answering machine and no one ever returned my calls. thanks for the e-mail address, Daniel. i shall use that right now.
 

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Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 06-23-2007, 05:28 PM:
 
[Rant deleted after reading next post]

Incidentally, how long does it take to upload a movie and its associated trailers from the discs onto a DTS unit? If it's not very long, surely you could just wipe the hard disk every time you change the movie print and upload just the movie and trailers you're showing.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 06-23-2007, 05:32 PM:
 
Hey, folks.

When DTS representatives (Dan Schultz, Mike Smith) are kind enough to post on a thread where someone is trying to debug DTS problems, could we please not hijack the thread to discuss the merits of their competitors systems?

We can easily do that in another thread, and we want to encourage vendor participation on Film-Tech, not make them feel unwelcome.

Thanks!

P.S.: Hey, Dan and Mike. Is there an upgrade path for me to upgrade my DTS-CSS into a DTS XD10?
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-23-2007, 10:18 PM:
 
While neither Dan nor Mike....I'm pretty sure there is a way.

Steve
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-24-2007, 01:21 PM:
 
One thing DTS should definately do is make a burnable file available through this site AND their own! Not only could DTS save money but it could be downloaded and many XD-10's with these load errors could have been back up and running in short order. Its also high time that DTS get their act together and start doing XD-10 repair training sessions at both Showeast and Showest!!! Several of our larger customers have indicated their displeasire with the send it to DTS method of repair. One of them has indicated this by ONLY installing CP650's in all new builds. While I like both systems at least Dolby's gear can all be repaired on site.

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-24-2007, 02:15 PM:
 
I tend to agree that the discs should be available for download...the tech should also have a USB memory stick or be prepaired to reload everything...including CSS licensing, reader offsets...etc.
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-24-2007, 03:00 PM:
 
We don't have DTS, but I see two major problems with the discs, neither of which is the fault of DTS themselves. The first, of course, is the discs simply not being supplied with the print; since we don't use the system, our film sound is all analogue, it doesn't matter to us, but it obviously does to anybody who does use DTS. I doubt if more than one in four of the prints we receive which have a DTS timecode track on them has the discs included. Why not? A theatre wouldn't return a print with a couple of reels missing, so why do they return them without the discs? Do they simply get forgotten, and left in the drives, when the print is sent back? Are they being kept in case the film returns for another run, and arrives the next time without the discs? The discs are a part of the print, and not returning them with the print is simply not acceptable.

Secondly, the discs are usually supplied in an Amaray-style DVD case, which is either packed in the transit case, alongside the film cans, or opened out flat, and put inside one of the cans with the film. In both cases the case is almost always broken, and the discs are quite often damaged. Where the discs are put inside one of the film cans it's not unknown for the film to be damaged by pieces of broken disc case. In at least one case damage was also caused to a projectionist (a sharp splinter of broken plastic under a fingernail, ouch!) There really does need to be a better way of packaging the discs.
 

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Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-24-2007, 03:53 PM:
 
I am 100% pro DTS. Here in Cyprus it never failed us and we always get comments for better playback than DD (please don't start the famous DD DTS war again). I was just making a teasing comment. Sorry if I offended anyone.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 06-24-2007, 07:13 PM:
 

quote: Daniel Schulz

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6ADs should be updated as well, to version 2.08. The 6AD update software is also included on the feature discs for Nancy Drew and Evan Almighty, and the instructions for running the upgrade should have been included with the soundtrack discs for Evan.

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quote: Stephen Furley

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There really does need to be a better way of packaging the discs.

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quote: Brad Allen

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Three screens here, and maybe once a year we fail to have the DTS disc's arrive with the print. It's been a non-issue the 3 years we've been using DTS.

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quote: Stephen Furley

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It's not DTSs fault, and if I were them I would not be very happy about the situation.

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Me either. If I were one of the DTS folks who frequent this forum, I would be printing out some of the posts here (and in other threads) about missing disks, and raising hell with the film companies, because the situation is making the film companies' product look (sound) bad and on top of it, costing DTS business.

The DTS disk set should be treated just as if it was another reel - a theatre not returing it, should be charged for it. If that happened, the problem would go away. Maybe giving the disk set a "reel number" is the answer.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-27-2007, 01:25 AM:
 
It took a few days, but XD10 users who are unable to obtain discs from dts for any number of reasons and are now dead in the water without digital playback...ISO disc images along with all documentation is now in the archives available for download.

You MUST have a blank CD, a blank DVD, a USB memory drive, a DVD burner, DVD burning software, WinZip (to unzip the file) and one heck of a solid and fast internet connection. Heads up, this is a 3.5 GIG download! Inside the zip file are important documentation via a text and a pdf file that you will need to read in order to complete the upgrade. The documentation is in multiple languages. Click here for the download and be prepared to wait for what could be an all-day download. Hopefully this will help some users out there resurrect their XD10 units quicker.

(Bandwidth this month could prove to be quite interesting. haha)
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-27-2007, 04:29 AM:
 
Suggestion:
Split the file up. That way, if someone has problems with the download they only have to redownload part of the file instead of the whole thing. So that'll possibly save you bandwidth and them download time.

You could use a piece of software such as
http://stahlforce.com/dev/index.php?tool=split
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-27-2007, 01:18 PM:
 
That will not happen. Not everyone understands how to work that sort of software (the overwhelming majority). The download has to be straightforward and simple, or it won't happen.

The more technical-saavy nerds are free to download the file via anonymous ftp at ftp.film-tech.com
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-27-2007, 01:45 PM:
 
Most modern ftp clients can resume interrupted downloads anyway. For Windows, try FileZilla. It's open-source and free.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-27-2007, 04:31 PM:
 
Our HTTP server supports resuming too... so if your HTTP client doesn't suck you can resume that way.

HTTP is the suggested method of download by the way. Our FTP server does NOT support passive connections, so if you use FTP you must turn passive mode off.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 06-27-2007, 04:57 PM:
 
Dave mentions, "Most modern ftp clients can resume interrupted downloads anyway."

Support for the "reget" command was added to the ftp client in 4.3BSD/Reno, sometime between February 1989 and July 1990
(If I read this right, by Mike Karels on Feb 28, 1989). Not quite 30 years old, but close.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-27-2007, 05:28 PM:
 
I'd say closer to 20 years, but I guess not quite 30 fits.
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 06-27-2007, 06:35 PM:
 
Thanks DTS and Film-Tech for providing this.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-27-2007, 06:54 PM:
 
Heh. Is the resume feature relatively new to Windows-based ftp clients? Or has it always been there?
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-28-2007, 03:30 AM:
 
David,

Most ftp clients have had resume support for some time, be it one written for windows, linux, bsd, etc.
 

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Posted by Tim Lewis (Member # 4110) on 07-07-2007, 03:39 PM:
 
got my upgrade kit and upgraded all my XD10's, but now during showtime, they don't tell me when the reels are supposed to end like they used to...all i get is the current timecode...why has this feature been removed?
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 07-08-2007, 03:16 PM:
 
Press the down arrow once and that data will appear on the bottom line of the LCD. This can be set in "setup" to show by default.

Apparently the upgrade did not save this setting.
 

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Posted by Tim Lewis (Member # 4110) on 07-09-2007, 12:26 AM:
 
oh ok, cool, i was kinda thinking there might be a setting in there to activate that, but hadn't played aorund with it yet.
 

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Posted by Craig Dunn (Member # 4232) on 02-12-2008, 03:25 PM:
 
I think this is my first post.

Anyone having DVD drives failing?

I've had 3 die in the last 3 months?

How about off the shelf replacements since I'm out of warranty on 1.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-12-2008, 03:44 PM:
 
Yep! Since the XD-10's have been out I have had quite a few DVD drives fail... also going on a half dozen Hard Drives now too. We keep both on the shelf. even if your units are still under warranty its LESS EXPENSIVE to replace them your self than it is to ship units back and forth!! Wal-Mart or cheapo mail order is a good place to get em. I do reccomend a good brand HD though like Western Digital or Seagate. Any DVD drive will work ok... ditto for the HD's for the most part. Larger HD's will hold more data too. The first XD-10's I believe had 40 gig drives... The last one that failed I replaced with a 320 gig. If a HD does fail you will also need the operating system re-load disk as well to restore normal operation... you will also have to re-set the time code delay and any level changes you made from the normal default levels. Then re-load all your movie files.

Mark
 

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Posted by Craig Dunn (Member # 4232) on 02-12-2008, 08:11 PM:
 
Thats great news Mark! Thank you very much.
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 02-13-2008, 06:01 PM:
 
What signs does an XD10 give of HD problems? Beside's an obvious failure to boot.

I assume they are simply IDE interfaces on the HD's?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-13-2008, 07:19 PM:
 

quote: Brad Allen

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What signs does an XD10 give of HD problems? Beside's an obvious failure to boot.

I assume they are simply IDE interfaces on the HD's?

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