Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Changing Ways

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Posted by Thomas Dieter (Member # 2507) on 07-31-2005, 02:45 AM:

I have to say that I try my best to do what I can to not "suck". I didn't know any different than what I had been taught. I use to never put a "Tail Tag" on as my first theatre placed the title and sound formats on a white board with the show times on the lamp house console. So, no tape was put on the tail except for what the distributor put on.

No I don't have an abundance of "Clear Leader" to add to my prints, all though I have been Accumulating a lot of it from the ETS prints. Unlike Technicolor, they tend to leave large amounts of Clear leader on the heads and tails of their prints. That's how I've made most of my tail wraps.

Placing leader at the end of the movie to me seems like it would be pointless, unless you are looking to not scratch the tail of the print or you are interlocking. You still have to pick it up from the floor, and it still wraps against the print when on the platter, there for transferring the dirt and oil collected to the previous wrap of the print, and so on so forth. I can see that would work if you were replacing the tail leader every show, but that would be tedious.

I do not consider myself to be a professional nor can i say my booths are perfect, although I strive to be as professional in every aspect. Meaning, I was taught to do something one way. If it was incorrect, or there was a better way to execute that task, I'd adapt, like threading bottom to top.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-31-2005, 03:27 AM:

That's the whole point of adding at least 25 feet of tail leader. Do more if you think your booth needs it. The extra tail leader does not need to be replaced all the time like you think it does (try before you claim something), unless you are running the film for a really long time. Still, extra trailers are free. Throw 50 feet on the end and forget about it.

Any way you slice it, if there is a mark on the print right up to the last frame of the blue rating band, you aren't doing your job well. (Even if you are theater that doesn't project the rating band, that's still part of the movie.)

Remember the reverse is also true. If you are using a short threading leader (for example, 35 feet worth), your first preview almost certainly has dirt and marks on it for the first 30 seconds to a minute even with good threading practices (worse if you are a sloppy threader that lets the leader hit the floor). What's the fix? Extra head leader. It's not hard, you just have to care enough about your presentation to do it. [Wink]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-31-2005, 06:53 AM:

Here again I endorse the new Sharpie Silver Metalic marking pens for writing on film. The results are markings that are highly reflective and are clearly visible on the film, no matter if it is clear leader, black leader or even junk trailer film with images. It works on that red or green painted leader stuff. For use on that last 25ft of added leader, no matter what it is, it will show up perfectly.

I used to put artist tape on every head and tail so I could write on it with Black or Blue Sharpie, red on the tails. The tape was necessary for any Sharpie pen to be clearly visible, especially on black leader. But now with this new silver metalic stuff, I no longer put any tape on the leaders; I just write with the silver and the lettering contrasts with whatever film you've written on. Putting title, sound and picture format information takes half the time than it did with tape first then marking.

Get yourself a couple of these pens and you will never use anything else.

And, best of all -- it comes off with one single swipe of a cloth with a little FG or Ecco 1500 on it. For those who MUST mark reel joints, this is the stuff because it comes off so easily. If you accidently get any in the picture or sound area, it comes off easier than anything else you've ever used, even grease pencil.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 07-31-2005, 01:29 PM:

Here's a good practice, especially if you have short leaders:
If you thread it, play it. Never leave a film threaded over night with the first trailer just hanging in the air collecting dust.

Our basic policies:
-Leader stays off the floor.
-Threading goes bottom to top.
-Splices are clear tape only.
-Reel ends are cut to overlap slightly at the reel join.
-Tail tags contain title, print #, sound formats, and picture format.
-Film doesn't go on the floor no matter what it is. The "oh it's just rolling stock" turns into "oh it's just a preview" and so on.
-Picture formats change only once everyone is out of the theater and an RP40 loop is used to verify the settings.
-Splices are peeled, not broken.
-Filmguard is run on all new prints first week and in weeks and when necessary is rotated around the old prints for a week.
-Cues are cut small as possible and placed with intelligence to minimize visibillity.

I can't think of anything else relating to actual film handling though there's more.
Hope it helps.

Posted by Thomas Dieter (Member # 2507) on 08-01-2005, 12:45 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
What's the fix? Extra head leader. It's not hard, you just have to care enough about your presentation to do it.

This is true, but when everyone at your theatre say make the leader shorter cause I have to advance through all of it before threading, it's harder. I'm the only one that uses the manual douser to open a show. Everyone else uses it until they hit the start button and lets the auto douser open the show.

Here's everything that I've changed about my operation habits. I was taught to thread to the roller above the projector unit, and let it drop on the floor. Now I'm threading to the platter, advanceing to the beginning of the threading leader and threading bottem up. (Easy with AW3s and Projectors without doors and slits for film like Century) Always pick up my tails and wiping the tail between two fingers. Extra head leader on all my leaders (cept when asked by management to shorten). Clear tape only on all splices, although on ETS prints cause it's not guarenteed I will break those down and other complain cause they can't see (I know, you're not suppose to see the splice. If you can, your audiance can). I know there's more that I've changed from what I was trained, but it's escaping me right now.

My orginal question still hasn't been Answered. What's the reason for a tail tag other than to know what print you are threading when prints are doubled up?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-01-2005, 02:04 AM:

quote: Thomas Dieter
I'm the only one that uses the manual douser to open a show. Everyone else uses it until they hit the start button and lets the auto douser open the show.

I'm confused as to why you seem to think that using a manual hand douser somehow makes for a better presentation???

quote: Thomas Dieter
My orginal question still hasn't been Answered. What's the reason for a tail tag other than to know what print you are threading when prints are doubled up?

You never know if someone moved prints around the day before and failed to leave you a note. Labeling the prints takes the confusion out of it.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-01-2005, 02:12 AM:

Generous head leader makes good sense. Being a drive-in, dust is always a problem. We have probably 30 or 40 feet of old trailer film ahead of our mylar countdown leaders. After threading, we hit the start on our automations. the film advances to a cue on the mylar leader, then coasts to a stop very near where we want it to be when the start sequence begins. This addresses the advance leader issue, as well as giving us plenty of time to verify proper operation before the show starts.

As Brad says, tag leader (plenty of old trailer film) keeps the feature clean right up through the very end of the print, whether you project it or not.

All that, plus the FG process, and our prints look great right up through the end of their runs.

Posted by Charles Phillips (Member # 2594) on 08-01-2005, 02:20 AM:

Why not have a label? All of the information you need stays right with the print and on top, no shuffling or waste of paper.
Having the picture format labeled has always helped me when I'm changing out trailers/rolling stock or what lens I need to change to. Labeling the sound formats has helped me in making sure that the best sound format is in use.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 08-01-2005, 02:26 AM:

Addressing the question of long leaders we use long leaders by threading and then just before hitting the "go" button we motor the leader through.
The projetor then has a rolling start and until we actually are starting the show the film isn't exposed to the air.
Good considering the habit should always be to thread up when it gets out.

I never actually use the tail tags (though I put them on every print) because I know what movie, picture format, and sound formats I'm dealing with by memory.
I usually use it for reference when I'm dealing with multiple prints and I intend to change trailers on one print only or break down a specific print, etc.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-01-2005, 02:46 PM:

quote:
-Reel ends are cut to overlap slightly at the reel join.

By this I take it you mean on new, uncut prints, correct? Surely you don't recut already spliced leaders, cutting off an additional frame to get an overlap, do you?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-01-2005, 05:10 PM:

I personally don't use trailer scraps (or any film with picture and track) for extra leader. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I'm afraid that it might confuse people, if not at the theatre that is showing the film, but possibly at the next house.

When I first started doing film work, I received a print that had a hundred feet or so of some random trailer spliced onto the last reel. At the time, I'd never worked with platters, and couldn't understand why anyone would do such a thing. In retrospect, I realize that someone was doing the right thing by adding extra tail leader, but it didn't make sense to me at the time.

In an automated platter house, there is also the possibility that the end-of-show cue might get missed or that the changeover might not close completely. In this case, I'd rather not subject the audience to random bits of another film. Admittedly, the possibility of this happening is rare in a theatre with good maintenance practices.

For these reasons, I prefer to use clear leader (which can be made by bleaching junk film) for heads and tails.

Regardless of whether a theatre runs reels or platters, adding extra leader is one of the best (and easiest) ways to improve presentation quality.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-01-2005, 05:13 PM:

Also leaders or scaps of film with DTS timecode can screwup a DTS player at startup

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-01-2005, 05:21 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
Surely you don't recut already spliced leaders, cutting off an additional frame to get an overlap, do you?

This depends on the print. I like to overlap splices slightly, as well. I'll cut off another frame to get that overlap under 2 conditions:

1. The existing ends don't butt together tightly, or

2. The existing ends have so much yellow tape glop on them that I can't get them clean without a lot of scraping and scrubbing.

I am paranoid about not overlapping the splices because I had a splice fold on me and clog up the projector once. Not pretty. It was a splice I had not made, but the print was one of those last-minute circuit things and I had no inspection time. The print ran 6 days with no problems, then on day 7 the splice buckled.

Posted by Thomas Dieter (Member # 2507) on 08-01-2005, 06:03 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
For these reasons, I prefer to use clear leader (which can be made by bleaching junk film) for heads and tails.

I had been meaning to ask this question for a while. Can you actually do this, and if so, how much can you do at one time?

I just use Vandel Remover on my platters to clean off the rubber from the drive wheels, and was also curious if that would be okay?

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 08-01-2005, 07:40 PM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
Being a drive-in, dust is always a problem. We have probably 30 or 40 feet of old trailer film ahead of our mylar countdown leaders. After threading, we hit the start on our automations. the film advances to a cue on the mylar leader, then coasts to a stop

Jack, how do you prevent the lamp's from igniting during the rundown?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-01-2005, 07:47 PM:

Yes, bleach works fine. I'd recommend starting with 20' (or so) lengths of junk film. Use about 1/2-1 cup of bleach per gallon of water. Soak and agitate the film. With a little bit of "help," the emulsion will come off, leaving you with clear film.

Then, transfer the film to a bucket of clean water, with 1-2 capfuls of Kodak Photo-Flo (available inexpensively at camera stores which sell darkroom supplies). Hang up the film and allow it to dry. The Photo-Flo will help it to dry quickly without leaving streaks or water spots.

The only problem with this is that the resultant clear film has no emulsion and will tend to stick to itself, which can occasionally cause problems. If you have junk acetate-base film, I'd recommend using this if possible (since it will break under stress, rather than stretching).

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-02-2005, 02:10 AM:

quote: Dominic Espinosa
-Picture formats change only once everyone is out of the theater and an RP40 loop is used to verify the settings.

So how do you do a format change during an actual performance (e.g. from 1:1.85 trailers to a 'scope feature)?

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 08-02-2005, 02:38 AM:

Leo, We don't mix-n-match. Even if we had turrets I wouldn't use that method, too much risk in something going wrong for my taste.

quote: Frank Angel
By this I take it you mean on new, uncut prints, correct? Surely you don't recut already spliced leaders, cutting off an additional frame to get an overlap, do you?

Absolutely not. The reason I don't leave reference frames on tail leaders is because I don't want to screw up someone elses performance if he's running chanveovers.
There's really no need to re-cut a frame unless it's so severely damaged it would cause more trouble playing it.
In that case the entire reel is probably trashed and should be replaced.

Besides, removing even 1 frame in some instances will cause a noticeable "skip" in the audio, very distracting. Imagine cutting 5 frames or something stupid like that. I've received prints like this. Totally unacceptable.

Posted by Brian Hogan (Member # 940) on 08-02-2005, 08:05 PM:

back when i was working in the states, we had multiple copies of both formats of trailers for individual titles. here in new zealand, however, we only use flat trailers and ads. its much cheaper to have two copies of a title in flat, rather than two in flat and two in scope. we can then place cues on the theatre logo snipe to change format if the feature is scope.

and dont even get me started on splices! this company i work for now makes it policy to label ad, trailer and reel joins with little round yellow stickers. im not kidding. put the two ends of film in the splicer and stick the sticker on the gap. T3|H4 gets written on it, for example, then pull the tape over it and splice. this isnt really that bad though... oh wait, yeah it is, because not only do you see a big, black dot at every splice and interrupt the audio, but you have to chop off a frame at the head and tail of everything cause the stickers do not come off clean at all. the reasoning behind this policy is so that if you do ad changes or tear down a print, you will know whats what. it doesnt seem to matter that we have a list of all the ads and trailers and their order in the print on a clipboard. it is quite frustrating to say the least.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 08-03-2005, 01:45 AM:

quote: Brian Hogan
it doesnt seem to matter that we have a list of all the ads and trailers and their order in the print on a clipboard. it is quite frustrating to say the least.

Redundancy is only good sometimes.
In your case it's a bad thing. We have film inspections and a projectionist should by no means be blind.
I've never had a problem swapping trailers.

Something I forgot to add:
We cut our media into 3rds which fits just about every film under 9 reels depending on exact length.
It feels good to not waste precious media.

Something I was wondering: If one were to strip, say, a trailer to use as clear leader where should one take the dirty bleach-water with the emulsion in it?
I don't think pouring it down the drain would be a good thing.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-03-2005, 02:28 AM:

quote:
this company i work for now makes it policy to label ... joins with little round yellow stickers. ... put the two ends of film in the splicer and stick the sticker on the gap. ..., then pull the tape over it and splice. ... not only do you see a big, black dot at every splice and interrupt the audio, but you have to chop off a frame at the head and tail of everything cause the stickers do not come off clean at all.

i don't really want to condone the above policy at all, but one thing you could do is put the sticker on after the tape. then it'll come off with the tape and you don't have to junk 2 frames.

carl

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 08-03-2005, 03:31 AM:

You could also try trimming up the labels maybe?
If you're not using all the vertical image in scope you won't see it or as much at least and in flat, if it's centered you can hide cue tape just fine on a frameline, label too if so required.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-04-2005, 12:44 PM:

quote:
Also leaders or scraps of film with DTS timecode can screwup a DTS player at startup.

Brother, if that ain't the truth! Especially, with any of the STRONG automation units that are software based.

I tell people to either put a good 10 foot length of black film between the thread lead and the head of the trailer so when the dowser opens the timecode hasn't entered the reader.

For if the reader picks up timecode before dowser opens, the DTS unit will lock up thinking that it has already receiving timecode, thus the processor can only go into default optical and stay there.

-Monte

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-04-2005, 01:05 PM:

35mm leader is really not that expensive. Depending on the type and vendor, some cost less than $0.10 USD (ten cents) per foot. So 50 feet is only a five buck investment.

Polyester (Kodak ESTAR base) leader is very durable, and should last through thousands of showings. But do use an on-line film cleaner to keep it clean, and to remove the buildup of dust and dirt it will pick up over time.

Even print film raw stock can be used as projection leader (although it doesn't have framelines):

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/catalog/printfilm04.pdf