Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What type of cleaner to use to clean the heads?

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Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 09-01-2005, 11:55 AM:

What are your suggestions on what type of cleaner to use to clean the inside of the projector heads? Is there a good spray cleaner to use that would be safe on the paint and plastic parts?

[ 09-01-2005, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Richard May ]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-01-2005, 01:19 PM:

You talking about the projector heads, magnetic heads, optical heads, soundheads..et.al. ?? [Confused]

Please be more specific. thx- Monte

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 09-01-2005, 02:23 PM:

Shoot me now, Monte. That was pretty dumb. I must have been sleeping. The projector and soundhead is what I meant. Thanks.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-01-2005, 02:33 PM:

I do it the old fashioned way a bunch of rags some mineral spirits and some fantastic and the finish up elbow greese

Posted by Mike Croaro (Member # 3123) on 09-01-2005, 02:33 PM:

Hi Richard:

Back in the day we used to use brake and parts cleaner as its a good degreaser and it evaporates as opposed to drying. I would not suggest spraying directly on/into the head. Rather spray it on a towel and then wipe out the unit. I'm sure there are also some other products to use.
Mike

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-01-2005, 02:44 PM:

I would have rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle, zap a rag with the alcohol and do some serious wiping down, especially the gate runners.

But, some large circuits forbid rubbing alcohol due to the fire/health hazard that rubbing alcohol contains.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-01-2005, 02:51 PM:

I use a toothbrush and rag for general cleaning and Q-tips for hard-to-reach spots.

I don't generally use liquids for day-to-day cleaning, but will use the following on an "as-needed" basis: alcohol/lighter fluid/xecote for the gate and trap, naptha for wiping up oil from the exterior of the machine, and windex for the doors. I also use lens cleaner and lens paper for the sound lens.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-01-2005, 03:03 PM:

"Lighter Fluid" often contains naphtha.

When using solvents to clean, be very careful about flammability and personal exposure to the liquid or fumes. Use in a well ventilated area and wear appropriate protective gloves that are impervious to the solvent being used. Most solvents will leach lubricants from bearings, and some may attack painted sufaces or plastics.

For degreasing, cleaners containing D-Limonine (e.g., Simple Green) are often quite effective, and better alternatives for the environment and personal safety.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-01-2005, 03:05 PM:

Carbon Tet also is a excellent cleaner tobad about the genetic side effects

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-01-2005, 03:18 PM:

Carbon Tetrachloride: [Eek!]

http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/ccl4.html

quote:
According to the NTP 10th Annual Report On Carcinogens carbon tetrachloride is "reasonably anticipated" to be a human carcinogen. Therefore, avoid contact with it whenever possible.
Carbon tetrachloride was formerly used in a wide variety of applications before the carcinogenic hazard was well-known. One such use was as a fire extinguishing agent. Besides the carcinogenic hazard this poses, an additional danger is that carbon tetrachloride can form phosgene gas (Cl2CO, used as a chemical weapon in World War I) when used on electrical fires. If you ever come across a carbon tetrachloride extinguisher dispose of it as a toxic waste and replace the extinguisher with an appropriately selected model.

Carbon tetrachloride was widely used as an industrial solvent before its health hazards were well-known. It is sometimes used as an intermediate (ingredient) in the manufacture of other chemicals, and it has a terrific degreasing ability. This latter property also resulted in its use by the dry cleaning industry in the 20th century, but this practice has long been abandoned.

Regulations and taxes have helped to phase out the widespread use of carbon tetrachloride in most "first world" nations, however you are still likely to encounter carbon tetrachloride in academic and research laboratories.

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/CA/carbon_tetrachloride.html

quote:
Toxicology
This material is a probable carcinogen. Its use must be carefully assessed before work begins in the laboratory. Inhalation and ingestion are harmful, and may be fatal. Irritant. Skin contact may lead to dermatitis. Long-term exposure may lead to kidney or liver damage, CNS disturbance, cancer and damage to eyes, skin and lungs.

http://phyvirtual.nju.edu.cn/material/MSDS/G22.pdf

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-01-2005, 03:24 PM:

I believe it is one of the secret ingredients in Bob Marrs martinis [beer]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-01-2005, 07:21 PM:

Well Bob does like his Martini's dry;)

As to rubbing alcohol, it should be banned from the booth. I've seen it do MUCH more harm than good. If one must use alcohol for cleaning (and it does have its moments) then use pure Isopropyl Alcohol (anhydrous). At least then you won't leave water behind to rust out the bearings and other metal parts. I've also seen negative affects of rubbing alcohol on various white paints used on projectors.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-02-2005, 02:54 AM:

What are your preferred cleaning products?

I mostly use mineral spirits, and, sorry to say, rubbing alcohol on some parts.

What is best to use to remove the massive buildup from belt shedding in the soundheads (e.g. 5Star) and Christie gear compartments? Is there a spray which allows you to clean the goo-covered terminals and connections in those compartments without taking the connectors off and without introducing corrosion?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-02-2005, 03:22 AM:

Carbon TET. Now, that was great stuff to clean with (as long as you wore rubber gloves so your liver wouldn't get eaten up with that stuff..), especially when rebuilding carbon feed motors to remove all of that gooey carbon dust from the brushes.

Stuff literally ate up grease whereever it was in contact with CarbonTET. Thus, I used to clean bearings with that stuff then repack with new grease.

Now, we have "SimpleGreen" - next best stuff to CarbonTET and it's very safe to use being water soluable. I use "SimpleGreen" to clean carburetor parts with before rebuild. Then, after getting all greasy from being under the hood or under the car, time for a "SimpleGreen" scrubdown.

I keep a gallon of that stuff at home in two spraybottles, undiluted, and one at work-for the greasy jobs.

SG is great for stripping wax off of floors as well with a floor machine...

-Monte

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 09-02-2005, 03:57 AM:

We use a combination of the following for daily/weekly cleanings:
-Isopropyl alchohol when necessary*
-FilmGuard*
-A paint brush, tooth brush, shop towel combo
-Lens cleaner/Lens wipes**
-Q-tips*

There really shouldn't ever be anything in there that needs desolving but in the case that there is, FG usually takes care of it.
The Alchohol is for cleaning rollers and parts of the film path but again, FG is used if it's needed.
We've had no negative side effects with these procedures.

* = Weekly cleanings, usually
** = When necessary

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 09-02-2005, 06:52 AM:

My list is the same as Dominic's, though I've found Filmguard is an excellent cleaner for the runners, so I've never had to resort to anything else. I use a lens cleaner solution for the lenses and glass ports. I've found the lens cleaner works better on the ports than any standard glass cleaner I've tried.

Posted by Don Furr (Member # 1469) on 09-02-2005, 07:22 AM:

I use to clean with Filmrenew until I discovered Film Guard. I clean the traps and gates with Film Guard after every show. I use clean rags and a toothbrush on the rest of the picture and sound head.

Posted by Andy Bergstrom (Member # 360) on 09-02-2005, 09:31 AM:

Be sure to cover the sound lens and solar cell when cleaning and remove the lens. More than one do gooder has gotten inside the projector to "really clean it up" and forgotten to remove the lens resulting in some anxious moments with lens cleaner and tissue trying to clean the brake cleaner stains off the lens. Fuller Brush makes an excellant cleaner called Spray and Wipe that really works well on removing film build-up especially on film rollers. Just use common sense and moderation.

Posted by Olivia Coleman (Member # 3193) on 09-03-2005, 02:50 PM:

We are forbidden to use rubbing alcohol except on port windows. What we use during the day is:
Toothbrush for sprockets, gate and tension bands
Paint brush for dusting off all rollers
Q-tip for the hard to reach areas

For end of the night we do a 'mini' detail which includes a projector wipe or rag with Filmguard and clean EVERY roller, gate and tension bands. I also dust off with the paint brush if not compressing that projector. Plus Q-tipping.

For weekly details we do the same to all the rollers. Plus wiping down the entire platter tree with a Simple Green soaked rag. (This means we wipe all empty platters, the platter arms and legs, and the mast.) Wipe the outside of the projector completely with same rag and the sound tower. (Each projector has it's own tower next to it!) [Razz]

We even wipe the vents to help cut down on the dust they collect. In the projector head we wipe all the rollers then we use a DRY Q-tip on the sound optics and clean the lenses.

It has been said our booth is one of the cleanest in the company (if not THE cleanest!) [Big Grin]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-04-2005, 02:02 AM:

quote: Olivia Coleman
We are forbidden to use rubbing alcohol except on port windows...

Yea, that's a REG rule for sure. Yet, I broke this rule plenty by hiding my bottles of rubbing alcohol well when I was with REG before I left REG back in '02.

Sorry, when using alcohol for many moons and when someone tells me that it's bad for machines and when whoever tells me this don't know crap about what they're talking about since they've only been told that one certain way is the only way and not knowing the tricks on how to use the stuff CORRECTLY ... (granted, I know why, though, due to insurance reasons - just like some circuits can't use bleach on the floors downstairs in the snakbar to aid in cutting up the popcorn grease...)thus,you might say that I got a little bull-headed with this and realized that the new ways have a very hard way, or just doesn't mix with the old ways of doing things.

Course, REG is a big company and want to make rules as simple as possible to follow, so no differences will arise in operational procedures. And I guess that all large circuits have the same sort of operational procedures - no individualism is allowed so the "boat doesn't get rocked", so to say.

-Monte

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-04-2005, 11:59 AM:

So what's their logic for not useing alcohol? Usually those SOP rules and regs have a basis. It would be interesting to find out why. Same with bleach on the floors...why not? Bleach is an excellent disinfectant, they are even adding it in one spray cleaner that we use for counter tops and such. Perhaps it can become probematic if it is splashed around willy-nilly, but as you say, Andy, if you use the stuff with moderation, it should be quite useful. But I guess the country must have a growing population of morons since it is now necessary that every product has the admonition, "Only use as directed." I guess without that warning, people would be drinking the stuff. [Eek!]

And Olivia, you can come work in my booth any day; sounds like you and your crew are consumate professionals.

All you need to do to find out what kind of presentation values you will see on the screen is to go to the booth and look at how clean or how dirty it is. That goes directly to how consciencous the crew is. Even if management puts untrained, illprepaired people up there, a clean, orderly booth is at the very least a sign that those workers have a decent work ethic and even if they are not terribly well trained, you know all someone has to do show them proper procedures and they will be eager to follow them and even to learn more. And again, at the very least, you know they are not going to be laying film down on the floor and walking all over it, like some places I been where the screen image looks like that's exactly what they do.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-05-2005, 03:26 AM:

quote:
So what's their logic for not using alcohol?

As much as I know and realize is that rubbing alcohol, the store bought variety, is the common 70percent variety, which points to the 30 percent water that is mixed in with the substance to reduce flammability and to retard evaporation.

But, the claim is that when alcohol is used on metal surfaces that isn't stainless steel, rust and corrosion will eventually result of surfaces not immediately wiped off after the use of alochol. Plus, the misuse of the toxic substance is quite high in these areas that isn't monitored with professional hands.

Some theatre operators get a hold of the medical professional 99 percent isoprop alcohol, which does one heck of a job of cleaning, which is just about next to Carbon Tetrachloride - just, that it's ten times more flammable and has to be used with care.

This sort of liability is what some circuits doesn't want to occur.

Or, you might say, with circuits with "B-usher"/minimum wage operations, the existence of proper/professional operations is far from being practiced.

Also with the massive turnover rate these circuits experience, the need to eliminate any such complications in the operation and to have things as simple as possible - simple that a 10yr old can halfway figure things out.

Not to pick on Olivia's operation, but once again, she was trained well through the expertise of the REG Technical Services on how they want things to be at her location there in Bend, and she's doing her best to follow those things to the letter.

Thus, her theatre staff know that she's in control of the entire operation.

-Monte

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-05-2005, 09:49 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
As much as I know and realize is that rubbing alcohol, the store bought variety, is the common 70percent variety, which points to the 30 percent water that is mixed in with the substance to reduce flammability and to retard evaporation.

Oh come on Monte. Where are you getting this...the flash point and boiling points on every sheet I've found hasn't made a distinction between pure and rubbing alcohols.

The purpose of the water content in rubbing alcohol is so that it may be rubbed on the skin without causing cracking and other damage to the skin...and even then it has limitations on exposure. The last thing one would want rubbing alcohol to do is not evaporate quickly...the idea is that the alcohol evaporates leaving the water behind so it is less of an irritant.

Rubbing alcohol belongs in your medicine cabinet next to the hydrogen peroxide, not in the booth as a cleaner. I can't tell you how many rusted out bearings I've come across in otherwise clean projectors...every damn time rubbing alcohol was used, which is why I have a great disdane for it as a common cleaner.

When 1,1,1 TriChlor was banned, I switched to pure Iso, anhydrous and had decent results on mag heads. Even then I mostly just dry wipped between reels (to avoid removing the head shield every 20 minutes and wearing out the fasteners (the AA2 was great about this since one could remove that shield without tools, same is true for the DP75 and FP75E).

For the painted surfaces, I've yet to need more than a clean rag and just keep up with it. If you let it build up first you are going to have a tuff time...if you keep up with it with daily cleaning and wiping the gates down each reel (show, for platter types), it just doesn't build up enough to warrent solvents.

Simple green is pretty good stuff by the way but avoid spraying ANYTHING at the projector or putting so much on that it will drip/ooze beyond the surface being cleaned.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-05-2005, 01:07 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Simple green is pretty good stuff by the way but avoid spraying ANYTHING at the projector or putting so much on that it will drip/ooze beyond the surface being cleaned.

With this, then it would be a good idea to shoot the rag with the Simple Green first, then wipe down the machine. Like I would do when using the alcohol as well.

(sorry, Steve, once again, it was what I heard, not studied or read...)

-Monte

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-05-2005, 03:39 PM:

Monte, as I said, I generally have found that I do not need any solvent to keep a projector clean but when one inherits a filthy machine or is a service tech where time is of the essence, one needs something a bit more powerful.

I don't doubt you've had good results with your methods, I think you would find that pure Iso would do you better in those situations that you feel you need it...I would wear hand protection with either since even rubbing alcohol is an irritant with prolonged exposure, not to mention the absorbtion into your lungs and skin with prolonged use. All solvents should be thought of as a last resort, not a first line of attack...solvents almost always pose a health risk to contact with skin and with vapor inhalation.

I've noticed that those machines, particularly '70s era Simplexes (from NSS), seem to have white paint issues with repeated alcohol application...turns the paint a sickly gray over time.

I definately don't mean to be picking on you...it isn't my intent...you have touched off some of my personal pet-peeves though.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-06-2005, 01:07 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
I would wear hand protection with either since even rubbing alcohol is an irritant with prolonged exposure....

..and maybe this is the main reason for some circuits to abolish the use of alcohol. For, once again, if usage isn't under strict and proper control, illnesses and/or health situations do and can occur, the employees could ponder an insurance settlement by blaming the circuits in letting the substance be allowed on the premesises. And this is the last thing that circuits want to face.

Now, taking your practices with solvents and now looked up in Google about Isoprop Alcohol, I can realize now of your great concern of using this substance for cleaning purposes without using some sort of protection. For if abused, this substance can be quite deadly.

Thx Steve, for your reply and concern. I must confess to you that, in the beginning, I've never been trained in any professional manner, neither by any professional projectionists-union and/or non-union - even though I've worked in both atmospheres and still do a duty as a chief projectionist, technician and engineer to a small company who appreciates my talents in keeping their small circuit together.

Thus, I've done many things by learning on my own and developing my own procedures and picking up tips from other operators.

Please forgive me at times on some of my character shortcomings.

You might say, I also come here on FT to learn as much as possible, since I've had to learn from the books alone on a lot of things.

thx-Monte

Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 09-06-2005, 02:16 PM:

I use 91% alcohol which I purchase at Wal-Mart. I have very clean projectors and I have never had any rust or paint problems. I will not use 70% because of the rust risk. Film-Guard is often used as a substitute.

Posted by Joseph Pandolfi (Member # 223) on 09-06-2005, 08:28 PM:

I thought that I was the only one using FG for cleaning. Been using it for two years now in my weekly maintenance. Just a drop on a Q-tip is all it takes. It makes those Christie intermittants look brand new.

Posted by Olivia Coleman (Member # 3193) on 09-07-2005, 01:54 AM:

I forgot to mention that 'mini detail' I came up with!!! [Wink]

quote: Frank Angel
And Olivia, you can come work in my booth any day; sounds like you and your crew are consumate professionals.

I was trained by the booth manager who has 30+ years of experience. I'm also her assistant for a reason! [Big Grin]

quote: Monte L. Fullmer
Not to pick on Olivia's operation, but once again, she was trained well through the expertise of the REG Technical Services on how they want things to be at her location there in Bend, and she's doing her best to follow those things to the letter.

That and the fact that I was striving to become the assistant booth manager!!! [Wink]

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 09-07-2005, 01:59 PM:

I used to use Xecote, til it was no longer available.
Then when I got FilmGuard, I began using it to clean both the trap and rollers. It works quite well.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-07-2005, 05:52 PM:

I use FilmGuard, applied to the film according to the instructions on the enclosed leaflet and a clean shop rag. On occasion, when the projector needs an extra good cleaning I'll use a China Bristle paint brush or a Q-Tip. These are the only things I clean the projector with.

Maybe once or twice per year, I like to do a full "Take-Apart Cleaning". That's where I get out the vacuum cleaner and take off the shutter housing and open up the lamphouse. I get in there and carefully clean out the nooks and crannies. If I find some baked on crud that got missed on the regular cleanings I'll use one of the above mentioned cleaners in small amounts. (Just enough to to the job.)

The key is to clean the projector after EVERY run.

Keep a cleaning cloth on a shelf next to the projector. If you're working in a Megaplex, you can keep a cloth in your back pocket. Before you thread for the next show or after the last show of the night, take a half minute and wipe out the projector.

Yes, folks... It's THAT simple!

If kept clean from the get-go, a projector will need little or no solvents or liquids of any kind to get the dirt out. If you let it go for even one or two shows, the dirt will start to build up and you'll start to have problems.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-07-2005, 06:21 PM:

Me with a 2 inch tapered china bristle brush and a red shop rag in my back pocket at all times when I was working at my megaplexes. Sometimes, I'd forget to take them out when driving home...

..and alcohol to clean port glass windows. The bigger windows that I could reach across with, or outside standing on the back handicap area in the large houses, then a good ol dishsoap and water wash on the windows...

-Monte

Posted by Heath Dutton (Member # 3265) on 09-10-2005, 01:14 PM:

I personally like to use Filmguard, or the "CPI projector cleaner/lubricant". And I use Scott Box-of-rags (from Lowes or HomeDepot), which are basically high-quality lint-free disposables.

I have been told to NEVER EVER use alcohol on the projectors. I was told that even though it does evaporate quickly, some of the alcohol will creep into the crevices and will eventually cause rust in those places. Of course that is assuming you are using a good deal of alcohol, but it still sounds possible.

I have been told that a cheap and effective fluid is liquid WD-40 (not the arosol cans), since it comes in bulk and has no risk of rusting. But I would still stick to using FG for any part of the projector that comes in contact with the film, but I am planning on getting some of this stuff to save on FG.

Now, I know this is gonna sound crazy but I recently tried "magic erasers", and they did an amazing job without liquids at all, but of course there is no protective lubricant on the surface to prevent rust. On the other hand I haven't found ANYTHING that will clean a platter as brilliantly as one of these nifty things... Too bad they are so darn expensive.

As for flammability, I don't see the point of restricting things like alcohol. I would have to say it is the easiest substance in our booth to ignite, but it's flame is not nearly as hot as the red flame of Filmguard. Granted the FG has to have a great deal of oxygen to burn. It either has to be sprayed in a fine mist or mixed with rust to really burn, but when it does it is so pretty, and leaves the calming aroma of tiki torches.

er... not that I would know. [Big Grin]