Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: looking for tips on what to check to restart a v-5 projector

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Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 10-12-2005, 06:29 PM:

I am going to be firing up a V-5 projector in the morning that has stood idle for around 5 years. Does anyone have any tips for what I need to check over first. I have the manual and will look at the belts, dashpot oil, rollers and the like. What i am not sure of is if there is any hidden items I want want to look over before we fire it up. The xenon bulbs have also been in the lamps for the same time period so I am questionable about the condition they are in. They have been in a closed theater installed in place all this time. It will be a interesting morning.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-12-2005, 06:57 PM:

bulb might fire up, but I'd pull that bulb to be safe. Maybe change out the oil in the intermittent assembly for starters, where you've already did the belt check (and could be a smart thing to change those two belts while it's on your mind since they can dry out).

And, you can take the motor belt off and let the motor spin for a while with no load on it.

Also, check your oil points, especially the oil point for the scanner drum shaft. This would be a good idea to oil your points with the belts off and roll each shaft around manually to get the oil into the contact areas.

V-5's are fun to work on. - Monte

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-12-2005, 07:35 PM:

turn the machine over and make sure the shutter gear box is free
if it has a greese filler refill it
also change the belts if they have sat that long they will have a set to them that will probably break

Posted by Rick Long Jr (Member # 541) on 10-12-2005, 09:02 PM:

Mike, that picture is of a Vic-8, not a Vic-5. A much better machine.
DEFINITELY change the oil. Run it for a few hours, then change ot again, and you'll be fine. Some of the older motors themselves required periodic oiling. I can't see from the pic if this one does, but the motor will have two black indented caps at each end with a slot in it. If it has an RK-60 nameplate on it (These were only in Canada maybe??) you maybe lucky to have steel on steel shutter gears. If not, make damn sure the slow start timer or 2 position switch and associated components are working before you run with the belt omn the motor for the first time.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-12-2005, 09:21 PM:

True, I didn't see that. This is an "8" than a "5" with that extra sprocket cover plate above and to the right of the upper sprocket to run 70mm.

Then this thing is oil bath driven instead of fully belt drive (even though that thick belt runs the head from the motor) as with the V-5's.

Yep, get that oil changed.

-Monte

Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 10-12-2005, 09:32 PM:

I thought the V-8 was a 35/70 projector and these are 35 only it is in a old UA theater that was closed. So I will take both manauls with me in the morning. [Confused]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-12-2005, 10:05 PM:

Nope, there are both 35 and 35/70 versions. There is no question at all that it's not a V8.

Make sure you heed Rick's advice to remove the motor belt before starting for the first time to make sure the slow start is working (try a few starts, the pneumatic timers can be funky, hopefully it is equipped with something better) if you're not positive it has steel shutter gears (you can find out by taking the back cover off).

The belt should be replaced anyway... so check out the slow start when you're changing the belt.

If it's sitting in front of a large lamp you might also want to check to make sure the shutter itself isn't warped and hitting the water jacket cover (if equipped). You'll hear it tick when running -- it can damage the shutter gears, especially if they are fibre gears.

Posted by Rick Long Jr (Member # 541) on 10-12-2005, 10:26 PM:

I believe the 35mm only version of the Vic-8 was referred to as the Victoria-8r. Basically the same head with less elaborate water cooling and minus the upper sprocket shaft and other 70mm stuff. This one looks like a late 70's model - probably with steel on fiber (phenolic) gears. A good projector if cared for. As long as nothing breaks. These were assembled one at a time, and I know the early ones were a bitch trying to get a part from one machine to fit on another. The later ones had closer tolerences, so this was less of a problem. Still one of my favourite machines to run 70mm on.

BTW the motor looks to be a standard sealed bearing 3 phase Italian motor.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-12-2005, 10:57 PM:

..yet, you can see the inlet/outlet spigots below the shutter housing, implementing a water cooled trap area.

On theatre that I used to work at had these 8r's, with the 10k reel arms and the big 13k reel transport behind. The lamphouse was a side shooting 2.5k vertical shooting at a flat dicoated mirror to bounce the light through the trap. But the earlier model that I ran, didn't have that housing above the turret, yet the turret was motorized with the same 3phase configuration as the motor in this picture. Everything that motorized on that machine was 220v 3phase.

True, take care of these 8r's and they'll take care of you. The only downside of these machines is that the parts are extremely pricey. Even the exciter lamp will hit almost 50 bucks compared to the standard 4v9a variety of only 6 bucks.

Nice thing is that BACP has LED reader kits for these machines.

-Monte

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-13-2005, 10:25 AM:

There is a blower motor on the non operating side that on older ones requires oiling as well
Also the clearance between the shutter and the changeover housing is very tight so make sure that the shutter isn't hitting it from being heat warped

Posted by Andy Bergstrom (Member # 360) on 10-13-2005, 10:29 AM:

Be sure to clean the magnet and filter assembly located behind the sightglass located in the upper righthand corner when changing the oil. Be sure that the sightglass fills up with oil when the projector is running. Great machines.

Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 10-13-2005, 11:45 AM:

They are V-8R. I was there this morning and cleaned one up and it ran like a top and even thru a picture on the screen. Have a relay problem with the sound so the sound did not work but that looks to be a minor problem. Otherwise they were quiet and ran great.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-13-2005, 07:45 PM:

I'd be very inclined to re-start a VIC-5 with a 30.06 or a shot gun... thats about the best thing you could do for one... put it out of its misery! As for the VIC 8 its one of the best machines out there and everlasting....

Mark

Posted by Rick Long Jr (Member # 541) on 10-13-2005, 10:18 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
..yet, you can see the inlet/outlet spigots below the shutter housing, implementing a water cooled trap area.

35/70 Vic-8's had water jackets not only around the trap like this head, but also around the inside of the entire shutter housing. The in/outs were in the same place, but there's another water line that runs under the housing toward the back, and they provided clean-outs in the shutter housing.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 10-17-2005, 04:12 PM:

Vic 5's are great little machines, have ran a few that give just as steady picture as a Kinoton FP20/30/40 or Century.

Yes Vic 8's are one of the most easy to lace machines for 70 and damn good at 35mm.

Re-your re-start of the old machine, probably worth cahngint hte rear cover gasket at some point, Be carfull not to overtighten the cover allen bolts as the threads seem to give up mighty quick, most tof the mechs i have serviced have at least 2 bolts that just wont tighten fully and just spin.

Get an inverter for the machine ASAP and the Vic 8 will last another 30 years.

Darren

Cinemeccanica rule, (I know that will start a huge rant from you americans!) whats wrong with europe, Europe gave us the DP70!

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-17-2005, 06:36 PM:

V5's are good value for money, but you can't seriously compare them to the Phillips/Kinoton FP20/30, or the Westar/Century, can you?! I service one of the earliest V5 in the UK, it's not THAT old, yet some parts are an issue, it never gave a super steady image, even when new. Sound performance is also a wee bit lacking, it's passable, especially in this day and age of digital, but I've rarely come across a V5 where both channels focus in the same place, you almost always have to compromise one channel to peak the other. It's also rather maintenance heavy. Don't get me wrong it's a perfectly good machine for the average operation, where at installation the only real consideration is one of cost. I doubt greatly you'll find Vic 5s at 40+ years old still giving a more than good enough performance.

Now the Victoria 8, that is a whole different ball game, and price tag, up there with the DP70. Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-17-2005, 10:41 PM:

V5s are maintenance heavy? Compared to what? Other than the odd gear box exploding, there's not much to them to go wrong, or maintain.

Now speaking of V8s and drive controllers, I wonder how fast one of those'll go before causing themselves excessive wear or self destructing. Some of those four feature nights run a little too long...

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-18-2005, 05:08 AM:

The gearbox is one thing, and granted they last a fair while, but the ones I service, we are very often changing belts. The automation system (the factory fitted one), is dreadfully unreliable, and guess what?! No manual override, if the PLC, or the PSU is dead, you cannot run the machine manually. The microswitches associated with the change-over and speed Watt-Governor are another source of trouble, they wear with time, and have to replaced, but they have to be very carefully aligned, or the thing will shut down the instant the change-over opens. I also see a lot of oil leaks, mainly from the intermittent input/output shafts, have had one where the gasket continually failed, the reason being that the mating surfaces weren't flat!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-18-2005, 05:41 AM:

quote: Pete Naples
...but the ones I service, we are very often changing belts.

Are the site projectionists not capable of doing that themselves? At every V5 site I worked all maintenance was done in-house apart from A-chain issues. Changing two rubber bands while keeping the red dots in the right place hardly calls for a PhD in astrophysics.

As for the shutter gearboxes, sales of spares must be a nice little earner for Cinemeccanica.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-18-2005, 05:46 AM:

Yeah the guys do it themselves, or I do it if I happen to find one needs changing when I'm there. Recetnly you can buy the gearbox internals, so now we overhaul them in the workshop. Still a nice little earner for all concerned!

Posted by Dan Harris (Member # 1759) on 10-18-2005, 05:52 AM:

Is the "factory" automation different from the Vector 500 option? Or is it the same internal electronics?

We had a few Vector problems when ours were installed, one turned out to be a faulty PLC, one a faulty control panel, (and a faulty FM-35, but thats not Cinemeccanicas fault!), however, had no problems just flipping the Auto/Man switch and running them manually. However, these problems were all on 11-year old machines retrofitted with the new automation, havn't had any problems on three new machines.

The only problem we've ever had is with the gearbox, however, that was when our company would only pay to replace them with reconditioned units. Once we had changed them out for brand new units, never a further problem.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-18-2005, 06:09 AM:

I'm talking about factory fit Vector 1000, the 500 does offer proper manual control. First time I came up against one with a dead automation, I was utterly gobsmacked to find you can't run the thing in manual.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-18-2005, 04:15 PM:

That indeed is a flaw with the automation. I'll even give you the input/output shaft leaks on some machines which are minor compared to say, a Super Simplex (wall, floor and ceiling automatic rust inhibitor). However, I still can't agree that they're heavy on maintenance.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-18-2005, 04:21 PM:

Daryl. I'm not asking you to agree, that's the whole point of a discussion forum! Let me put it another way, compared to the amount of maintenance that operators carry out on the Westar or Century machines (also common round here), the Victoria 5 requires more regular attention to keep it running well. The Super Simplex is not common here, so I can't possibly comment on its oil leaks, the Vic 5s leak more than 40 year old Westars, I've also found some with horrendous casting defects (I've got a picture somewhere, I'll post it up if can find it). On the whole they seem to be getting worse, the older ones require less TLC than 2-3 year old machines, but I think that's true of most makers. Like I said before they do offer good value for money, I once heard them referred to as the 'Ford Escorts' of the industry, everybody has them, everybody complains about them, but still buys another one.