Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: I got an amp for the home theatre!

This is topic I got an amp for the home theatre! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-18-2005, 07:34 PM:

What do you think of this?

KinTek stuff:

a KT-1003 stereo processor,
a Digimate 1100 quad amplifier,
and a KT-1045 monitor/exciter power supply.

I looked thru the manuals, and figured I'd find manuals. Alas... No manuals.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-18-2005, 07:39 PM:

Nothing great there, unless you got it for free, and maybe not even then .... I may have a manual; have to check. Is that the processor that needed an external PC board (had a D9 connector)for set up?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 10-18-2005, 08:13 PM:

Wow, do I ever remember Kintek. Unreliable, not as good audio as Dolby and cost more as well. Louis

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-18-2005, 08:19 PM:

Hmm. I've heard KinTek stories from our tech. My theatre has a bunch of them, but are being replaced projector by projector.

Trust me. This amplifier will never be overloaded in my house.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-18-2005, 11:51 PM:

Crapaplex Odeon used TONS of those Kintek units for their mono houses.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-19-2005, 06:49 AM:

What is the BIG problem with this equipment?

John W: I do need a manual.

Another question: When were these units built?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-19-2005, 02:56 PM:

[QUOTEWhat is the BIG problem with this equipment? [/QUOTE]

At least 97.698% of all the requipment Kintek prodiced has died more than once.... The worst of all were the exciter supplies! I reccomend that you fuse your speakers!

I once put one of those amps out of its misery at the rifle range [thumbsup]

.

Mark

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-20-2005, 07:38 AM:

Sorry, Bruce. I checked the manual pile, but no KT-1003. I do have a KT-800 processor and a KT-60 subwoofer manual, which you are welcome to if they are close.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-20-2005, 07:55 AM:

Thank you for looking, John. I'll keep looking.

KinTek: Bad soldering? Bad designs? Underrated parts? Whats the real problem?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-20-2005, 08:15 AM:

quote: Bruce McGee
KinTek: Bad soldering? Bad designs? Underrated parts? Whats the real problem?

All of the above really. They were either a part of DBX or owned by DBX or it might have been the other way round... what ever it was we had just as much trouble with DBX back when I worked in HI-Fi repair in the early 70's....

MArk

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-20-2005, 09:48 AM:

I beleieve they were all part of Unisync back then
those kintek digmate plug in amps were a marvel of engineering when they worked [Smile]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-20-2005, 06:37 PM:

Gord, You mean that we'd marvel at them IF THEY WORKED..... very little stuff that company produced actually worked right out of the box.... I can remember one friend that worked for UA and had installed a bunch of the center/surround units in a complex and only two out of 8 worked.

Mark

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-20-2005, 06:39 PM:

I look forward to seeing what this set-up will do. If it dies, well, look what I have invested in it.

The home theatre sound system basically sucks at this point. All consumer stereo equipment. Has never sounded very good, and really sounds bad when projecting stereo prints. Has a very hollow sound. I'm slowly aquiring sound loops. I got a 6K loop the other day. I also have a new 'slit' lens. New one has a very fine slit compared to the old original.

EDIT: Mark, you replied while I was writing. Reminds me of old early solid state TV's. Our repair shop went thru a spell of new TV's dead out of the box.

If nothing else, I can troubleshoot the KinTeks... if a manual pops up for it...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-20-2005, 08:10 PM:

There was a manual in one of the Cineplex booths in the Boise/Nampa area a number of years back. Perhaps Monte could nose around and see if its still there....

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-21-2005, 02:25 AM:

Yea, I think that I know were these manuals are since our storerooms are loaded with these Kintek monsters that were taken out when we converted all of the mono houses to stereo. I'll let you know when I get there Friday and pass the note down the pipe.

thx-Monte

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 12-04-2005, 09:15 AM:

I now have a complete manual for this unit. I have it hooked up to a set of Advent speakers. Running non-sync with a cassette deck, it sounds good.

I am going to go through it and resolder board connections. Kintek seems to have been a bit chitzy with the solder in 1987. I cant see any replaced parts on it either.

75 watts per channel. This should be interesting. Sorry you guys dont like it.

Posted by Tom Sauter (Member # 616) on 12-04-2005, 10:17 AM:

They do sound pretty good, IMO, but the connectors on the backs of the modules weren't durable. Serviced a few where a good whack got the poor solder connections working again, though I know of one where interior started corroding because the theater owner kept his unvented washer/dryer in the booth [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-04-2005, 10:32 AM:

quote: Bruce McGee
now have a complete manual for this unit. I have it hooked up to a set of Advent speakers. Running non-sync with a cassette deck, it sounds good.

WOW! As I enter the McGee family "Way Back Machine".... You still have a pair that actually play....... that stiff sure takes me waaaay back to the early 70's! I would have thought that most of the drivers in them have desintegrated by now.

Did Kintek actually use ANY solder at all on them?? Really....?

Mark

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-04-2005, 11:15 AM:

There's not much scarier out there than walking into your booth for the first time and seeing a yellow rack... or were the components yellow?.... BOTH? [Eek!]

4 channels of amp... one worked. We never did plug in the magic pseudo stereo generator... no guts! In any case, the place had an early Ultra Stereo box in it... also fun.

By the time we opened the place up, the rack had a lot less yellow in it.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-04-2005, 12:08 PM:

But howdy! Yellow racks in a booth send shivers dowwn my back [uhoh]

. Oddly enough.... the Stereophonizer was the one part that actually worked really well and had a fairly complex comb filter arrangment for stripping the audio for the l&r channels. Many are still in use today. They must have used actual real solder on those boards since I've still yet to run into one that didn't work.

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-04-2005, 02:07 PM:

Mark: you are right about the comb filters. Also, we sold a number of KT-24 which adds surrounds with a noise gate and a filter that "looks" for voice waveforms. In the waning days of mono; this added a lot to certain "mad slasher" movies. (Surround became louder and louder until someone spoke; reality collapsed bck to the screen.)

(I had a full rack of yellow Kintek in my bedroom for a while in the late 70's for evaluation. Sources were TV and AM radio. The traffic copter on am had blades and engine on left channel and voice in center.) Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-04-2005, 05:02 PM:

The original KT-21, KT-22 and KT-24s were not bad units and certainly were the best by far in the psudo-stereo class.

The KT-24, as Louis pointed out, is where the dialogue recognition came into play...it was this unit via interconnect cable that allowed dialogue steering.

The KT-21 if used no greater than 20% and often just 10% expansion would really clean up a noisey track without adding any noticable pumping. It was the KT-22...the Stereo-Phoney-Izer that I disliked the most...it was essentially just a set of comb filters to break up the spectrum to the left and right channels to get a wider image.

The KT-24 was the real marvel...its ability to select between music and dialogue was very cool indeed.

The KT-700 series had the essential elements of the originals but I never thought they did as well and their build quality was absolutely horrible.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-04-2005, 10:24 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
It was the KT-22...the Stereo-Phoney-Izer that I disliked the most...it was essentially just a set of comb filters to break up the spectrum to the left and right channels to get a wider image.

I don't think any of us agree that the use of the Stereo Phonyizer is the right thing to do but the Kintek did the best of the units of its time, much better than the USL did, the Kintek did have far more sophisticated comb filters. It definately adds some life to a dull 16mm track.....

As for the Expander/noise reduction unit, I never heard one that would work correctly on any print. There was either some noise or some pumping heard... no happy medium there. Its was based on the DBX system and if the film was not encoded inversly it is something that just cannot work correctly and is completely touch and go throughout any given film alas DBX was an encode/decode system just like Dolby.

Mark

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-04-2005, 10:41 PM:

So Bruce, I'm glad you found a manual for your system...I hope it helps since a lot of the posts here are of NO help to you! [Razz]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-05-2005, 06:18 AM:

Mark,

The KT-21 was based on the dbx "3BX" that was popular with records. While the KT-21 did have "noise reduction" switches...we only ever used the "3bx Academy" button. at this point...it is a single-ended expander that divided the spectrum into three ranges with different attack and release rates.

If you kept it in the 3BX mode, and kept the expansion under 20% (less than 1.2), then you could successfuly reduce the noise, increase the dynamic range without adding pumping. In fact, the first "yellow box" variety of KT-21s offered up to 50% expansion. Later ones had a silver overlay that reduced the maximum to 30%. By the time the KT-700 came out, you had just a choice of 10 or 20%. For the KT-700...NEVER go beyond 10% or you will hear pumping unless it is a very old track with near zero dynamic range.

Posted by Tom Sauter (Member # 616) on 12-05-2005, 07:16 AM:

I sorta remember that converting a KT-1003 house to LED with a reverse scan kit was problematic, either there was an impedance mismatch or the processor itself was already DOA. Quite a hair-pulling experience, not exactly the type of unit you could just trace live circuits on.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-05-2005, 12:34 PM:

I also found the 3bx handy also good on magnetic tracks as well