Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Recommendations for 16mm format lens

This is topic Recommendations for 16mm format lens in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Alain LeTourneau (Member # 2175) on 10-31-2005, 05:25 PM:

I'm curious what the experts on this list think is the *best* lens for the 16mm format? Not certain if some longer lenses perform better than shorter ones, so give me your thoughts.

For mounting on Eiki 6100/9100, Elmo LX series, Kinoton FP16/18, or Eastman 25.

Alain LeTourneau

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-31-2005, 05:31 PM:

This isn't even a close call. The ISCO Vario-Kiptaron 20-60mm (not to be confused by its cheaper cousin 35-65mm).

The Eiki mount version is part number 481.30
The Elmo mount version is part number 481.01
The Kinoton mount version is part number 481.11

Note, the Kinoton and Eiki mounts are the same diameter (42.5mm) but the Eiki version has the ribs to allow focus, the Kinoton version is smooth...an Eiki will work in a Kinoton.

This lens is better than ANY fixed focal length lens I've ever tried for 16mm...including some pretty high-dollar 35mm format lenses.

They are special order only though...sometimes it can be a pain getting a price quote.

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 10-31-2005, 07:00 PM:

Steve, is the Isco you quoted even better than a fixed-focal-length Schneider Cine-Xenon? I've found the Schnieders to be a vast improvement over the crappy standard Eiki lenses and pretty hard to beat.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-31-2005, 07:39 PM:

Yes, absolutely...it is even better than the Schneider Super Cinelux or the ISCO Ultra Star...I don't know why...it just seems to be blessed.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 11-01-2005, 08:59 AM:

I'm sure you're right, Steve, but there was a guy in LA selling NIB Super Cinelux Schneiders last year for $300 and I just couldn't resist. What a step up from a standard Eiki lens, which I assume must actually be a Kowa, or something similar.

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 11-01-2005, 07:20 PM:

IIRC, new Cine-Xenons for 16mm projectors list somewhere in the neighborhood of $1800. [Eek!]

When I saw what the guy in LA was offering for his Schneiders, I just couldn't resist either and added a few from him to my collection. The quality to price ratio in this circumstance was just impossible to ignore. Tests of one of the Scheniders against an equivalent Eiki lens using a loop of 16-PA (RP-82) just proved how worthwhile the Schneiders were.

Factory Eiki lenses from the 1970s were Kowa (not-so-)Super Prominars. In the 1980s, the lenses appeared the same, but only the Eiki logo appeared on the lenses. Could be that either Kowa OEM'd the lenses or Eiki bought the Kowa plant.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-02-2005, 11:50 AM:

$300 on a Schneider is a steal...it isn't a bad lens at all...in fact, it was the Schneider Cinlux Ultra line in the appropriate barrel.

Posted by Amanda Mundin (Member # 3386) on 11-02-2005, 02:52 PM:

Does the ISCO Vario-Kiptaron 20-60mm fit a Fumeo X900 too?
Out of interest will this lens cover super16?
Also are there any lenses that drop down to 16-17mm also for the 16mm Fumeo X900?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-02-2005, 07:27 PM:

If I'm not mistaken, the Fumeo also uses the 42.5mm lens barrel...if so then yes.

I've used the lens for Super-16 without any problems.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-02-2005, 07:39 PM:

The Fumeo is a 42.5mm lens mount the focus is by a spline that engages the edges of the lens
If the lens barrel is smooth it is a bit jumpy getting it focused

Posted by Alain LeTourneau (Member # 2175) on 11-03-2005, 09:13 PM:

Thanks to all who responded to my query.

A recap...

Dream lens - ISCO Kiptaron 20-60mm (Steve Guttag)*.

Runner up for those on a budget (like myself) -
Schneider Super-Cinelux (Jeff Taylor, Jon Miller), with Steve Guttag adding that the Super-Cinelux is actually the Cinelux Ultra in a different barrel.

Questions:

(1) What's the price of the ISCO you mention Steve? This can off course be repsonded to offlist if I'm violating any rules of the forum - info@40frames.org.

(2) Is there a good lens (new or otherwise) that can be found in the $500-1000 range?

*Note: I have 2 of the cheaper ISCO 35-65, and while they may not be the quality of what is mentioned above they were certinly an improvement over the Eiki lenses I was using prior.

Alain LeTourneau

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 11-04-2005, 12:21 AM:

Be very careful when choosing lenses for the 16mm Fumeo. The lens mount is very long, and there are likely to be problems getting the lens close enough to the film to focus. We managed to deal with this by machining about 12mm from the front of the lens mount, which left the focusing pinion intact. I think we had to shift a leaf spring to the other end of the mount, but it worked fine. It was a better option than trying to machine the step off the front of the lens barrel.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-04-2005, 06:01 AM:

Alain,

The Schneider 16mm lens was never termed "Super-Cinelux". They were always from the Cinelux-Ultra line. The "Super" line of Cinelux lenses were what came after and are current today (When Schneider terms a lens "SC"...they mean Super-Cinelux).

The 16mm lenses were mady by takeing the lens section out of the 70.6mm (or 62.5mm barrel and screwing them into the 42.5mm barrel. In fact, Schneider in the USA would keep spare 42.5mm lens barrels and make the change at the time of order when the Cinelux Ultra lenses were available.

I am trying to get a current price on the Vario-Kiptaron 20-60 (called for a quote yesterday)...I'll email you the price when I have it. It will likely top $1000. The 20-60mm version of the Vario-Kiptaron is about 10-times better than the 35-65 version, no joke.

The Schneider lenses are no slouch though...very good for 16mm. I think we sold a ton of them (mostly 35mm focal length) before moving onto the ISCO (and Schneider discontinued the Ultra line in favor of the Super-Cinelux, which could not be adapted to a 42.5mm barrel).

Posted by Alain LeTourneau (Member # 2175) on 11-04-2005, 07:21 PM:

What lens mount does the Eastman 25 use, or does a mount have to be machined specifically for this projector?

Alain LeTourneau