Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: replacement reels: who pays?

This is topic replacement reels: who pays? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007604

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 11-11-2005, 05:37 AM:

from skimming through old threads, it looks like reel replacement due to lab errors are normally a routine matter, and free to the theater. ditto for used films damaged at a previous theater. also, reporting damage to the distributor is the proper procedure regardless, so it may be tracked and hopefully prevented.

today i was told some things by various people:

...that if you request too many reel replacements, the distributor won't take your complaints seriously any more (cry-wolf scenario).

...that if you replace a reel damaged by another theater, you will be charged unless the previous theater reported damage (presumption of guilt).

what's the real story here? i get the impression some of you guys do quite a lot of reel replacement for various reasons. i've asked for them because of scratches, fogging, significant redeveloper splotches. sometimes they come, sometimes they don't. i think i've replaced maybe 5 or 6 reels (have to check) the last 2 years. is that a lot for a triple?

i requested a replacement reel 2 of jarhead due to some severe haphazard scratching on the right side of the image for a few seconds during one of the many very bright scenes. (this was a new print.) was this an unreasonable request?

carl

Posted by Cory Isemann (Member # 2517) on 11-11-2005, 08:58 AM:

quote: Carl Martin
was this an unreasonable request?

IMHO, requesting a replacement reel for a new print is never unreasonable.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 11-11-2005, 11:54 AM:

...and we have been billed for replacement reels from Universal on several occasions for lab-new reels with bad SRD or SDDS tracks. [Mad]

-Aaron

Posted by John McConnel (Member # 2000) on 11-11-2005, 12:46 PM:

We received one reel of Universal's SEABISCUIT with a defective SRD soundtrack. They overnighted a replacement reel at their expense.

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 11-11-2005, 01:02 PM:

With ETS, usually, the depot informs us if replacement reels aren't stocked for opening day. I was under the impression that when they receive the reels there are a number of extra reels for replacement stock.

Technicolor must work in a similar way, I hope its all figured into the release budget.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-11-2005, 03:30 PM:

The "cry wolf" scenario more often than not points a finger at crappy or poorly maintained and aligned equipment. If someone is routinely rejecting reels for "bad SRD tracks", then odds are their reader needs some work. In this case I don't have a problem with the studio billing the theater for the reel provided if A-they give the purchased roll of film back to the theater (every theater can use a random reel of something for testing/training purposes) and B-it really IS a legitimate bill. I have seen times when a reel of film that really did have a lab defect in it was billed to the theater as having no defect. NO SIR! Send me that freakin' reel back and I will PROVE it to you!!! I'm not against spending an hour or two collecting data proving a reel of film is legitimately defective and shoving it back into the studio's face (and of course, posting the entire thing on the front page here [evil]

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 11-11-2005, 07:12 PM:

Earlier this week we've ordered a replacement R1 for UIP's "The Constant Gardener", because they've gone el-cheapo and given us a used print.

I just heard today the reason we don't have the reel yet, is UIP are (apparently) having it made specially in Rome (Technicolor, presumably).

I sincerely hope we're not billed for it, I imagine it won't be cheap for a "one-off".

Alex.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-11-2005, 07:50 PM:

Hi, Carl;

As always, the exact particulars vary from studio to studio, and, e.g., not all Techicolor-served studios are the same.

That being said, we're a non-theatrical (basically 2nd-run timeframe) and we have never been billed for a replacement, and we probably replace 10 prints in a year.

What is frequently an issue is whether we're billed for shipping on the replacement (generally not for TES, sometimes for ETS (depends on studio!), also depending on whether it is local to the depot or they need to courier a new print from LA or something).

Based on my experience with Technicolor, and high-level talks with them (when Brad and I visited), I can say with some assurance that they will not penalize you for over-complaining. Of course, in some (non-TES) cases, it may be up to your buyer/booker to manage replacements, and human factors issues are always at play.

It is especially important to report damage as soon as the print arrives, and preferably before your playdate starts. This makes it pretty clear to the exchange/studio that you did not do the damage (or if you did, you did it while you were inspecting for damage or pre-screening, which is a lot less likely).

In our case, we push hard to get early deliveries (even to the point of advancing the playdate) so that we have time to get replacements if necessary.

No, requesting a replacement reel because of haphazard scratching is not unreasonable, even if it is only a few seconds long. But tell the person you're requesting the replacement through what the damage is.

For instance in TES-land, they will ask you if the print is playable, and then they will contact the studio to confirm the replacement and pass that information along (assuming available prints). The studio may decline, and may be more likely to decline if the print you have is playable. And really, that's their decision. If they think 30 seconds of scratching on a single reel is not worth replacement, well, it is their movie. But I encourage you to give them the chance to say that it is worth it.

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-11-2005, 08:09 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
The studio may decline, and may be more likely to decline if the print you have is playable. And really, that's their decision. If they think 30 seconds of scratching on a single reel is not worth replacement, well, it is their movie. But I encourage you to give them the chance to say that it is worth it.

And that my friends is when you immediately move the offending print into your smallest auditorium in rebuttle for letting the studio damage YOUR presentation! Bonus points go to managers who instruct their box office personnel to warn moviegoers that the movie isn't very good and they should go see X movie instead.

Yes I have done both. If the studio doesn't give a crap about my presentation, I don't give a crap about their movie. It's very cut and dry.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-12-2005, 02:07 AM:

also remeber before moving a print there may be a booking decision that has been made bysomeone higherup and that may not be alterable by the individual theatre

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 11-12-2005, 02:37 AM:

My latest was having to order a replacement R1 for North Country because there were ink blotches all over it, making it look like the bulb was flickering when it was not. The replacement reel I got in was a used reel that a very bad projectionist handled. First, it had several trailers still on it, with each one attached by masking tape. Next, it was on a broken reel, and finally the tail had a foot worth of frames cut off as an ID marker.

Not exactly what I was hoping for when I ordered the replacement, especially since the film had just come out at the time.

Posted by Ross Oba (Member # 3433) on 11-12-2005, 02:50 AM:

Anyone have problems with Zathura? The print we received looked like it went through a tornado. Every reel was broken and the 5th reel had damage to the sprocket holes near the tail. Just was wondering if this was an isolated incident. BTW, it came in the single box rather than the cans.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 11-12-2005, 03:07 AM:

we don't have a problem with bad digital tracks. i do recall one print with a couple reels that kept dropping out (during the test screening). we didn't replace, but made a point of keeping that one in our analog house as much as possible.

no, when i've gotten replacement reels, it's been because of definite lab damage. i have asked for reels, even a new print once, for damaged used films, but always been denied.

it's a bit convoluted, in that i tell my manager, who tells the city office, who talks to tes/whoever. so i don't really know where along the line the hangup is. i do know that in this latest instance, it was not brought to tes's attention.

jarhead is from universal. as per aaron, maybe they are a little more bill-happy about this stuff?

we almost always get our prints on thursdays and screen that night, so any problem will carry over at to at least the first public show.

jhawk, thanks for your usual in-depth response. i actually was in lsc back in spring 1997, but just ushered. how long have you been there?

carl